Polo Park Expansion

[bomberjet]

Okay. Yes Chinook is superior and also no where near Winnipeg. Polo Park is the primary mall for the area.

The article talked about failing malls. Polo Park is not one of them. I agreed getting rid of the parking lots would be great. Like the article said, malls are now surrounded by developed areas instead of being in the middle of nowhere. What do you want? Just to fight about?

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

LOL, Um, Chinook Mall is superior, but Cadillac Fairview is looking add residential.

Perhaps you should read a book called "Good to Great"

[esquire]

CJOB/Global has posted a couple renderings of what CF/Shindico are pitching for Polo Park:





https://globalnews.ca/news/6619357/r...ans-polo-park/

Man, this could be fantastic. St. James could go from total eyesore to something resembling an urban street that you could actually walk down. And there is nothing revolutionary about the building heights shown... they are all in line with existing maximums in the area.

It isn't downtown, but it's still a very good infill urban development that is transit friendly and makes good use of existing infrastructure. There is no way that the City should say no to that. The property tax revenue will probably pay for all the parks and fire stations that are conspicuously absent from new subdivisions on the edge of town.

[headhorse]

I've posted this before, but I don't think that the third runway will ever be built and past 2030 as we're going to see a decline in air travel, especially in places like Winnipeg, as things like air ships and railways grow. we should not be allowing air travel to dictate the ways our cities grow (we did that with the railways and look how many issues it has caused.)

that sort of density and re-development is existing what Winnipeg needs. we needed to stop sprawling out in this city 20 years ago.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by headhorse

I've posted this before, but I don't think that the third runway will ever be built and past 2030 as we're going to see a decline in air travel, especially in places like Winnipeg, as things like air ships and railways grow. we should not be allowing air travel to dictate the ways our cities grow (we did that with the railways and look how many issues it has caused.)

that sort of density and re-development is existing what Winnipeg needs. we needed to stop sprawling out in this city 20 years ago.

You raise a good point, it is possible that we may be in the era of peak airport globally. I don't think aviation will ever disappear but the imposition of carbon taxes to reflect the environmental footprint of flying could dramatically reduce the amount of passenger and cargo flights. It is possible that a third runway might never materialize as a result.

But that said, the third runway would be immaterial to the Polo Park plan... the AVDP restrictions have to do mainly with a runway that already exists.

[joshlemer]

I'm all for getting rid of surface parking lots, and this project looks amazing, but how would polo park cope with losing like half of their available parking? Maybe we'll see an accompanying multi-level parkade on the North and East sides.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by joshlemer

I'm all for getting rid of surface parking lots, and this project looks amazing, but how would polo park cope with losing like half of their available parking? Maybe we'll see an accompanying multi-level parkade on the North and East sides.

There would definitely have to be more parking built to offset the spaces lost plus the increased demand from residents and commercial tenants. I'm sure parking would be incorporated into the new buildings, and there is plenty of room for new parkades to the northwest of the mall. Or perhaps they can add additional levels to the existing parking deck.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by esquire

CJOB/Global has posted a couple renderings of what CF/Shindico are pitching for Polo Park:





https://globalnews.ca/news/6619357/r...ans-polo-park/

It isn't downtown, but it's still a very good infill urban development that is transit friendly and makes good use of existing infrastructure. There is no way that the City should say no to that. The property tax revenue will probably pay for all the parks and fire stations that are conspicuously absent from new subdivisions on the edge of town.

It's what would be called a (Suburban) Town Centre. Basically "Downtown St. James", as it has been since Polo opensd in 1959. That's what the Americans and British call them. Downtown urbanized like areas, in the suburbs with a "transit hub" serving nearby suburban neighbourhoods. Canadians just call these areas "suburban retail", just to be different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_centre

[esquire]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

It's what would be called a (Suburban) Town Centre. Basically "Downtown St. James", as it has been since Polo opensd in 1959. That's what the Americans and British call them. Downtown urbanized like areas, in the suburbs with a "transit hub" serving nearby suburban neighbourhoods. Canadians just call these areas "suburban retail", just to be different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_centre

Thank you for the background on that. It would be a nice middle ground between the traditional downtown area and outlying suburban shopping strips like Kenaston.

[joshlemer]

Like I say, the renderings look amazing, and I'm sorry for being negative, but they also seem too good to be true. How likely is it that every tower and every podium comes with beautifully manicured grass park on top with leisurely nature paths through them? Or that all the spaces between buildings are dedicated pedestrian walkways complete with cobblestone and trees, rather than parking? It's not clear from the rendering, but maybe the first storey's of the buildings along portage are all pure parkade? As well as that building close to urban outfitters tucked away along st james?

I'd love it to turn out like this, but we live in a town where towers are likely to either be 50% parking (Manitoba Clinic), or be adjacent to a parking lot that takes up as much of a footprint as it does (the new Stradbrook tower, WRHA building on main).

[bomberjet]

Wow that would be amazing. Completely transform that area from a sea of bland pavement. In addition to whatever other potential developments would come from the zoning change.

And yes hard to tell what would be parking and what would be useable space.

[EdwardTH]

Realistically I would look to the residential at Seasons/Outlet collection area as a pretty good predictor of what developments on that site might look like.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Realistically I would look to the residential at Seasons/Outlet collection area as a pretty good predictor of what developments on that site might look like.

With Cadillac Fairview behind this i have more faith it could look more like the renderings than not. They have pretty impressive developments in other cities.

[armorand93]

Now the only thing is... can someone get the WAA to grt their heads out of their asses, and allow such a majestic TOD, to be built upon Polo Park? Or are we going to be stuck in the Dark Ages, by a bunch of NIMBY's that would rather throw urban Winnipeg to the wolves...

This development looks AMAZING. Serves a great need too, looks great, amazing transit service potential as well. If the WAA manages to abort this, I'll be fucking livid.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

With Cadillac Fairview behind this i have more faith it could look more like the renderings than not. They have pretty impressive developments in other cities.

Agreed. Chinook Centre, being a good example of what happens when CF remodels their properties. Only reason theres no TOD/residential on their Market and Chinook malls here, is mostly just parking issues, lost business concerns & in Chinooks case - tons of other nearby land perfect for TOD.

So for Winnipeg... the Sears parking lot must be quite empty. Will they do phase one and leave Sears open for parking, then phase two? Or all built at once? Polo Park might suffer sales losses, if theres no parking on the Western side of the mall. But in phases? I honestly believe it could work out, without CF taking any significant sales hits.

Especially if Winnipeg Transit can take up the automobile slack.

[thurmas]

Its such a shame city hall will likely vote this down tomorrow leaving the tumbleweed in place.

[bomberjet]

There are some regulations and bylaws in place that prevent this from going forward. They can not move forward to a second reading. So they have to rescind and start again. Hopefully that happens and this is not dead.

Small piece from here. There's a lot of mumbo jumbo top weed through.
http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/perm...3(RM)AC-33.pdf

Referral to Municipal Board
270(1) Where
(a) a proposed secondary plan by-law deals with the airport vicinity protection area; and
(b) a municipality, or the board of a planning district established under The Planning Act, that is adjacent to the area, or the Government of Canada or the Government of Manitoba objects to the proposed by-law by filing a notice of objection with the city clerk before the day of the meeting at which council is to consider the report of a committee of council or planning commission respecting the proposed by-law;
(c) the city must, before council gives second reading to the proposed by-law, refer the proposed by-law to The Municipal Board.
Restriction on adoption of by-law
270(3) Council must not pass a proposed secondary plan by-law that has been referred to The Municipal Board unless the proposed by-law conforms to the recommendations

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Its such a shame city hall will likely vote this down tomorrow leaving the tumbleweed in place.

Yeah who wants a 24 hour airport anyway besides being the busiest cargo airport in the country means too many noisy planes! Take that business somewhere else, we're Manitoba all we need and want is govt. business and more bureaucrats, free enterprise sucks!

[OTA in Winnipeg]

^Oh, WTF ever. I'm old enough to remember when everyone would just stop talking when a plane was overhead because it was just so loud it was impossible to talk and to be heard. Those days are long gone rrskylar.

I now live on Mount Royal which is in line of the main runway of the YWG. I almost never hear them. When I do, well, I'm used to it now, so I rarely hear it.

A bunch of medium rises in Polo Park is nothing. Why is this even a debate?

[WinCitySparky]

I think he was being sarcastic.