The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Fair point. Of course the mainstream media is hamstrung by the needs to have a verifiable source for a news story. We on the other hand are free to report random rumours and then haggle over how much veracity these rumours have.

[MonctonRad]

Interesting article in the T&T today.

The headline reads that it is pretty darned time for a fifth anglophone high school in greater Moncton (seventh in total).

Our existing high schools of course are MHS, HTHS, BMHS & RHS on the anglophone side and Mathieu-Martin & l'Odyssee on the francophone side.

According to the article, increased enrolment, especially spurred by burgeoning immigrant populations, are pushing the anglophone high schools to the limit. Apparently even the newly built MHS is only 18 students below capacity and they are looking at bringing portables in for next year.

The Anglophone East School Board hinted in their interview that they felt the new high school should go in the northwest end of the city, which makes sense in that this is the most rapidly growing section of the city, and in only the last 20 years or so, there has been construction of Evergreen Park, Northrup Frye and Maplehurst Middle School in the area to service the burgeoning anglophone population (and Ecole le Sommet for the francophone population). As such, there are feeder schools in the neighbourhood already to supply and support a new anglophone high school.

Councillor Greg Turner was interviewed for the article and said he personally believed that a new anglophone high school should be built in the Vision Lands. I disagree though. All due respects to Councillor Turner, but the "Vision Lands" are not part of the northwest end. Since the Vision Lands lie east of Mapleton Road, I would personally consider this area as part of "Moncton East". A new high school here would be several km from the majority of it's proposed catchment area (shades of the MHS debacle).

I know what Councillor Turner is attempting to do. He knows that school location can be a primary driver of population growth and neighbourhood development. He's looking for a project to help drive residential development in the Vision Lands. A new anglophone high school in this area could do the trick. The problem is though that there are no anglophone primary or middle schools in the Vision Lands. Most people care more about being within walking distance to neighbourhood schools when their children are younger. A new high school therefore would not drive growth in the Vision Lands as much as a new anglophone primary school would.

The foundations for a new anglophone high school already exist in the northwest end (a sizeable population of nearly 20,000 and three existing primary and middle schools to drive enrolment). The new school therefore belongs in the northwest end.

The main problem is where in the northwest end to build it? Since almost all the population in the NW end is south of the TCH, ideally the new school should be south of the TCH too, but high schools need a large footprint for the building, parking lots and sports fields. Land sufficiently large enough in the area to accommodate such a school is rapidly disappearing.

It behooves the school board to scout out an appropriate site now, and identify this property to the Department of Education so that the wheels can be put in motion for possible purchase. Any delay in this process might impact on proper site selection..........

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting article in the T&T today.

The headline reads that it is pretty darned time for a fifth anglophone high school in greater Moncton (seventh in total).

Our existing high schools of course are MHS, HTHS, BMHS & RHS on the anglophone side and Mathieu-Martin & l'Odyssee on the francophone side.

According to the article, increased enrolment, especially spurred by burgeoning immigrant populations, are pushing the anglophone high schools to the limit. Apparently even the newly built MHS is only 18 students below capacity and they are looking at bringing portables in for next year.

The Anglophone East School Board hinted in their interview that they felt the new high school should go in the northwest end of the city, which makes sense in that this is the most rapidly growing section of the city, and in only the last 20 years or so, there has been construction of Evergreen Park, Northrup Frye and Maplehurst Middle School in the area to service the burgeoning anglophone population (and Ecole le Sommet for the francophone population). As such, there are feeder schools in the neighbourhood already to supply and support a new anglophone high school.

Councillor Greg Turner was interviewed for the article and said he personally believed that a new anglophone high school should be built in the Vision Lands. I disagree though. All due respects to Councillor Turner, but the "Vision Lands" are not part of the northwest end. Since the Vision Lands lie east of Mapleton Road, I would personally consider this area as part of "Moncton East". A new high school here would be several km from the majority of it's proposed catchment area (shades of the MHS debacle).

I know what Councillor Turner is attempting to do. He knows that school location can be a primary driver of population growth and neighbourhood development. He's looking for a project to help drive residential development in the Vision Lands. A new anglophone high school in this area could do the trick. The problem is though that there are no anglophone primary or middle schools in the Vision Lands. Most people care more about being within walking distance to neighbourhood schools when their children are younger. A new high school therefore would not drive growth in the Vision Lands as much as a new anglophone primary school would.

The foundations for a new anglophone high school already exist in the northwest end (a sizeable population of nearly 20,000 and three existing primary and middle schools to drive enrolment). The new school therefore belongs in the northwest end.

The main problem is where in the northwest end to build it? Since almost all the population in the NW end is south of the TCH, ideally the new school should be south of the TCH too, but high schools need a large footprint for the building, parking lots and sports fields. Land sufficiently large enough in the area to accommodate such a school is rapidly disappearing.

It behooves the school board to scout out an appropriate site now, and identify this property to the Department of Education so that the wheels can be put in motion for possible purchase. Any delay in this process might impact on proper site selection..........

Vision lands may actually be a great site for a highschool. I believe the Northwest Trail is designed to follow the powerlines behind the Trinity Power Centre to the future Louis J. Robichaud Blvd (and Mapleton Park) and the future trail system will extend along Wheeler Blvd to University Moncton. So families in the North end could bike to all the sporting services at U de M in 15-20 mins by bike. Also, the Vision Lands is the last large land parcel the city has to develop WITHIN the municipal boundary and all the major infra-structure is already built with Mapleton Road providing safe and controlled entry points at Louis J Robichaud, the new public road into new Kent site (old Day and Ross) and Lady Ada. Where else is the city going to come up with 25 acres for a school site? By the dump maybe? Further toward Sussex? Does that make any sense? How much infra-structure would that cost? Should we be moving economical stimulus such as a school to land within the municipal boundaries that is ripe for development and major economical gain, such as the Vision Lands? And we have a chance to get it right and develop a modern urban plan for the Vision Lands as it is a blank canvas. I am in support of Councilor Turner for a School in the Vision Lands.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Allowing the rural estates development to happen has back them into a corner. Had that development not been allowed to happen, there would be lots of space for a high school. What I would do is extend timberway lane all the way to Ryan Road and build the high school on the south side of this extension. They would have to buy a half dozen houses but what other choices do they have? I may have suggested the trailer park behind the liquor store off of Mountain, but those huge apartments on Ivry have made that site substantially smaller.

[MonctonRad]

Well, time to add my two cents.

I think the province should consider the land on the NW corner of the Berry Mills Road/Horsman Road intersection.

I realize that Berry Mills Road is a very busy highway and a main connector between the city core and the TCH, but we are talking about a high school here. I would never make this suggestion for a primary or middle school, but I think high school students have enough sense not to wander out into traffic, and, with proper berms, landscaping and foliage, I think you could mitigate a lot of the noise emanating from Berry Mills Road.

Why here? Look at this locator map I created below. This is the city zoning map zeroed into this neighbourhood.



Look at how conveniently located this parcel of land is to both Evergreen Park School and to Maplehurst Middle School. Some kids in the neighbourhood could easily attend all three schools from K-12 and never need to ride a school bus ever!!!

The clustering of these schools makes a lot of sense, and access to all three schools is easy because they are all oriented near to the main southern entry into the Evergreen/Kingswood neighbourhood, ie - along the Horsman Road/Twin Oaks Drive axis. The trail system already connects Maplehurst Middle School, the new North End YMCA, Ecole le Sommet and could easily be extended to the new high school. Evergreen Park School is close to the Northwest Trail. Biking to school would be simple for a large portion of the Moncton Northwest community.

This makes a lot more sense than locating the school kilometres away on the Vision Lands.

The zoning is already perfect. It's zoned P-1 (Community Uses). No rezoning necessary!!

EDIT - I just realized I mislabeled the French school as l'Odyssee on the map. It is of course Ecole le Sommet - my bad...........

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, time to add my two cents.

I think the province should consider the land on the NW corner of the Berry Mills Road/Horsman Road intersection.

I realize that Berry Mills Road is a very busy highway and a main connector between the city core and the TCH, but we are talking about a high school here. I would never make this suggestion for a primary or middle school, but I think high school students have enough sense not to wander out into traffic, and, with proper berms, landscaping and foliage, I think you could mitigate a lot of the noise emanating from Berry Mills Road.

Why here? Look at this locator map I created below. This is the city zoning map zeroed into this neighbourhood.



Look at how conveniently located this parcel of land is to both Evergreen Park School and to Maplehurst Middle School. Some kids in the neighbourhood could easily attend all three schools from K-12 and never need to ride a school bus ever!!!

The clustering of these schools makes a lot of sense, and access to all three schools is easy because they are all oriented near to the main southern entry into the Evergreen/Kingswood neighbourhood, ie - along the Horsman Road/Twin Oaks Drive axis. The trail system already connects Maplehurst Middle School, the new North End YMCA, Ecole le Sommet and could easily be extended to the new high school. Evergreen Park School is close to the Northwest Trail. Biking to school would be simple for a large portion of the Moncton Northwest community.

This makes a lot more sense than locating the school kilometres away on the Vision Lands.

The zoning is already perfect. It's zoned P-1 (Community Uses). No rezoning necessary!!

EDIT - I just realized I mislabeled the French school as l'Odyssee on the map. It is of course Ecole le Sommet - my bad...........

Looks like a major watercourse on that land? There would be substantial setbacks from the watercourse complicated by a triangular piece of land, not sure if that would work. Does it make sense to put a highschool where all land is essentially developed? Where do the new families move into? They will be kilometers away, and have to drive to this highschool in 10yrs once this neighborhoods kids grow up. I think a better long term plan is to serve existing with reason, but setting up to serve families to come, may be a better balance.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ifyoubuildit

Looks like a major watercourse on that land? There would be substantial setbacks from the watercourse complicated by a triangular piece of land, not sure if that would work. Does it make sense to put a highschool where all land is essentially developed? Where do the new families move into? They will be kilometers away, and have to drive to this highschool in 10yrs once this neighborhoods kids grow up. I think a better long term plan is to serve existing with reason, but setting up to serve families to come, may be a better balance.

The watercourse is a stream about 10 feet across. It's a nice stream, and should be preserved. It lies at the periphery of the property, only traversing it towards the west where it crosses Berry Mills Road. I don't think the presence of the stream would prevent the construction of a high school. The stream in fact could enhance the natural environment around the school.

One possibility would be to locate the sports field on the western edge of the property, paralleling Berry Mills Road, accessed by a footpath and a footbridge over the stream - how cool would that be!

Regarding your other point about how neighbourhoods age and how this could affect school age populations, there is no question this has been an issue in the past (look at the low student population at Edith Cavell or Hillcrest as an example), but those are inner city schools. In the true suburbs, people move into and out of the subdivisions all the time, and there is a constant replenishment of school aged children. In my immediate neighbourhood, there has been about a 75% turnover in the homeownership over the last 20 years. A lot of the people moving in are middle managers from central Canada, or better off international immigrants. These are new people with small children replacing other people, some of which no longer have children at home and looking to downsize. I think the Evergreen/Kingswood/Hildegarde area is somewhat immune to the fate of an evolving and aging neighbourhood.

[MonctonRad]

Huddle article about the "State of the Tri-Community" address given by the three mayors earlier today

Cranes On The Skyline Come With Affordable Housing Challenges For Greater Moncton
Jan 30, 2020 by Inda Intiar
https://huddle.today/cranes-on-the-s...stEnH3TiV0kGRA

[tmacdougall]

Just read Monday's city council meeting agenda. Under section 7, planning matters, its states 'New Brunswick Department of Transportation and Infrastructure/J.D. Irving Limited Subdivisions.'

This peaked my interests but have no idea what it could be.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by tmacdougall

Just read Monday's city council meeting agenda. Under section 7, planning matters, its states 'New Brunswick Department of Transportation and Infrastructure/J.D. Irving Limited Subdivisions.'

This peaked my interests but have no idea what it could be.

New Kent store off Mapleton I believe

[josh_cat_eyes]

If there were to be a new high school built in the north end of Moncton, what would the feeder schools be of it and of the remaining high schools?
Horsemen High School (calling it that based on MonctonRad’s excellent location choice) would have Magnetic Hill, Evergreen, Northrop Fry & Maplehurst correct?

[MonctonRad]

Final assignment of feeder schools would be up to the district, but that would be my assumption, yes.

[b2dam]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

If there were to be a new high school built in the north end of Moncton, what would the feeder schools be of it and of the remaining high schools?
Horsemen High School (calling it that based on MonctonRad’s excellent location choice) would have Magnetic Hill, Evergreen, Northrop Fry & Maplehurst correct?

I'd be curious where that would leave BMHS as it's current feeder schools are Bessborough, Evergreen and Hillcrest. Would just Bessborough and Hillcrest be enough to fill it?

Also would be curious to see if taking Magnetic Hill and Northrop Frye/Maplehurst kids from Harrison Trimble would result in them being replaced by Edith Cavell students. They are much closer to Trimble than MHS. But then that would potentially leave a gap at MHS.

As for location, someplace on Gorge rd, maybe across the street from the walking park entrance?

[MonctonRad]

MHS is at capacity and they are considering portables

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by b2dam

As for location, someplace on Gorge rd, maybe across the street from the walking park entrance?

If by “across the street from the walking park” you mean across from the Gorge Road entrance to Mapleton Park, that area is mostly floodplain for Halls Creek.

The high school could be built further out Gorge Road, beyond the TCH on the other side of Crandall University, but that puts it pretty far away from where the majority of the population of the catchment area lives.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by b2dam

I'd be curious where that would leave BMHS as it's current feeder schools are Bessborough, Evergreen and Hillcrest. Would just Bessborough and Hillcrest be enough to fill it?

Also would be curious to see if taking Magnetic Hill and Northrop Frye/Maplehurst kids from Harrison Trimble would result in them being replaced by Edith Cavell students. They are much closer to Trimble than MHS. But then that would potentially leave a gap at MHS.

As for location, someplace on Gorge rd, maybe across the street from the walking park entrance?

What are the feeders of the other High Schools? If Moncton High is currently overcrowded, would taking Edith Cavell students and sending them to BMHS work?

[b2dam]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

What are the feeders of the other High Schools? If Moncton High is currently overcrowded, would taking Edith Cavell students and sending them to BMHS work?

From what I know

MHS - Lewisville (Arnold H. Macleod, Lou Macnairn), Sunny Brae(Forest Glen, Mountain View), Edith Cavell and Shediac Cape

HTHS - Queen Elizabeth, Birchmount, Beaverbrook, Magnetic Hill and Maplehurst(Northrop-Frye, Queen E.)

BMHS - Bessborough, Hillcrest, Maplehurst(Evergreen)

RHS - Riverview Middle, not sure who else

It's a little weird in the North-end and I'm not sure what they are going to be doing going forward there. I think kids in Valhalla Estates (behind the Papa Johns) had been going to Queen E up until this year. I don't know if kids living there will keep going to Queen for early years, or if they will be going to Evergreen or NF from now on.

I assume the influx of students at MHS is coming from Dieppe. As I've heard Lou Macnairn is also over capacity due to an influx of new residents coming into the city.

[Ammn_guy]

Valhalla is switching to evergreen in sept.


I could see them moving all maplehurst to the new school and moving magnetic hill kids to bmhs to back fill. they already bus them to trimble, probrably faster to hit wheeler to bmhs from the north end/barrys mils

Edith cavell transitioning to HTHS to make more room for dieppe anglo kids at MHS, its kinda weird as they are way closer to
hths then moncton high.

Originally Posted by b2dam

From what I know

MHS - Lewisville (Arnold H. Macleod, Lou Macnairn), Sunny Brae(Forest Glen, Mountain View), Edith Cavell and Shediac Cape

HTHS - Queen Elizabeth, Birchmount, Beaverbrook, Magnetic Hill and Maplehurst(Northrop-Frye, Queen E.)

BMHS - Bessborough, Hillcrest, Maplehurst(Evergreen)

RHS - Riverview Middle, not sure who else

It's a little weird in the North-end and I'm not sure what they are going to be doing going forward there. I think kids in Valhalla Estates (behind the Papa Johns) had been going to Queen E up until this year. I don't know if kids living there will keep going to Queen for early years, or if they will be going to Evergreen or NF from now on.

I assume the influx of students at MHS is coming from Dieppe. As I've heard Lou Macnairn is also over capacity due to an influx of new residents coming into the city.

[b2dam]

Originally Posted by Ammn_guy

I could see them moving all maplehurst to the new school and moving magnetic hill kids to bmhs to back fill. they already bus them to trimble, probrably faster to hit wheeler to bmhs from the north end/barrys mils

Edith cavell transitioning to HTHS to make more room for dieppe anglo kids at MHS, its kinda weird as they are way closer to
hths then moncton high.

EC should definitely be going to Trimble. I feel they only kept them going to MHS for historic reasons.

For Magnetic Hill, I think they could be sent to any of the current 3 high schools in Moncton and it would take the same amount of time for them. But if they're going to be building a new high school down in the North-end they should make it big enough to accommodate Evergreen, Northrop-Frye and Magnetic Hill. That's assuming Magnetic Hill has a smaller number of students like Hillcrest or EC. I'm sure building a high school for 1500 to 2000 students would be a tall order

[MonctonRad]

Link to the agenda for the February meeting of the Moncton PAC:

https://www.moncton.ca/lets-do-busin...sory-committee