HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture > Never Built & Visionary Projects > Cancelled Project Threads Archive


    Waterview Tower in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Comparison Diagram   • Chicago Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location
Chicago Projects & Construction Forum

 

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2921  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 1:55 PM
Texan101's Avatar
Texan101 Texan101 is offline
Onward
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Posts: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten View Post
Also, this makes me realize how underutilized Wolf Point really is. A parking lot on that location!?!?! That has almost Trumpt Tower like potential, at least in terms of views. I mean a sweet south AND east river view, I bet those cars in the lot are loving the view!
My eyes went exactly to that spot as well. Its kinda one of those that doesnt look right type deals. That location looks prime.

Awesome shots btw George, thanks for sharing.
     
     
  #2922  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 1:55 PM
BVictor1's Avatar
BVictor1 BVictor1 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten View Post
Also, this makes me realize how underutilized Wolf Point really is. A parking lot on that location!?!?! That has almost Trumpt Tower like potential, at least in terms of views. I mean a sweet south AND east river view, I bet those cars in the lot are loving the view!
Not that this is a Wolf Point thread, but I personally feel that you need to go bigger and bolder than a Trump Tower size building on that site. Design wise at least, it need to be kick ass.
__________________
titanic1
     
     
  #2923  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2009, 9:08 PM
The Pimp's Avatar
The Pimp The Pimp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago/Hamilton Lake Indiana
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
Not that this is a Wolf Point thread, but I personally feel that you need to go bigger and bolder than a Trump Tower size building on that site. Design wise at least, it need to be kick ass.
You're absolutely correct!
     
     
  #2924  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2009, 4:02 PM
Northwest Northwest is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by george View Post
Not to go too far off topic, but Wolf Point is going to be an epic location for a supertall. 444 West Lake isnt too shabby either. Those views down the east and south river canyons will be unparalled. Nice shot George, is there a rooftop deck on the west tower of Marina City?

Im not giving up hope on Waterview... it is... "too big to fail"
     
     
  #2925  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2009, 5:19 PM
george's Avatar
george george is offline
dream fast
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: east village, chicago
Posts: 3,289
^Thanks, Northwest. I love this view, I wish I had taken the shot. I found this pic on Flickr, photo credit goes to ifmuth.^
     
     
  #2926  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2009, 2:46 AM
Elian Mindprobe Elian Mindprobe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
What a shame. It looks like Ryugyong Hotel 2.0.
     
     
  #2927  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 2:42 AM
george's Avatar
george george is offline
dream fast
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: east village, chicago
Posts: 3,289
11-02

     
     
  #2928  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 2:46 AM
CHAPINM1's Avatar
CHAPINM1 CHAPINM1 is offline
JoeCooper
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Mindprobe View Post
What a shame. It looks like Ryugyong Hotel 2.0.
I'm not worried, even if it takes a few years this project will be completed.
__________________
A voice for the fallen.
     
     
  #2929  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 8:26 AM
Pizzuti Pizzuti is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
Not that this is a Wolf Point thread, but I personally feel that you need to go bigger and bolder than a Trump Tower size building on that site. Design wise at least, it need to be kick ass.
It seems a little far from the center of downtown for a supertall. It seems like only a couple blocks away you get to be outside of the zone of high-rises. I would say that, for now, somebody definitely ought to get rid of the parking lot and build something temporary that is more urban - an outdoor market, a park or something nice to look at and spend time in.

Even a permanent park and museum would be OK, but failing that, a medium-sized skyscraper with a really nice design would work nicely, I think. It's not that I'm against development, but I recognize that cities grow at realistic paces and whatever you build here takes away demand for development in the core of Downtown where major projects fit in better.
     
     
  #2930  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 3:03 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pungent Onion, Illinois
Posts: 8,492
^^^ I believe the issue with Wolf Point is that it has very poor transportation circulation. Its only accessible by one one-way street. I don't think anything other than a large high rise will be economically feasible because of the costs of reconfiguring the site so that its more easily accessible. I'm not quite sure how they plan to do this, but you really can't sustain a medium or small high rise when its completely isolated off on its own surrounded by water on three sides and by a huge ugly building on another with only access by a single 1-way street. Whatever is built there will only be attractive to tenants if it is a destination in its own right, a place where people are going to go out of their way to visit. Also, having a carroll street transit way would certainly greatly improve the circulation to the site adding a major mass transit connection to a difficult to access site.

I've heard that the potential solution to this circulation pattern is to connect Kingsbury around the west-side of the Apparel Mart to hook up with Mart Plaza or whatever that streets called. I don't know how this could be done without interfering with the Carroll Transitway, perhaps they would ramp Kingsbury up one level so its elevated like Mart Plaza, or without having to fill in the river a bit. I have a feeling that Wolf Point may be in for a huge reconstruction project in conjunction with the tower plans and the transitway plans that would reconfigure the whole point in one shot during the next boom.

However I would prefer that they would just partially follow the Burnham Plan and create another bridge west across the river from Wolf Point though the railways on the other side would make that exceedingly difficult.
     
     
  #2931  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2009, 9:51 PM
Northwest Northwest is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzuti View Post
It seems a little far from the center of downtown for a supertall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ I believe the issue with Wolf Point is that it has very poor transportation circulation.
The same is true for the Chicago Spire site.
The attraction here is not simply convenience, but the absolutely stunning views, and one-of-a-kind location. Its obvious that a large portion of this site will be residential. I'd like to see a massive, yet beautified "podium" with attractive retail, office, hotel, and parking occupy the first ~20 floors (with the ugly middle finger facing the Apparel Mart). A stunning, architechturally superb supertall should rise out of that, compliment its unique location, and leaving the tip of the point as a public park/plaza.

Those people who are too lazy to walk the extra block can buy a condo at Waterview.
     
     
  #2932  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2009, 5:32 AM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pungent Onion, Illinois
Posts: 8,492
^^^ No, it is not the same for many reasons. For one thing what is proposed at Wolf Point would be at least partially office which generates much higher peak traffic. And its not an issue of walking (though Wolf Point is very inconvenient to walk to right now), its an issue of how to get thousands of cars a day in and out of the site without causing a massive traffic jam.

Secondly, how could even consider for one second that the Spire site is less accessible? I mean it has an eight lane freeway double decked with a four lane major arterial street running right through it. How is that unaccessible. That's like saying Walmarts built next to freeways have the problem of being unaccessible. In addition to the major arterial and freeway there is also fully functioning two-way street that dead ends in the site which is much more useful than only having a single one way street that is only tangent to the site.

Also, its not "obvious" that a large part of this site will be residential. The office district is moving north as the loop runs out of buildable sites as evidenced by the construction of 353 N. Clark and 300 N. LaSalle. River views are just as profitable if not more for office buildings as they are for residential buildings. The latest proposal was about 50% office, 25% hotel, and 25% residential. So 75% of the use of the site would be major traffic generating activities that require a lot of accessibility.

Whatever is built at Wolf Point will probably have below grade parking because its such a large site and "grade" is at least one or two stories above the actual ground level due to decked streets like at Aqua. Also, the views will be so great that no developer in their right mind would waste them with a large Trump-like podium. The reason you see podiums at Trump and Waterview is that the sites are so constrained and small that building a full below-grade garage would be hugely expensive. Wolf Point, by comparison, is huge and will already have to be completely built up by two stories to be level with the streets anyhow, so below grade parking there would only make sense.
     
     
  #2933  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:15 AM
Loopy's Avatar
Loopy Loopy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 665
.

Last edited by Loopy; May 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM.
     
     
  #2934  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:32 AM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 17,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
Heard some buzz today. 111 West Wacker. Mixed-Use, Office/Hotel. 55 floors.
Well that's a shame.
     
     
  #2935  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:55 AM
emathias's Avatar
emathias emathias is online now
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ I believe the issue with Wolf Point is that it has very poor transportation circulation. Its only accessible by one one-way street. I don't think anything other than a large high rise will be economically feasible because of the costs of reconfiguring the site so that its more easily accessible. I'm not quite sure how they plan to do this, ...
This is why I asked about extending Merchandise Mart Plaza west over the river to Desplaines a couple weeks ago. Expensive? Yes. Useful? Possibly. Not nearly as expensive as a tunnel from the east end of Fulton curved under Wolf Point connecting to Kingsbury, though.

Of course, if they just made Wells and Orleans 2-way north of the MM Plaza and actually built the Carol Street Transitway, connecting it with the West Loop, Streeterville and the Michigan Ave corridor, the might not need anything else.
     
     
  #2936  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 2:45 AM
ChicagoChicago ChicagoChicago is offline
Chicago carpetbagger
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chicago, Atlanta, Nashville
Posts: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
Heard some buzz today. 111 West Wacker. Mixed-Use, Office/Hotel. 55 floors.
Care to indulge us with your source? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just curious who is thinking anything about this site while $80mm in liens sit on it.
     
     
  #2937  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 3:16 AM
Loopy's Avatar
Loopy Loopy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 665
.

Last edited by Loopy; May 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM.
     
     
  #2938  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 3:25 AM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pungent Onion, Illinois
Posts: 8,492
^^^ I could care less about the height if the design is sick. Hopefully they'll do something awesome with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
Not nearly as expensive as a tunnel from the east end of Fulton curved under Wolf Point connecting to Kingsbury, though.
Oh no, it wouldn't be a tunnel, Kingsbury actually shifts to the west and continues as a stub for half a block between the Apparel Mart and the river, check it out on google maps. I hear they were considering just extending it around the SW corner of Apparel Mart to allow a western entrance to the site.
     
     
  #2939  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 4:06 AM
chicubs111 chicubs111 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
Heard some buzz today. 111 West Wacker. Mixed-Use, Office/Hotel. 55 floors.
Perhaps 55 floors on top of whats already there possibly?...I mean there is already 25 plus floors done already?
     
     
  #2940  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 3:43 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 21,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ I could care less about the height if the design is sick. Hopefully they'll do something awesome with it.
yep. at this point design is all that matters with this project. i'm sick and tired of staring at that poor old concrete hulk across the river from my balcony.
__________________
This one has purple in it. Purple is a fruit.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
 

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture > Never Built & Visionary Projects > Cancelled Project Threads Archive
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:28 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.