Most expensive city to live in

[dubu]

^ those aerent usualy cities you would think that will make your life better moving to them. i guess your right, real life is way diferent then the digital world. theres no rules, you can remake the game quake 2 and make it better if you want. if you want to do anything irl it will take at least 20 years if your lucky.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yup. If I were to move to CA, I would easily prefer LA/OC over Bay Area. But it seems like the professional job market is much better in the Bay Area.

Well yeah, the 2-earner family earns nearly 2x more in SF than LA on average.

2018 CA Counties by Median Family Income, 2-Earners:
$189,493 San Francisco
$188,125 Marin
$186,107 San Mateo
$184,299 Santa Clara
$158,310 Alameda
$141,584 Contra Costa
$124,094 Orange
$113,405 San Diego
$112,583 Ventura
$97,253 Los Angeles
$96,056 Riverside
$91,305 San Bernardino

[niwell]

Honestly probably places like Mumbai or Lagos, if you take local salaries into consideration.

[The Chemist]

Singapore is definitely the most expensive city I've ever been to, with Paris and Hong Kong a close second and third.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

The hardest? I highly doubt that. Out of the English-speaking countries America probably has the best opportunity to find a balance of cost-of-living, career, and lifestyle that fits each person's needs.

Living in Canada and working in my field I dont really have a choice but to live in Toronto (not that I dont love it). Unless there was some one-in-a-million type of job opportunity that popped up in Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, etc. I would probably be setting my career back a fair bit by relocating. I feel like Australia would pretty much be Melbourne or Sydney. The UK is London or bust for most professional services.

The U.S.'s most desirable cities are definitely expensive, but so are the aformentioned premier cities in most other developed countries. The difference is there are fewer Denvers, Salt Lake Cities, Charlotte's, Columbus's, etc. Where you can still make great money in an affordable city.

With some exceptions for master-planned government centers, new cities dont really get built anywhere. Not sure where you would stick a brand new city in the continental U.S. that wouldnt already be developed if it made economic sense.

Your point is probably applicable to just about any country that isn't the U.S., China, or the E.U.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Singapore is definitely the most expensive city I've ever been to, with Paris and Hong Kong a close second and third.

Interesting. Paris felt affordable to me, relative to New York.

[dimondpark]

2018 50 Largest US Cities by Median Income, 2-Earner Families:
$189,493 San Francisco, CA
$182,594 Washington, DC
$161,164 Seattle, WA
$160,121 San Jose, CA
$139,971 Oakland, CA
$134,996 Atlanta, GA
$123,725 Austin, TX
$121,415 Boston, MA
$120,240 San Diego, CA
$119,407 Portland, OR
$115,879 Denver, CO
$113,582 Minneapolis, MN
$108,167 Chicago, IL
$107,273 Raleigh, NC
$104,786 Virginia Beach, FL
$103,759 Charlotte, NC
$103,416 Tampa, FL
$103,188 New York, NY
$101,181 Sacramento, CA
$100,821 New Orleans, LA
$98,041 Baltimore, MD
$95,486 Kansas City, MO
$93,282 Philadelphia, PA
$92,638 Nashville, TN
$92,130 Long Beach, CA
$91,552 Omaha, NE
$91,077 Los Angeles, CA
$89,855 Las Vegas, NV
$88,894 Louisville, KY
$88,877 Fort Worth, TX
$88,264 Colorado Springs, CO
$88,032 Oklahoma City, OK
$87,847 Phoenix, AZ
$86,603 Arlington, TX
$85,839 Indianapolis, IN
$85,460 Jacksonville, FL
$85,027 Columbus, OH
$83,236 Dallas, TX
$83,134 Albuquerque, NM
$82,963 Mesa, AZ
$82,414 Tulsa, OK
$82,123 Houston, TX
$78,376 San Antonio, TX
$76,992 Fresno, CA
$75,606 Memphis, TN
$74,473 Milwaukee, WI
$70,160 Miami, FL
$68,575 Tucson, AZ
$65,767 El Paso, TX
$61,319 Detroit, MI

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Interesting. Paris felt affordable to me, relative to New York.

Paris real estate, and eating out, is definitely less expensive than NYC. Actually Paris eating out seems less expensive than, say, Ohio (though hard to compare because difference with portion size, ingredients and labor). But I don't think Paris has comparable professional salaries as in the U.S.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Paris real estate, and eating out, is definitely less expensive than NYC. Actually Paris eating out seems less expensive than, say, Ohio (though hard to compare because difference with portion size, ingredients and labor). But I don't think Paris has comparable professional salaries as in the U.S.

I must have been eating at the wrong restaurants when I was in Paris then, because I was never able to have a meal for less than 25 euro when I was there, and it was usually 30+ (with only one drink, either wine or beer).

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

I must have been eating at the wrong restaurants when I was in Paris then, because I was never able to have a meal for less than 25 euro when I was there, and it was usually 30+ (with only one drink, either wine or beer).

In a sit-down restaurant in, say, Columbus, Ohio, wouldn't one person almost always pay $30+ for a complete dinner with wine?

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yup. If I were to move to CA, I would easily prefer LA/OC over Bay Area. But it seems like the professional job market is much better in the Bay Area.

LA is cool, but the Bay Area has a better high-end job market.

[SLO]

While $189,493 household income would be very good in most places, in San Francisco its not good.

[10023]

Probably somewhere like Oslo. A coffee is like $7 up there. After all it’s a Northern European petro-state with high incomes and high taxes.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by SLO

While $189,493 household income would be very good in most places, in San Francisco its not good.

Well it's much more realistic for SF and most other cities to look at dual earner incomes than simple median household income.

2018 50 Largest US Cities by Median Household Income:
$113,036 San Jose, CA
$112,376 San Francisco, CA
$93,481 Seattle, WA
$85,203 Washington, DC
$79,646 San Diego, CA
$77,059 Virginia Beach, VA
$76,469 Oakland, CA
$73,092 Portland, OR
$71,834 Boston, MA
$71,543 Austin, TX
$68,337 Denver, CO
$65,695 Raleigh, NC
$65,345 Atlanta, GA
$65,331 Colorado Springs, CO
$65,046 Sacramento, CA
$63,799 New York, NY
$63,590 Minneapolis, MN
$63,091 Arlington, TX
$62,474 Los Angeles, CA
$61,610 Long Beach, CA
$60,764 Charlotte, NC
$60,324 Nashville, TN
$59,266 Omaha, NE
$58,448 Fort Worth, TX
$58,247 Mesa, AZ
$57,957 Phoenix, AZ
$57,238 Chicago, IL
$54,599 Tampa, FL
$54,372 Kansas City, MO
$54,269 Jacksonville, FL
$53,973 Oklahoma City, OK
$53,575 Las Vegas , NV
$52,971 Columbus, OH
$52,303 Louisville, KY
$52,210 Dallas, TX
$51,203 Houston, TX
$51,019 Albuquerque, NM
$51,000 Baltimore, MD
$49,813 Fresno, CA
$49,024 San Antonio, TX
$47,678 Indianapolis, IN
$47,583 Tulsa, OK
$46,116 Philadelphia, PA
$45,031 El Paso, TX
$43,676 Tucson, AZ
$42,087 Milwaukee, WI
$41,818 Miami, FL
$38,423 New Orleans, LA
$37,199 Memphis, TN
$31,283 Detroit, MI

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Interesting. Paris felt affordable to me, relative to New York.

Because you're from the US. It reminds me of a guy from SF I received here for some 10 days, when I lived in a studio of the 6th arrondissement. The guy was on a business trip and a buddy of my elder brother, so I lent my studio to him and his girlfriend, so they wouldn't have to pay for any hotel or anything rental.
We took care of them and were like - are you guys ok? Not missing anything? They told us they were fine. It wouldn't actually feel too overpriced to them. Their pockets were full cash! Lol, just in case...

But it feels different to ourselves, say PPP-wise. The city is very expensive to us, partly because we have to pay for the heavy social contributions of our social system. For example, for our healthcare and pension systems.
I think it is generally fair because it won't leave anybody to any real severe difficulty. Some call it Socialist, while it's actually social democracy. Frankly, I'd rather simply see it as our Christian heritage. You don't let the poor die from sickness or their kids away from decent schools when you're a genuine Christian. That's my personal point of view about this.
I'm only concerned about the management of the overall system. Given the tremendous costs of it, and what we all have to pay to maintain it, it certainly could be more effective, but the French administration has gradually spoiled it by an outrageous amount of so called red tape. That's too bad because it makes it less credible than it really should be.

Anyway, yes, Paris is pretty overpriced to its own dwellers. Maybe not so much to New Yorkers or folks from CA, because you guys enjoy higher incomes, but suffer from a rather broken down social system at the same time.

[kool maudit]

Copenhagen was up there. Stockholm is similar, but a bit easier. Helps to have some DKK income streams given SEK right now, though.

[dimondpark]

Apart from SF, Atlanta, Seattle and DC always post super high numbers for city-level upper income stats.

2018 50 Largest US Cities by Average Household Income, Top 5%:
$808,105 San Francisco, CA
$663,082 Atlanta, GA
$609,166 Seattle, WA
$595,669 Washington, DC
$575,446 San Jose, CA
$568,281 New York, NY
$553,402 Oakland, CA
$533,316 Boston, MA
$515,711 Los Angeles, CA
$494,306 Dallas, TX
$486,480 Austin, TX
$479,737 Denver, CO
$479,344 Charlotte, NC
$477,994 San Diego, CA
$476,882 Chicago, IL
$463,803 Tampa, FL
$452,152 Minneapolis, MN
$439,131 Miami, FL
$436,124 Portland, OR
$434,652 Houston, TX
$431,675 Las Vegas, NV
$429,329 Raleigh, NC
$412,518 Virginia Beach, VA
$411,500 Omaha, NE
$409,738 Nashville, TN
$387,864 Tulsa, OK
$386,149 Jacksonville, FL
$373,367 Fort Worth, TX
$371,468 Baltimore, MD
$364,352 New Orleans, LA
$362,625 Oklahoma City, OK
$351,003 Phoenix, AZ
$348,145 Philadelphia, PA
$346,256 Louisville, KY
$345,063 Long Beach, CA
$344,712 Colorado Springs, CO
$321,765 Albuquerque, NM
$321,465 Kansas City, MO
$315,340 Indianapolis, IN
$311,398 Mesa, AZ
$307,162 Memphis, TN
$300,272 El Paso, TX
$298,450 San Antonio, TX
$285,035 Fresno, CA
$282,782 Arlington, TX
$268,811 Columbus, OH
$254,336 Milwaukee, WI
$246,862 Tucson, AZ
$199,192 Detroit, MI

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Crawford

In a sit-down restaurant in, say, Columbus, Ohio, wouldn't one person almost always pay $30+ for a complete dinner with wine?

Never been to Columbus, but I certainly could get a full dinner with a glass of wine or beer in Calgary (my home town) for around C$25 or even less without any issues.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Never been to Columbus, but I certainly could get a full dinner with a glass of wine or beer in Calgary (my home town) for around C$25 or even less without any issues.

Where? Applebees?

So for $18 USD, you have a complete meal, at a legitimate establishment, with wine, in U.S./Canada? So like $12 before tax and tip? $5 before wine?

I'm sorry, I don't believe it. I don't even think at Applebees. Even the cheapest entrees run over $10, and that still isn't comparable to typical prix-fixe in France.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

I must have been eating at the wrong restaurants when I was in Paris then, because I was never able to have a meal for less than 25 euro when I was there, and it was usually 30+ (with only one drink, either wine or beer).

I totally agree with you about Hong Kong and Singapore especially. Singapore is ridiculous. A pint of beer can easily cost you $18, even at a 'plastic chair' establishment. Outside of the job market for someone with a family, I don't see the appeal of Singapore at all. I'd hate to end up there. Little India is cool, I guess.

Paris though, I gotta disagree. I was able to eat there for 15 to 20 euros easily. Hell, I could stock up on amazing pastries in Montmartre ( a pricey area) for under 20 euros.

You can get a three course lunch at Bouillon Chartier in Montmartre, for instance, for under 20 euros. Recommended, by the way.

taking it home by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr