Seattle Is Dying (and it's not alone)

[SIGSEGV]

SF would definitely lose some of its edgy vibe without the Tenderloin.

[bossabreezes]

I feel like the Tenderloin wont gentrify within our lifetimes for multiple reasons, but in the theoretical case that it ever did, I wonder where the streetside misery would migrate to.

I wonder how liberal the residents of Nob Hill, Telegraph hill or Pacific Heights would be if they had human excrement and thousands of used needles in their lawns.

[10023]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

I feel like the Tenderloin wont gentrify within our lifetimes for multiple reasons, but in the theoretical case that it ever did, I wonder where the streetside misery would migrate to.

I wonder how liberal the residents of Nob Hill, Telegraph hill or Pacific Heights would be if they had human excrement and thousands of used needles in their lawns.

Why does any of this need to exist in a city?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

I feel like the Tenderloin wont gentrify within our lifetimes for multiple reasons, but in the theoretical case that it ever did, I wonder where the streetside misery would migrate to.

Oakland?

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Oakland?

Unlikely.

It takes a special mix of wealth and tolerance to create the scene on some of San Francisco's streets. Oakland doesn't really have either. Alameda County doesn't offer the level of benefits, cash and otherwise, that San Francisco does nor does the average inhabitant have the "spare change" to hand out that many San Franciscans do. And the Oakland street scene can be a tough one, not all that welcoming to mostly white addicts and mentally ill persons.

Berkeley, which already has some of this problem, makes a lot more sense: Wealthier, whiter, more self-consciously liberal.

But for now Oakland's gangs see SF's Tenderloin as a marketing territory, convenient to commute to by BART. They don't want its residents or its issues moving to where they live.

[mSeattle]

Originally Posted by 10023

Why does any of this need to exist in a city?

It must exist for class and wealth.

[dubu]

if weed wasnt legal in in washington and they didnt make good beer then maybe seattle would be dying. those two things have been good for the west coast, it sucks theres suck a drug problem here though (not counting weed and alcahol a drug).

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by dubu

if weed wasnt legal in in washington and they didnt make good beer then maybe seattle would be dying. those two things have been good for the west coast, it sucks theres suck a drug problem here though (not counting weed and alcahol a drug).

It also sucks that the police don't enforce the laws either. Imagine if they did?

Shitting in public? Jail.
Shooting up in public? Jail.
Exposing yourself in public? Jail.

Document everybody. 1 timers, release. Repeat offenders go to jail long term. That will sober them up real quick.

As soon as they repeat, back to jail for a longer sentence.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Here's a map showing homelessness rates per 10K people, as of 2018. As I said, it's heavily a west coast phenomenon. Except for NY and MA, the only states that have rates over 50 are on the west coast. Even both Alaska and Hawaii are in that category.

Why is the homeless rate so low in TX, another large state with high inequality and warm weather but with much lower social services spending? Part of the answer is more affordable housing costs. TX must have similar rates of mental illness as west coast cities. It likely has lower levels of drug addiction.

[dubu]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

It also sucks that the police don't enforce the laws either. Imagine if they did?

Shitting in public? Jail.
Shooting up in public? Jail.
Exposing yourself in public? Jail.

Document everybody. 1 timers, release. Repeat offenders go to jail long term. That will sober them up real quick.

As soon as they repeat, back to jail for a longer sentence.

i agree but cops arent going to want to go around putting people in jail for shitting, that job would be shit ha.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

^^Yup. After stabbing 3 people at random, he stripped off all his clothes as he ran away.

I've actually seen more than one deranged homeless person strip naked in public, once in the middle of a busy McDonald's.

We don't yet know if this guy was homeless or living on the street but he is clearly psychotic, not institutionalized and with a long history of mental ilness.

I saw a homeless guy drop his pants and masturbate on a BART train. A few passengers snickered. Most got off at the next station.

I have countless stories from my time in Seattle. I lived on the Eastside but worked in South Lake Union. Open drug use was so common as to be unremarkable. Some crazy woman came into my office building and vomited all over a security guard then her crazy boyfriend kicked the shit out of him and stole his wallet and phone. By that time, another security guard arrived and tasered them both. I witnessed the entire event and provided a statement to the police. Sadly, the police knew the two people as they had used the vomit distraction routine before. Neither were charged.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by dubu

i agree but cops arent going to want to go around putting people in jail for shitting, that job would be shit ha.

Call in the Poop Patrol, a service of SF Dept of Public Works

[dubu]

Originally Posted by Doug

Call in the Poop Patrol, a service of SF Dept of Public Works

a maid service for the homeless, that's how Tokyo would take care of it.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by dubu

a maid service for the homeless, that's how Tokyo would take care of it.

The Poop Patrol must pay well. Back in May, I saw them cleaning an escalator at Embarcadero Station. Looked very unpleasant.

[dubu]

Originally Posted by Doug

The Poop Patrol must pay well. Back in May, I saw them cleaning an escalator at Embarcadero Station. Looked very unpleasant.

it would be better cleaning gross stuff that's outside. I only lasted a year being a janitor.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Doug

Why is the homeless rate so low in TX, another large state with high inequality and warm weather but with much lower social services spending? Part of the answer is more affordable housing costs. TX must have similar rates of mental illness as west coast cities. It likely has lower levels of drug addiction.

In Texas, it gets really hot and humid in the summer, so it's not a particularly comfortable place to be homeless. In fact, that's pretty much the case for the entire eastern US - either it's hot and muggy in the summer and/or it's freezing cold in the winter. That's not the case for the west coast, which tends to be mild all year round.

Though undoubtedly the regional drug scene is a factor. That was the impression I had in Grant's Pass (see first page of thread) - there were marijuana stores all over the place and the homeless people I saw there seemed more like they were vagabond types who like to do drugs and drift from place to place rather than hard core mentally ill types.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

In Texas, it gets really hot and humid in the summer, so it's not a particularly comfortable place to be homeless. In fact, that's pretty much the case for the entire eastern US - either it's hot and muggy in the summer and/or it's freezing cold in the winter. That's not the case for the west coast, which tends to be mild all year round.

Though undoubtedly the regional drug scene is a factor. That was the impression I had in Grant's Pass (see first page of thread) - there were marijuana stores all over the place and the homeless people I saw there seemed more like they were vagabond types who like to do drugs and drift from place to place rather than hard core mentally ill types.

Come to Austin, if you want to find large numbers of homeless in Texas. We have tons of the traditional homeless and also the young"vagabond" types. A few years back we referred to the latter as "Drag Rats" since they tended to converge on the Guadalupe St. "Drag" in front of the UT campus. Back then there seemed to be a circuit between New Orleans, Austin, and Portland. Now these younger types are all over town, especially down on the south end of town where there are wooded areas, busy intersections perfect for sign flying, and congenial large freeway underpasses allowing one to panhandle, skateboard, set up a tent, or slip away to do drugs without too much difficulty.

[JManc]

I'm not sure why Texas's homeless numbers are so low because here in Houston, they are everywhere. Downtown and Midtown are overrun with them and virtually every intersection in the city has one on each median panhandling and this is a massive city. And Austin seems worse. They are more in your face.

[SIGSEGV]

I wonder if Texas counts differently

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

In Texas, it gets really hot and humid in the summer, so it's not a particularly comfortable place to be homeless. In fact, that's pretty much the case for the entire eastern US - either it's hot and muggy in the summer and/or it's freezing cold in the winter. That's not the case for the west coast, which tends to be mild all year round.

Though undoubtedly the regional drug scene is a factor. That was the impression I had in Grant's Pass (see first page of thread) - there were marijuana stores all over the place and the homeless people I saw there seemed more like they were vagabond types who like to do drugs and drift from place to place rather than hard core mentally ill types.

Look at Nevada. Similar rate to California, yet Las Vegas has quite a different climate than San Francisco.

It has to do with the culture that has developed in cities to turn a blind eye to taboo public behavior. The homeless know that there are no consequences to their awful behavior, therefore they continue to do it.

Enforce the laws and guess what happens?

Also look at Illinois. Low number and low rate of homelessness, then compare that to New York. Similar climate -- both have cold winters, hot/humid summers, similar rainfall totals.