The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[misher]

Note that BC is expanding production of butane which is very pollutive. So not all "clean LNG" up there.

https://biv.com/article/2019/10/tour...ext-five-years

Tourmaline to spend $1.7 billion in northeast B.C. over the next five years

Fort St. John, B.C. — Tourmaline Oil Corp. says it remains bullish on its operations in northeast B.C. and plans to spend $1.7 billion on gas exploration and development here over the next five years.

The company announced the news Oct. 12 in Fort St. John, and celebrated the commissioning of its new $200-million deep cut gas plant at Gundy alongside staff and elected officials.

Included in the $1.7 billion of new spending is a $150 million expansion of the new Gundy plant, doubling capacity from 200 mmcf/d to 400 mmcf/d and increasing liquid volumes by 85,000 bbls/d. Butane and propane is already being shipped out of the region by rail to AltaGas Ltd.'s new terminal in Prince Rupert and exported to Asia.

Energy Minister Michelle Mungall was also in Fort St. John for the celebration. She said natural gas is key to the renewable energy transition, and said industry and the province must take environmental standards into consideration when doing business.

“In B.C., the best way to create family-supporting jobs is through our resource sector,” Mungall said.

http://www.apis.ac.uk/overview/pollu...rview_VOCs.htm

The largest emissions of individual VOCs are of butane, toluene, pentane, propane, ethanol and 'white spirit'.

[milomilo]

? Butane is just a simple hydrocarbon, it's illogical to single that out as bad but not propane or pentane.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by milomilo

? Butane is just a simple hydrocarbon, it's illogical to single that out as bad but not propane or pentane.

Butane/Isobutane (C4H10) and Propane (C3H8) have roughly the same CO2 production per unit of unit of energy:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...ls-d_1085.html

Nat gas is about 18% better.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by esquire

Young people these days don't care about it the way they used to. I mean, of course there are probably still people who take their tests on the day of their 16th birthday, but it amazes me how many teenagers don't even bother. Even in a place like Winnipeg where being without a car can be a hassle, there are a lot who don't drive.

Could it be that Millennials were far more likely to have been chauffeured around by parents? I got my license the day I turned 16 because my parents would not drive me anywhere under any circumstances. If an after school activity wasn't accessible by walking or transit, it didn't happen. My 3 kids that have hit 16 so far obtained licenses right away. They also never had access to a parental ride service.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Doug

Butane/Isobutane (C4H10) and Propane (C3H8) have roughly the same CO2 production per unit of unit of energy:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...ls-d_1085.html

Nat gas is about 18% better.

That doesn't explain why misher thinks it is especially bad.

[stevanford1]

Big day for Edmonton and Climate Change

'Our future is at stake': Greta Thunberg tells climate rally in Edmonton


By foot, by bus and by truck, thousands of Albertans made their way to the provincial legislature grounds in Edmonton, drawn by a 16-year-old Swedish girl who is trying to convince governments to take action on climate change.

Wearing a turquoise parka, environmental activist Greta Thunberg marched among the hundreds of people along several major downtown Edmonton roads, ending at the Alberta Legislature where hundreds more were waiting to greet her.

Among the crowd were more than 100 people who set out early in the morning from Calgary to show up for the Fridays for Future rally, the climate strikes that originated with Thunberg and have spread around the world.

As Thunberg took the podium, she noted that it seemed like the rally had greatly exceeded that target.

"Today is Friday," Thunberg said early in her remarks. "And as always, we are on climate strike. Young people all around the globe are today sacrificing their education to bring attention to the climate and ecological emergency.

"And we are not doing this because we want to. We aren't doing it because it's fun. We're aren't doing it because we have a special interest in the climate or because we want to become politicians when we grow up.

"We are doing this because our future is at stake."

Full Article Here

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Doug

Could it be that Millennials were far more likely to have been chauffeured around by parents? I got my license the day I turned 16 because my parents would not drive me anywhere under any circumstances. If an after school activity wasn't accessible by walking or transit, it didn't happen. My 3 kids that have hit 16 so far obtained licenses right away. They also never had access to a parental ride service.

Possibly to some extent (especially at younger ages, i.e. when in high school) but a lot of those youngsters appear to be opting for transit or walking into adulthood.

When I was a kid, generally the people who weren't driving were forced into it by their circumstances, while now it's a bit more of a choice.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by esquire

Possibly to some extent (especially at younger ages, i.e. when in high school) but a lot of those youngsters appear to be opting for transit or walking into adulthood.

When I was a kid, generally the people who weren't driving were forced into it by their circumstances, while now it's a bit more of a choice.

As cities become more dense, transit options get better and operating a car becomes more expensive. Cities like NYC and London have seen this for a long time, where it's not just the unwashed poor on public transit. Other cities are catching up.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

As cities become more dense, transit options get better and operating a car becomes more expensive. Cities like NYC and London have seen this for a long time, where it's not just the unwashed poor on public transit. Other cities are catching up.

Yeah, exactly this. It isn't a new phenomenon in the biggest three cities, but it feels like it's becoming more common in the other large and mid-sized cities. I realize this is heavily anecdotal... if anyone has any stats, feel free to post 'em.

[jawagord]

Originally Posted by Doug

Butane/Isobutane (C4H10) and Propane (C3H8) have roughly the same CO2 production per unit of unit of energy:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...ls-d_1085.html

Nat gas is about 18% better.

Butane is a component of natural gas, it’s simply more valuable if extracted and sold as a low pressure liquid fuel than leaving it in a gaseous form. Whether it gets burnt in a camp fuel stove or lighter or your furnace makes little difference to the environment.

https://www.croftsystems.net/oil-gas...as-composition

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by esquire

I realize this is heavily anecdotal... if anyone has any stats, feel free to post 'em.

At least for the US, unlinked transit trips in most markets are declining, even with large investments into shiny new LRT lines:

https://www.apta.com/research-techni...port-archives/

EU-28 car modal share for passenger-km has been stable over the last decade.

https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu...TableAction.do

If young people are taking transit more, than that's been offset by other groups taking it less.

[whatnext]

Stay classy Alberta!

Greta Thunberg mural in Edmonton defaced 2 days after being created

[milomilo]

Looks like the carbon tax is safe, hopefully in 5 years time it will have just become a normal boring thing and not a political hot potato.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Looks like the carbon tax is safe, hopefully in 5 years time it will have just become a normal boring thing and not a political hot potato.

The Cons need to embrace some kind of climate plan. The carbon tax is/was the most free market solution. Maybe they'll come around and pretend like they always supported it.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The Cons need to embrace some kind of climate plan. The carbon tax is/was the most free market solution. Maybe they'll come around and pretend like they always supported it.

They did have some legitimate arguments (even if only accidentally), about large emitters being given an easier ride than consumers. Cool, fix that! Scrap subsidies and pointless regulations too, be conservative, get the most value for the money being spent on climate change! If they worry we will just offshore our pollution, say they support carbon tariffs on laggard countries. None of this is incompatible in any way with conservative values.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Stay classy Alberta!

Greta Thunberg mural in Edmonton defaced 2 days after being created

The guy that did it came forward and was interviewed. As for the artist, he was ok with the defacing.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The Cons need to embrace some kind of climate plan. The carbon tax is/was the most free market solution. Maybe they'll come around and pretend like they always supported it.

No, they'll double down on opposing it because they don't learn. Andrew Scheer is staying on as leader after losing an election that was all but handed to him on a silver platter.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

No, they'll double down on opposing it because they don't learn. Andrew Scheer is staying on as leader after losing an election that was all but handed to him on a silver platter.

That would be my prediction too. Even though the majority of Canadians support action against climate change and will become accustomed to carbon pricing, Canadian Conservatives are rabidly opposed to carbon pricing for completely irrational reasons. Since the leadership of the conservative parties actively stoked this irrational position, it will be hard for them to now go back and say they support reducing emissions in the cheapest way possible, despite the obvious soundness of that policy position.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Airboy

The guy that did it came forward and was interviewed. As for the artist, he was ok with the defacing.

That doesn't make it a good look for Alberta, it feeds into the stereotype in a bad way.

[O-tacular]

Canada’s election results are a victory for the planet

TO MANY politicians, promoting a carbon tax sounds like political suicide. The question of carbon pricing brought down an Australian government in 2013 and roiled politics even in environmentally conscious Washington state, where two successive ballot initiatives failed.

But the narrative of political suicide now has a Canada-sized hole in it.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau pulled through in Monday’s federal election, as his Liberal Party won a plurality of 157 seats in the country’s 338-seat House of Commons. Though he will now have to govern with other, smaller parties, this was an unexpectedly strong result. During his campaign, he admitted that he had worn blackface and brownface on several occasions, and Canada’s former attorney general accused him of unduly pressuring her to end a prosecution.

In this challenging political environment, the prime minister made big promises on climate change. He had already imposed a carbon tax system on Canada’s provinces and, after Monday’s results, there is little doubt it will fully phase in early next year. He pledged to plant 2 billion trees and to adopt substantially more ambitious greenhouse emissions goals — to net-zero emissions by 2050, the direction scientists say the world must go.

These initiatives won the prime minister few votes in oil-producing provinces such as Alberta. But, when one adds the votes for Mr. Trudeau’s Liberal Party and smaller parties such as the Greens and the New Democratic Party, a clear majority backed assertive climate action. Parties favoring policies at least as tough as Mr. Trudeau’s won 216 seats and 63 percent of the popular vote. Though the Liberals lost their outright majority, this was in part due to the resurgence of the Bloc Quebecois, which also promised to resist a carbon tax rollback.

“You have asked us to show even more vision and ambition as we tackle the greatest challenge of this era, climate change,” Mr. Trudeau said Monday night, according to a translation in Canada’s National Post of his French-language remarks. “That is exactly what we will do.”

To be sure, the election was not a referendum on a single policy. But the prime minister’s Conservative opponents relied on the conventional wisdom that carbon taxes are political poison, and they lost. As other states and countries impose carbon prices of various kinds, that conventional wisdom increasingly looks due for revision.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a96_story.html