Moncton Subthread

drewber · #1 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 12:28 AM**

Curious how people feel about Moncton deserving a sub forum on the forum. We have the third largest CMA in Atlantic Canada and in a 5 year span had a larger growth rate than even Halifax. I think it could be easier for all the threads to be organized within a Sub forum and just wondered how everyone else felt or if it was even a possibility.

Fischbob · #2 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 1:46 AM**

I personally like having all of New Brunswick together in the main Atlantic forum. I think it makes for a bit more interaction between the cities when we aren't all in little subforum bubbles.

We are seeing momentum in all 3 big NB cities and the need for more project and topic-specific threads for each metropolitan area is certainly going to grow, but I don't think we're anywhere near the stage of the forum getting overwhelmed or hard to follow. My vote would be to continue with the setup we have now.

MonctonRad · #3 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 2:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewber

Curious how people feel about Moncton deserving a sub thread on the forum. We have the third largest CMA in Atlantic Canada and in a 5 year span had a larger growth rate than even Halifax. I think it could be easier for all the threads to be organized within a Sub thread and just wondered how everyone else felt or if it was even a possibility.

The proper term is a sub-forum, and yes, I'm currently of the same mind as Fischbob about this.

About five years ago, we lobbied for a Moncton sub-forum at the same time as St. John's was lobbying for their own sub-forum. The idea was not popular with SSP management because existing sub-forums are generally reserved for cities over about 500,000 residents. They reluctantly gave in to St. John's and told us that they would monitor our activity to see if a Moncton sub-forum was justified.

The Moncton threads are pretty active and a sub-forum might be justified on the basis of this, but our CMA is still less than 160,000 people, so I think SSP management would still be disinclined to acquiesce to our request.

Sub-forums tend to fragment the SSP community. The Halifax sub-forum has stifled any chatter from the remainder of the province. The same thing has happened in NL with the St. John's sub-forum. There used to be a reasonably active thread for Corner Brook and western Newfoundland, but it was effectively orphaned when the sub-forum for St. John's got established. What would happen to the Northern NB thread if the three NB cities each had their own sub-forum? I think it would wither and die too.

In the current arrangement, when I open the page, I see threads for all three cities with updates. I usually read them all. That would change with sub-forums. I think I prefer the current situation for now.

theshark · #4 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 3:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The proper term is a sub-forum, and yes, I'm currently of the same mind as Fischbob about this.

What would happen to the Northern NB thread if the three NB cities each had their own sub-forum? I think it would wither and die too.

Don't Worry, I would still be there, updating who wants to hear what's happening in the north "#Ithenorth" lol

I agree things should stay as they are, the threads are well identified and it makes it easy to go around and catch up real quick.

I remember before they did the Halifax sub-forum, the Moncton VS Halifax "Discussions" where frequent, now they happen just once in a blue moon

Djeffery · #5 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 3:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The proper term is a sub-forum, and yes, I'm currently of the same mind as Fischbob about this.

About five years ago, we lobbied for a Moncton sub-forum at the same time as St. John's was lobbying for their own sub-forum. The idea was not popular with SSP management because existing sub-forums are generally reserved for cities over about 500,000 residents. They reluctantly gave in to St. John's and told us that they would monitor our activity to see if a Moncton sub-forum was justified.

The Moncton threads are pretty active and a sub-forum might be justified on the basis of this, but our CMA is still less than 160,000 people, so I think SSP management would still be disinclined to acquiesce to our request.

Sub-forums tend to fragment the SSP community. The Halifax sub-forum has stifled any chatter from the remainder of the province. The same thing has happened in NL with the St. John's sub-forum. There used to be a reasonably active thread for Corner Brook and western Newfoundland, but it was effectively orphaned when the sub-forum for St. John's got established. What would happen to the Northern NB thread if the three NB cities each had their own sub-forum? I think it would wither and die too.

In the current arrangement, when I open the page, I see threads for all three cities with updates. I usually read them all. That would change with sub-forums. I think I prefer the current situation for now.

And yet it's been 9 days since the last post in the largest CMA with their own sub-forum lol.

Taeolas · #6 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 3:50 AM**

I pretty much agree with what's been said overall.

While we do generate a lot of traffic, it feels well organized and the discussions don't seem to overwhelm other talk.

Now if the Atlantic Provinces board was so active that we regularly had a full page of active threads each day, then maybe then it would be worth splitting apart by province and/or cities. But for now, it feels cozy and doesn't feel like we need to separate further. (I'd almost argue maybe the Saint Johns and/or Halifax forums should be folded back in, but it's not my call).

Now, next year or so, Freddy will officially become a CMA, and we'll probably break out 3-4 more threads for Freddy discussions around then (Retail, Northside, Uptown, Downtown, University, Suburbs maybe?), plus some active projects going on in all the cities hopefully. But even then I don't see activity spiking enough to warrant further subdivisions.

q12 · #7 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewber

in a 5 year span had a larger growth rate than even Halifax.

Wrong.

Halifax's growth rate and absolute growth are higher than Moncton over the last 5 years.

Charlottetown's growth rate and absolute growth are higher than Moncton.

2014-2018 Population increases
Halifax _______ +23,453

Charlottetown __+8,035

Moncton ______ +6,996

Fredericton ____ +5,880

St. John's, NL ___+4,265

Saint John, NB __+1,559

Freddypop · #8 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 4:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewber

Curious how people feel about Moncton deserving a sub forum on the forum. We have the third largest CMA in Atlantic Canada and in a 5 year span had a larger growth rate than even Halifax. I think it could be easier for all the threads to be organized within a Sub forum and just wondered how everyone else felt or if it was even a possibility.

If it ain't broke.....

ColSJ · #9 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 4:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

Wrong.

Halifax's growth rate and absolute growth are higher than Moncton over the last 5 years.

Charlottetown's growth rate and absolute growth are higher than Moncton.

2014-2018 Population increases
Halifax _______ +23,453

Charlottetown __+8,035

Moncton ______ +6,996

Fredericton ____ +5,880

St. John's, NL ___+4,265

Saint John, NB __+1,559

Where did you get these numbers?

q12 · #10 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Where did you get these numbers?

These are the latest numbers from Stats Canada:

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1710013501

Population change by census metropolitan area (CMA), 2017-2018

Population change (%)
Halifax 2.0%
Moncton 1.4%
Saint John 0.4%
St. John's 0.0%

2017-2018 Population increases
Halifax _______ +8,544

Charlottetown __+2,231

Moncton ______ +2,112

Fredericton ____ +1,827

Saint John, NB __+558

St. John's, NL ___+100

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...g-b001-eng.htm

JHikka · #11 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

Wrong.

Halifax's growth rate and absolute growth are higher than Moncton over the last 5 years.

Charlottetown's growth rate and absolute growth are higher than Moncton.

From the last census, Moncton's growth rate 2011-2016 as a percentage increase was higher (4.0%) than Halifax's (3.3%) over that same time period. [Source]

You provided raw growth numbers (not what drewber referenced) and then offered one year growth rate (also not what drewber referenced). Estimate numbers can be finicky, so if we're going to use census-to-census rate increases then drewber's comment is technically correct, since 2011-2016 is the last five-year window we have.

I know we all love a good Halifax-Moncton butting of heads but this thread really wasn't about disputing Moncton's growth v. Halifax.

q12 · #12 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

From the last census, Moncton's growth rate 2011-2016 as a percentage increase was higher (4.0%) than Halifax's (3.3%) over that same time period. [Source]

You provided raw growth numbers (not what drewber referenced) and then offered one year growth rate (also not what drewber referenced). Estimate numbers can be finicky, so if we're going to use census-to-census rate increases then drewber's comment is technically correct, since 2011-2016 is the last five-year window we have.

I know we all love a good Halifax-Moncton butting of heads but this thread really wasn't about disputing Moncton's growth v. Halifax.

No estimates are considered more accurate for many reasons.

Keep drinkin' the kool-aid New Brunswick!

josh_cat_eyes · #13 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 5:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

No estimates are considered more accurate for many reasons.

Keep drinkin' the kool-aid New Brunswick!

Did I miss something in school where they taught you that guessing was more accurate than actually counting something? The estimate might be more representative of the actual current population but it sure as hell isn’t more accurate than the official count.

Franco401 · #14 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 6:04 PM**

We should definitely let this cool off until the next actual census.

jonny golden · #15 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 6:22 PM**

The original question was should Moncton have a sub-forum. At first I thought it might be a good idea. But upon reflection I think things are fine as they are.

q12 · #16 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Did I miss something in school where they taught you that guessing was more accurate than actually counting something? The estimate might be more representative of the actual current population but it sure as hell isn’t more accurate than the official count.

Statistics Canada knows not everyone completes their census forms and returns them. Therefore the estimates are based on multiple pieces of data available to Statistics Canada than will reflect a more accurate population number.

Read Statistics Canada explanation here:

Quote:

Differences between Statistics Canada's census counts and population estimates
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/hp/estima

I would agree that with smaller communities the actual census numbers may be more accurate but larger CMA's like Moncton or Halifax the estimates tend to be more accurate than the actual census.

The 2014-2018 estimates I quoted above are the most up-to-date/best available information. Governments are using these estimates to make important decisions. So based on the latest official data, Halifax and Charlottetown have a higher growth rate than Moncton over the past 5 years.

I know many minds have just been blown in the Moncton forums when they found out they aren't the fastest growing city in Atlantic Canada and those of us in Halifax and Charlottetown have you in our thoughts and prayers...

MonctonRad · #17 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 6:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

Keep drinkin' the kool-aid New Brunswick!

What the frig is up with this? The intent of the OP was to trigger a discussion as to whether or not a Moncton sub-forum was a good idea or not. Halifax bashing was not the intent. Despite this, it appears that the only thing (person) the OP triggered was you q12...........

MonctonRad · #18 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 6:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

I know many minds have just been blown in the Moncton forums when they found out they aren't the fastest growing city in Atlantic Canada and those of us in Halifax and Charlottetown have you in our thoughts and prayers...

The intent of the OP was to stimulate a discussion of the worthiness of a Moncton sub-forum. If the wording of his question offended your sensibilities, I'm sure he regrets it, or, if you keep gnawing on that bone, I'm sure he soon will........

theshark · #19 Posted **Jan 26, 2020, 11:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshark

I remember before they did the Halifax sub-forum, the Moncton VS Halifax "Discussions" where frequent, now they happen just once in a blue moon

I guess it was a blue moon!!

lirette · #20 Posted **Jan 27, 2020, 12:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

No estimates are considered more accurate for many reasons.

Keep drinkin' the kool-aid New Brunswick!

Who is drinking the Kool aid? Your tone & posting style just comes off as combative as soon as you entered the thread as if you were looking for Moncton vs Halifax argument.

Putting "wrong" bold & underlined is simply condescending. It's especially silly if you call someone factually wrong so aggressively and then use estimates as your counter point. In your opinion your prefer the estimates which is totally fine as well.

There's nothing wrong with a healthy discussion with opinion & fact but it's clearly aggravated you that someone posted something positive about Moncton. I live in the Moncton area & spend lots of time in Halifax and both cities are going through exciting times relative to their city sizes. Let's keep focusing on the positive and stop with the toxic rivalry crap.

East coasters bring people together than anyone. Let's try & do that instead by celebrating the excellent growth in Atlantic Canada as a whole.