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  #121  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 5:54 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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These cheap (when built), car-oriented early 1950s homes in Sunnyvale are the epitome of Sunbeltness to me.
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  #122  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 6:06 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
These cheap (when built), car-oriented early 1950s homes in Sunnyvale are the epitome of Sunbeltness to me.
Could not agree more

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  #123  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 6:13 PM
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The sunbelt around here refers to American places for snowbirds to go. So Phoenix, Florida, and Palm Springs.

Looks like everyone on this forum has their own definition.
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  #124  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 6:29 PM
craigs craigs is offline
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^Deep front yard, wide street frontage, three-letter address. Where is that?
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  #125  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 6:37 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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^Deep front yard, wide street frontage, three-letter address. Where is that?
Idk central Phoenix someplace that’s what older central Phoenix neighborhoods look like
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  #126  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 12:23 AM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
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There are houses like that in Ohio, which we might all agree is like the anti-sunbelt.

I think words like sunbelt, rust belt, bible belt, etc, are loaded terms that mean something particular. The sunbelt therefore cannot just be literally half the country. It can't just mean any place that had some sunbelt traits, it has to mean places that were fundamentally shaped by certain forces that correspond to certain eras in American history that have some cultural and political overtones as well.

To me, "sunbelt" is a way of characterizing places that grew quickly at the peak of the postwar economic mobility by selling a certain lifestyle or aura to a certain generation of Americans.

They'd have at least most of these traits:

1. An economy that has grown in spite of being mostly low-wage services or tourism focused(Florida). Or, places that developed things like a strong foundation of white collar jobs or prestigious universities only after a lot of people started moving there(San Diego). All the wealth was made outside and then imported.

2. Attractive to members of the Boomer and Greatest Generation who wanted to live in a particular type of suburbia and liked particular forms of leisure activities that have since become sort of passe elsewhere, like golf.

3. A retirement destination for old-school style snowbirds. Is there a Del Webb master planned community in the metro area? Are there manicured communities for 55+ people to toodle around in golf carts?

4. A lot of real estate investment is bubblicious. Places that saw the greatest overall riches to rags decline after the Great Recession.

5. A certain kind of sedentary vacationing and conference travel is a selling point.

6. Finally, the sun part. But specifically, sunny places that are either deserts with desert scenery and zero humidity or sunny places that are beachy and have palm trees. Not just any old subtropical or desert climate can do.
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  #127  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 12:33 AM
badrunner badrunner is offline
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Good effort but still not hair-splittingly specific enough for this forum.
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  #128  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 3:41 AM
liat91 liat91 is online now
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Post WW2, lots of domestic inflow, cookie cutter, southern half of country, generally cheaper than established coast and large population gains within a generation.

At least that’s my take. Denver and Salt Lake City live on the edges of the Sunbelt and qualify due to being strong in at least 3 of the criteria listed.

Jackson, Memphis and Albuquerque are Sunbelt because they are deep within the four corners of Phoenix, Vegas, Raleigh and Miami (Soon to be Orlando).
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  #129  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
LA grew rapidly in the 20s and 30s as a kind of prototype of what was to follow after WW2. Hollywood is very sunbelt in its origins. People moved to California to chase dreams. It lured folks from the Atlantic seaboard. I say it’s only mildly sunbelt because by the 80s it was facing troubled times and modern reborn LA isn’t sunbelty either.

Houston is a blue collar southern port city which became the undisputed global center of its chief industry, oil and chemicals. Dallas was an old school plains/middle America banking and commercial center not unlike Kansas City that became a corporate heavyweight.

Nothing about either was ever sunbelt, ever. Houston is way too working class and Dallas is too business focused, and the latter has somewhat cool winters.
This is the hugest stretch if there ever was one. If Houston and Dallas aren't Sunbelt, then no one is.
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  #130  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 2:28 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Off-topic but why do so many homes have such large front yards? No one uses it. Its such a waste. Is it just so the drive way can be longer?
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  #131  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 5:05 AM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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I am too lazy to read this entire quarrelsome thread, but surely somebody posted about the origins of the term "Sun Belt" by now. If not, there is this: https://www.thoughtco.com/sun-belt-i...states-1435569
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  #132  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 1:12 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Off-topic but why do so many homes have such large front yards? No one uses it. Its such a waste. Is it just so the drive way can be longer?
people like big yards and being set back from the street?

If you've not used your front yard you are missing out.
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  #133  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Off-topic but why do so many homes have such large front yards? No one uses it. Its such a waste. Is it just so the drive way can be longer?
They are a waste. I never use mine and require a lot of useless maintenance but I think it has to do with street noise, codes and aesthetics. I lived in a 1840's house in New England which was about 6 feet from the street and I heard every car passing by. My house here in Houston is about 20' from street and only hear big trucks.
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  #134  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 2:24 PM
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Regarding front yards, consumers like the curb appeal of a house being set back from the loud noisy, dangerous street. People generally don't want other people lurking around right outside their windows.

For anybody who has ever lived in a ground floor apartment in the city, then you would understand why people like to have a front yards whether they use the or not. Most use their backyards -- pool, bbq, fire pit etc.
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  #135  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Off-topic but why do so many homes have such large front yards? No one uses it.
"no one" is an awfully strong statement.

our building has a small front yard (all of about 350 SF of grass), and since our back "yard" is just a small patio tucked in between the back decks and the parking pad on the alley, our kids actually do play in our front yard all the time.

it's not uncommon at all to see children playing in the front yard/sidewalk/parkway in my neighborhood. backyards are either so tiny or non-existant (and chopped up with fences anyway) that the front of the buildings is usually the largest open space for kids to run around, ride scooters, toss a football, splash around in a wading pool, build a snowman, etc.
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  #136  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 3:25 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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I cant think of a better example of a stark difference when it comes to people inside and outside of the urban bubble.

In most places around the world asking why people like big yards would make their eyes cross.

Its like asking why people like eating or sleeping.
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  #137  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 3:48 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I cant think of a better example of a stark difference when it comes to people inside and outside of the urban bubble.

In most places around the world asking why people like big yards would make their eyes cross.

Its like asking why people like eating or sleeping.
Yards aren't really a thing outside of North America, so I'm sure many non-Americans would want to know the answer too.
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  #138  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 3:49 PM
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I have a decent size front and back yard. both used to be wide open green space which was great for kids to play and dogs to poop. and sometimes the other way around.

but I recently had the front redesigned to be more water-friendly, and the back I converted to a small garden with fruit trees and berry bushes. both are a massive improvement over the bland swath of grass they once were.

but mostly my front yard carries one purpose: for me to yell at young people to get the #@!$ off of it.

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  #139  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Boisebro View Post
I have a decent size front and back yard. both used to be wide open green space which was great for kids to play and dogs to poop. and sometimes the other way around.

but I recently had the front redesigned to be more water-friendly, and the back I converted to a small garden with fruit trees and berry bushes. both are a massive improvement over the bland swath of grass they once were.

but mostly my front yard carries one purpose: for me to yell at young people to get the #@!$ off of it.

Bingo. The only legit reason to have a front yard.

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  #140  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 10:22 PM
bossabreezes bossabreezes is offline
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Even though maybe not the best urban feature, yards do serve a purpose: they absorb water. They are very important in subtropical and tropical places that have high rainfall.

Otherwise, flooding can be a really big issue. In São Paulo, there are some neighborhoods with little area for absorption. This coupled with torrential summer storms and steep hills = streets turning into waterfalls that can sometimes take cars down with them.

In the neighborhoods with yards, this almost never happens.
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