SAN ANTONIO | Urban Core Development Thread

[UltraDanPrime]

Ya cant beat that! Very nice

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

Based off those renderings, the pig stand is definitely not sticking around.

What leads you to this conclusion? Those renderings include a pig stand-sized building in the pig stand location.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

What leads you to this conclusion? Those renderings include a pig stand-sized building in the pig stand location.

Because what is physically there now and what the renderings depict are not one and the same. It’s that simple. The massing of the buildings do not replicate the true massing of what is there now. The pig stand is not a long Miki’s Tori Ed structure as what the rendering depicts.

Again, I don’t know what he future holds for that corner of buildings, but if we are to base it off the Gensler renderings, it doesn’t seem like those buildings will remain.

[PDD]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

Based off those renderings, the pig stand is definitely not sticking around. I’m ok with that.

The Pig Stand is likely not going anywhere. It's been around for almost 100 years. It's a historic landmark at this point.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by PDD

The Pig Stand is likely not going anywhere. It's been around for almost 100 years. It's a historic landmark at this point.

It’s not a historical landmark and unless someone decides to try and designate it as such, if a developer buys the buildings on that corner and redevelops that corner, the pig stand could definitely be razed.

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

The pig stand is not a long Miki’s Tori Ed structure as what the rendering depicts.

Assuming you meant multistoried, are you sure you're looking at the correct street corner?

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by mattdmoreno

Kind of reminds me of the Domain in Austin

Exactly what I was thinking. Or maybe City Centre in Houston. And I'm not sure these comparisons are a compliment. It's really nice... but it could be anywhere. Especially bland compared to the dang Pearl across the street.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

Assuming you meant multistoried, are you sure you're looking at the correct street corner?

I did and I am.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame

Exactly what I was thinking. Or maybe City Centre in Houston. And I'm not sure these comparisons are a compliment. It's really nice... but it could be anywhere. Especially bland compared to the dang Pearl across the street.

Well, first off, it’s a master plan and not anything official. As you can see, 1603 Broadway isn’t even in those renderings and Gensler designed it. What will eventually be built on that side of Broadway isn’t finalized so don’t get so down. Second, what is there now and what will eventually be built there is far and away light years away better and an incredible upgrade, that anyone finding reasons of disapproval is just finding those reasons for the sake of it.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

anyone finding reasons of disapproval is just finding those reasons for the sake of it.

There's a list a mile long why we're entitled to be picky about this design. This area is developing as a new core for our city. Do we want one of its anchors to look and feel like the Domain? I don't hold every project to this standard, obviously our city is full of bland garbage, but these guys have (apparently) deep pockets and a big vision for this site. That combined with its prominent location demands a more thoughtful design approach. As for it being upgrade... literally anything would be an upgrade over a soon to be abandoned bus barn and a bunch of vacant lots and buildings, so let's cool it with that extremely flawed logic.

Idk if anyone here attended Sir David Adjaye's (the architect of Ruby City) lecture at Trinity last week, but he noted at the end of the lecture how it's really obvious when cities are trying to be like someplace else, and that those cities are extremely boring to visit and be in, which really resonated with me. Well, to me, that's exactly what this is. The embracing of the bland anywhereism of modern urban form in order to emulate other cities. Again, look at the Pearl across the street for a shinning example of the opposite of this, of integrating contemporary design with local touches. As someone who has spent 95% of his life here, this matters to me a lot. There's no particular reason I have to live in San Antonio, but it's relatively small things like that that keep me here. It's what contributes to our sense of place. And, from a real estate perspective, an interesting sense of place can help lead to patterns of repeat visitation, which is good for business.

[Rynetwo]

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame

There's a list a mile long why we're entitled to be picky about this design. This area is developing as a new core for our city. Do we want one of its anchors to look and feel like the Domain? I don't hold every project to this standard, obviously our city is full of bland garbage, but these guys have (apparently) deep pockets and a big vision for this site. That combined with its prominent location demands a more thoughtful design approach. As for it being upgrade... literally anything would be an upgrade over a soon to be abandoned bus barn and a bunch of vacant lots and buildings, so let's cool it with that extremely flawed logic.

Idk if anyone here attended Sir David Adjaye's (the architect of Ruby City) lecture at Trinity last week, but he noted at the end of the lecture how it's really obvious when cities are trying to be like someplace else, and that those cities are extremely boring to visit and be in, which really resonated with me. Well, to me, that's exactly what this is. The embracing of the bland anywhereism of modern urban form in order to emulate other cities. Again, look at the Pearl across the street for a shinning example of the opposite of this, of integrating contemporary design with local touches. As someone who has spent 95% of his life here, this matters to me a lot. There's no particular reason I have to live in San Antonio, but it's relatively small things like that that keep me here. It's what contributes to our sense of place. And, from a real estate perspective, an interesting sense of place can help lead to patterns of repeat visitation, which is good for business.

This all sounds great but your offering an opinion on a design that has not been presented. Try again when you see the design?

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame

There's a list a mile long why we're entitled to be picky about this design. This area is developing as a new core for our city. Do we want one of its anchors to look and feel like the Domain? I don't hold every project to this standard, obviously our city is full of bland garbage, but these guys have (apparently) deep pockets and a big vision for this site. That combined with its prominent location demands a more thoughtful design approach. As for it being upgrade... literally anything would be an upgrade over a soon to be abandoned bus barn and a bunch of vacant lots and buildings, so let's cool it with that extremely flawed logic.

Idk if anyone here attended Sir David Adjaye's (the architect of Ruby City) lecture at Trinity last week, but he noted at the end of the lecture how it's really obvious when cities are trying to be like someplace else, and that those cities are extremely boring to visit and be in, which really resonated with me. Well, to me, that's exactly what this is. The embracing of the bland anywhereism of modern urban form in order to emulate other cities. Again, look at the Pearl across the street for a shinning example of the opposite of this, of integrating contemporary design with local touches. As someone who has spent 95% of his life here, this matters to me a lot. There's no particular reason I have to live in San Antonio, but it's relatively small things like that that keep me here. It's what contributes to our sense of place. And, from a real estate perspective, an interesting sense of place can help lead to patterns of repeat visitation, which is good for business.

You can claim flawed logic on my end all you want, but I wi claim it on your end as well when you use similarly flawed logic by trying to compare this overall development to the Pearl. The Pearl is a completely different beast in that it itself is a sandbox development that is so far confined within a former brewery and has much to play with.

The GrayStreet Partners development is at the other end of the spectrum from the Pearl. They’re apples and oranges and to find failure in GSP not replicating the Pearl is beyond flawed in thinking. Also, as I said before, to base any thing off the Gensler master plan massing renderings is foolish as none of that is final.

Wait until actual projects are announced and final design renderings are released before you pass judgement.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

I can't believe I'm having to label the location of the danged Pig Stand on an architectural rendering, but here we are. I hope this clears up the confusion as to who is looking at what building etc.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by Rynetwo

This all sounds great but your offering an opinion on a design that has not been presented. Try again when you see the design?

It's a design posted by the architects retained by the developer. Maybe what's officially proposed will be radically different, maybe not. In the meantime I will shout into the void my thoughts on this. It's the first window we've had into what Grey Street is thinking about for this site, I think commentary is warranted.

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

Well, first off, it’s a master plan and not anything official. As you can see, 1603 Broadway isn’t even in those renderings and Gensler designed it. What will eventually be built on that side of Broadway isn’t finalized so don’t get so down. Second, what is there now and what will eventually be built there is far and away light years away better and an incredible upgrade, that anyone finding reasons of disapproval is just finding those reasons for the sake of it.

But the Pig Stand is definitely going down?

[sirkingwilliam]

h

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame

I can't believe I'm having to label the location of the danged Pig Stand on an architectural rendering, but here we are. I hope this clears up the confusion as to who is looking at what building etc.

You didn’t need to label any buildings. I know which corner the pig stand is on. As I said, if you believe the pig stand to be a long multistoried building, as is depicted, then by all means, believe it. As I said, if I am to believe those theoretical massing structures, that is not the pig stand restaurant.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

But the Pig Stand is definitely going down?

Is that what I said?

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

h

You didn’t need to label any buildings. I know which corner the pig stand is on. Iaa I said, if you believe the pig stand to be a long multistoried building, as is depicted, then by all means, believe it. As I said, if I am to believe those theoretical massing structures, that is not the pig stand restaurant.

I mean, I'm sure these guys definitely bothered to get the exact dimensions of the Pig Stand for their rendering, the way they did with every other existing building that's nearby.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

I mean, I'm sure these guys definitely bothered to get the exact dimensions of the Pig Stand for their rendering, the way they did with every other existing building that's nearby.

Which is why I specifically phased all my comments regarding the pig stand the way I did. I am done with the pig stand talk, there is no need to continue to nitpick and bicker about it. Let’s get back to meaningful discussion, please.

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

Is that what I said?

Yeah. You said

"Based off those renderings, the pig stand is definitely not sticking around"

The same renderings about which you said

"Well, first off, it’s a master plan and not anything official. As you can see, 1603 Broadway isn’t even in those renderings and Gensler designed it. What will eventually be built on that side of Broadway isn’t finalized so don’t get so down."

I'm just asking for a little consistency in your claims, and for you to recognize that the building in the rendering is quite plausibly the Pig Stand.