Southwest Rapid Transitway Stage 2 -- Improvement or Deterioration?

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

they should just convert the giant median thing on main just north of assiniboine into a boarding island.

that way, the buses turning onto northbound main wouldn't have to go all the way to the rightmost lane and then shift back to the leftmost lane to turn onto graham.

That maneuver doesn't really cause any problems. And there's a transit priority light at St. Mary for any buses that don't manage to change back to the left lane. Buses never get piled up northbound at Broadway, it's the southbound stop that's the problem.

[bomberjet]

I really dislike the traffic flow in general in that southbound Main curb lane, south of Portage. Especially since 300 Main started.

Basically it's a race from Portage Ave for everyone to pile into the curb lane to turn at St. Mary. It's usually backed up (or was pre COVID-19) through the Graham Ave intersection. So now buses sit and what in the line of cars. They really should've kept the diamond lane in place there. Then people in the second lane wanting to get in but nobody lets them haha. typical.

Same thing as mentioned at Broadway. When I drive, I usually skip St. Mary altogether, get in line to wait at broadway. Then I'll take the back lane behind Wawanesa and head north of Fort. This get's me back to St. Mary Ave and down tot he office.

And Main St is 4 lanes wide but everyone in the curb lane. I like the idea of doing centre median lanes for buses. In addition to Union Station for RT routes. If that were to ever happen.

Yes, I'm complaining about Downtown traffic haha, which in general is not bad at all.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

And Main St is 4 lanes wide but everyone in the curb lane. I like the idea of doing centre median lanes for buses. In addition to Union Station for RT routes. If that were to ever happen.

Definitely agree that centre median is the way to go -- especially if they seriously want Portage to take over from Graham as a transit priority corridor. Curb lanes have too much friction with right-turning traffic, parking, and drop-offs.

[trueviking]

went for a bike ride to check out the new rapid transit line. I remember trying to defend the open field route, in hopes that it might be a catalyst to TOD. Boy, was I wrong. This thing is going to be a big white elephant. There isn't even anywhere that new development could happen. Where it isn't in a completely open field under the Hydro right of way, it is sandwiched between the lowest density single family neighbourhood in the world and massive factories and warehouses. There isn't a single apartment block or even a duplex within three kilometers of any of the stops. Who exactly is going to use it? Why even have stops? Even the Fulton Grove area is a long way from the big fancy stop that looks like it was designed to be in Tokyo. Massive walkways and giant shelters. Fancy shedule screens. Its hilarious to see this massive urban infrastrcuture in the middle of a field with the deafening sound of frogs croaking all around you. Of course to compensate for the fact that nobody can walk to the stop, they have the biggest parking lots I've ever seen on one side. Like easily 500 cars. Just walking from one end to the other is almost too far. Who would drive to the bus stop? Once you are in your car, why not just keep going. The whole thing is pointless. There are no destinations anywhere near it. You can see Pembina highway in the far distance as you longingly gaze for a destination.


The AT path is a spandex cyclists dream, but it is the same. Why would anyone use it? It is so far from anywhere you want to go and from where anyone lives. Its ok for a recreational bike ride or walk the dog for the few people living near it, but completely useless as transportation. Nevermind the wind barreling across the open prairie. Not only that, the path stops dead about 3/4 of the way to the university - the only reason you would be on the stupid path in the first place. Why didn't they continue it all the way to the campus. You get kicked onto a painted lane on Pembina highway which just ends a few blocks away.


The whole thing blew my mind. That was probably the biggest AT spending in the city's history and it is useless. The bus thing is a completely misguided waste of money. Thank goodness they've decided not to do these corridors anymore.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by trueviking

went for a bike ride to check out the new rapid transit line. I remember trying to defend the open field route, in hopes that it might be a catalyst to TOD. Boy, was I wrong. This thing is going to be a big white elephant. There isn't even anywhere that new development could happen. Where it isn't in a completely open field under the Hydro right of way, it is sandwiched between the lowest density single family neighbourhood in the world and massive factories and warehouses. There isn't a single apartment block or even a duplex within three kilometers of any of the stops. Who exactly is going to use it? Why even have stops? Even the Fulton Grove area is a long way from the big fancy stop that looks like it was designed to be in Tokyo. Massive walkways and giant shelters. Fancy shedule screens. Its hilarious to see this massive urban infrastrcuture in the middle of a field with the deafening sound of frogs croaking all around you. Of course to compensate for the fact that nobody can walk to the stop, they have the biggest parking lots I've ever seen on one side. Like easily 500 cars. Just walking from one end to the other is almost too far. Who would drive to the bus stop? Once you are in your car, why not just keep going. The whole thing is pointless. There are no destinations anywhere near it. You can see Pembina highway in the far distance as you longingly gaze for a destination.


The AT path is a spandex cyclists dream, but it is the same. Why would anyone use it? It is so far from anywhere you want to go and from where anyone lives. Its ok for a recreational bike ride or walk the dog for the few people living near it, but completely useless as transportation. Nevermind the wind barreling across the open prairie. Not only that, the path stops dead about 3/4 of the way to the university - the only reason you would be on the stupid path in the first place. Why didn't they continue it all the way to the campus. You get kicked onto a painted lane on Pembina highway which just ends a few blocks away.


The whole thing blew my mind. That was probably the biggest AT spending in the city's history and it is useless. The bus thing is a completely misguided waste of money. Thank goodness they've decided not to do these corridors anymore.

Yikes, take a deep breath Vike .

"There isn't a single apartment block or even a duplex within three kilometers of any of the stops." lol what?

"Why would anyone use it?" Um, the same reasons anyone uses any of the other AT paths in the city? I walked the path the other day and it was packed. The dogleg is about a kilometer longer than going straight down Pembina from Jubilee to Bishop Grandin. For those not comfortable riding on Pembina, a completely separated path with only a couple crossings and stops is well worth the extra distance.

"Who would drive to the bus stop?" I'm sure you've seen or heard of park and rides. They have them along transit corridors in most major cities in North America. We actually have them right now along major bus routes right here in Winnipeg, and many people use them.

"Not only that, the path stops dead about 3/4 of the way to the university" There's a path all the way to campus through the old golf course, right from the transit corridor. Maybe you didn't see it?

[joshlemer]

Originally Posted by trueviking

went for a bike ride to check out the new rapid transit line. I remember trying to defend the open field route, in hopes that it might be a catalyst to TOD. Boy, was I wrong. This thing is going to be a big white elephant. There isn't even anywhere that new development could happen. Where it isn't in a completely open field under the Hydro right of way, it is sandwiched between the lowest density single family neighbourhood in the world and massive factories and warehouses. There isn't a single apartment block or even a duplex within three kilometers of any of the stops. Who exactly is going to use it? Why even have stops? Even the Fulton Grove area is a long way from the big fancy stop that looks like it was designed to be in Tokyo. Massive walkways and giant shelters. Fancy shedule screens. Its hilarious to see this massive urban infrastrcuture in the middle of a field with the deafening sound of frogs croaking all around you. Of course to compensate for the fact that nobody can walk to the stop, they have the biggest parking lots I've ever seen on one side. Like easily 500 cars. Just walking from one end to the other is almost too far. Who would drive to the bus stop? Once you are in your car, why not just keep going. The whole thing is pointless. There are no destinations anywhere near it. You can see Pembina highway in the far distance as you longingly gaze for a destination.


The AT path is a spandex cyclists dream, but it is the same. Why would anyone use it? It is so far from anywhere you want to go and from where anyone lives. Its ok for a recreational bike ride or walk the dog for the few people living near it, but completely useless as transportation. Nevermind the wind barreling across the open prairie. Not only that, the path stops dead about 3/4 of the way to the university - the only reason you would be on the stupid path in the first place. Why didn't they continue it all the way to the campus. You get kicked onto a painted lane on Pembina highway which just ends a few blocks away.


The whole thing blew my mind. That was probably the biggest AT spending in the city's history and it is useless. The bus thing is a completely misguided waste of money. Thank goodness they've decided not to do these corridors anymore.

I agree on many of the points you make, but it's not quite as bad as you describe.

There isn't even anywhere that new development could happen.

Isn't the whole huge open field between Chevrier/Pembina/Bishop being developed into "high density" apartments and commercial? I can't find the link at the moment but someone posted an update here a few months back.

Not only that, the path stops dead about 3/4 of the way to the university - the only reason you would be on the stupid path in the first place. Why didn't they continue it all the way to the campus. You get kicked onto a painted lane on Pembina highway which just ends a few blocks away.

I wonder if you missed the part where the bike path goes East along Chevrier for a block before continuing South on Hudson, and reconnecting to the transit corridor at the Southern end of Hudson. At that point it continues all the way into the U of M (and also down to Markham). Check out OpenStreetMaps for a more up to date view of the bike path than what Google Maps provides: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=1....1548&layers=C

Or check out the official fully detailed pdf map of the SW corridor: https://winnipegtransit.com/assets/1...9_lowres_2.pdf

There isn't a single apartment block or even a duplex within three kilometers of any of the stops.

True of the northern "dog leg" portion, but the southern part from U of M until just north of Bishop Grandin is about as densely populated as Winnipeg gets outside of the inner city. About 10k people live within a ~5 minute walk of the three stations of Plaza, Chancellor and Markham. Even on the North side, this block is open now and people are moving in: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8247...7i13312!8i6656 not to mention 30 University Crescent https://www.30uc.ca/

In the next decade or two maybe we'll see other large developments in the Parkerlands, upzoning Fort Garry, and perhaps even redevelopment of parts of the industrial parks.

[trueviking]

that's hilarious. I definitely did miss the connection down that little street. The AT signage is the worst. It's the same at the other end after Fort Rouge Yards. It's like a scavenger hunt. Good to know. Thanks.

I agree that the university is a destination with people, students and residents, but the stops between there and Osborne are pointless. Go stand on any one of the platforms between jubilee and chevrier. I don't even think there is a two storey house to be seen, never mind a multi-family building. it's hilarious. you feel like you are in the whiteshell. I cant even picture where someone would come from if they were going to use the bus. I actually saw one lady and wanted to ask her where in the world she walked from. Maybe if Fort Rouge Yards ever gets built a few people will use it from there.

If you have to build a 500 car parking lot to compensate for the fact that your rapid transit is in the middle of no where, you've made a tragic mistake. That certainly shouldn't be your primary target audience. It was funny becasue the few cars in the lot that I saw was spandex cyclists who had driven there so they could race their bikes up and down the track.

The path is busy for sure. Its a great path like the one through Assiniboine forest. Completely useless for trying to go anywhere but nice for a wander. I agree that Pembina sucks to ride your bike down, but that's the point. Our cycling infrastructure needs to be designed for transportation not recreation. A garden path a few kilometers over is not a replacement.

Total waste of money. It's the same with the route down regent they were looking at. The point of transit should not be to shuttle suburbanites from the furthest possible distance to downtown with no use in between. It should be where the most people possible can use it to go between stops. There are only two useful stops right now. Osborne and university. And becasue the transit is so far out of the way, the AT path loses all connectivity.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The path is busy for sure. Its a great path like the one through Assiniboine forest. Completely useless for trying to go anywhere but nice for a wander. I agree that Pembina sucks to ride your bike down, but that's the point. Our cycling infrastructure needs to be need to be designed for transportation not recreation. A garden path a few kilometers over is not a replacement.

Total waste of money. It's the same with the route down regent they were looking at. The point of transit should not be to shuttle suburbanites from the furthest possible distance to downtown with no use in between. It should be where the most people possible can use it to go between stops. There are only two useful stops right now. Osborne and university. And becasue the transit is so far out of the way, the AT path loses all connectivity.

Maybe once you've had a chance to cool down and reflect objectively on the active transportation infrastructure attached to this project, you'll reconsider.

This is a cycling spine for the entire southwest of the City, where there's a already a growing AT network. Almost every major corridor has an off-street path, at least for major stretches. That includes Bishop Grandin, McGillivray, Bison, and Sterling Lyon for east west, and Pembina, Waverley, and Kenaston for north south. This new pathway ties it all together. No destinations? Along this network, you can get to U of M, downtown, Osborne Village, countless stores and retail clusters, Fort Whyte, St. Vital, Bridgwater Centre and the list goes on, with the exception of a few key gaps. What destinations are you dying to get to that you can't along this network?

If you're not a fan of park and ride, you can also bike and ride. There are great bike storage facilities at the stations. Full bike lockers, like you're see in Copenhagan or whatever European cyclist capital-du-jour you want to reference next. What a great option for someone who wants to commute more sustainably, or doesn't want to pay $250 a month to park downtown.

The network that's growing in the southwest and elsewhere in the city is exactly what Bike Winnipeg and cyclists have been advocating for. As a commuter cyclist, I welcome these changes. I'm not too sure why you're so upset with this project. Assiniboine forest trail comparison . It's like I'm reading a post from the Jeckyl and Hyde of Winnipeg urbanism.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I agree that the university is a destination with people, students and residents, but the stops between there and Osborne are pointless. Go stand on any one of the platforms between jubilee and chevrier. I don't even think there is a two storey house to be seen, never mind a multi-family building. it's hilarious. you feel like you are in the whiteshell. I cant even picture where someone would come from if they were going to use the bus. I actually saw one lady and wanted to ask her where in the world she walked from.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate the dogleg route, but with the new network setup, most of the stations have feeder buses terminating at them, so in theory many passengers will be delivered to the RT line that way. Which is a totally legit setup -- similar to Toronto, where a large proportion of the ridership at suburban subway stations is delivered there by connecting bus routes.

Of course, if they had just used the Letellier rail ROW alongside Pembina, we could have had the feeder buses and actual destinations at the same time...