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  #9541  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 2:27 AM
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armorand93 armorand93 is offline
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Munther at food fare is giving his employees baseball bats.A deterrant I guess. But could just escalate the problem even further.
I know the Zeids, they're reasonable guys. Its not like they'll beat the living shit out of somebody, unless its provoked and escalated. Which if its a methhead stealing their products, then the staff should obviously have a right to defend themselves and their bottom lines. It won't be anarchy, plus Foodfare inner city locations are on the front line anyways... if WPS will just stand there and ticket the poor guy for opening on a holiday, then honestly, what vote of confidence could the Zeid family give to WPS, if they can't/won't do anything, besides handing out tickets? Lets just see what happens with the bats. But honestly, i can't see him escalating in such a way. And if its by another party (the shoplifter), then:

a) file charges/blacklist person, if possible
b) secure entry
c) start a citizens concern group
d) go to the mayors office
e) complain to the federal RCMP and various watchdogs, if WPS doesn't help Foodfare/avoids Foodfare service calls...

Plenty of reasonable de-escalation methods as well. The bats might escalate it, yes, but kind of like nuclear weapons... the threat of destruction - for example, the shoplifters limbs - might actually be a sufficient deterrent. And even if the cops said "no, this isn't happening", he now has a Winnipeg Sun article showing how far he will go. So maybe thats enough deterrent itself, to send the message.
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  #9542  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 2:37 AM
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What are they going to do with the bats though. A person is running out the store with arms full of meat. They're going to whack them on the leg? That's assault with a weapon, unfortunately.. only thing it would be good for is if the perp has a weapon. Now your employees are in an armed fight in your store.

Better to have something to defend yourself of course. Just a lot of risk for an employer to be doing that, something happens. Someone dies..
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  #9543  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 5:39 AM
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What are they going to do with the bats though. A person is running out the store with arms full of meat. They're going to whack them on the leg? That's assault with a weapon, unfortunately.. only thing it would be good for is if the perp has a weapon. Now your employees are in an armed fight in your store.

Better to have something to defend yourself of course. Just a lot of risk for an employer to be doing that, something happens. Someone dies..
Restraint and barrier to exit was my first thought that came to mind, but obviously, can just be a melee weapon too. Appropriate force is allowed, if I remember the law correctly. For example, they could try and prevent exit with the bats, plus defensive purposes. That leaves the meat robber two options: walk out free and "stuff please", or escalation. Robber escalates, most likely with bare hands, a melee weapon of his own, rubber chicken, etc etc. Then comes justifiable and reasonable force. Not an excuse to beat the criminal into a coma... but reasonable force to potentially detain and arrest (citizens) is already allowed under law. WPS has publicly advertised against it, but under federal law, I believe its allowed if theres reasonable force, and a very good reason why (example: if the thief threatens community safety, safety of others, threat to self, etc). So not in the Bar Italia shitkicking terms... but reasonable force and self defense are legally allowed. As long as it's responsible, and just enough force to counter-act the aggressor & render the situation secure & peaceful.

As for Foodfare, most of the staff are Zeid family, or recent immigrants from war-torn Syria & such. When someone just escaped Syria or Afghanistan, just to start work there and get threatened by a junkie with a weapon, that would be enough to set off the employee into panic attacks, if not worse. So looking at the wider situation, plus obvious financial and security concerns, I could see why Foodfare is now arming their employees. Plus don't forget too (i think you told me this one yourself), didn't an employee get shot in the face outside of a Foodfare, for trying to catch a thief? That might destroy my whole argument, but the point is, something like that NEVER disappears... that might be another reason too, why the owner of Foodfare is taking a stand too. Employees should be able to defend themselves, and he should be allowed to make a living, in probably the ONLY grocery offerings within central Winnipeg.

Long story short: lets just see what happens, but it's not like they didn't sit down & deliberate this out. I knew the Zeid's from school - granted I didn't get along with them as a kid, but they DO take serious consideration into what they do, and they don't piss around either. I think they have accurate judgement.

But Winnipeg retail as a whole? This might be an invitation for retailers to start bearing arms. If not arms, then hired "help" with Harleys, security guards en masse, vigilantism, locking doors during all business hours, taking their businesses outside of the Perimeter, discrimination, LA 1992-style riots... if Foodfare brings the Louisville Sluggers to play, and it deters, great! But every single retailer inside the city, getting the war chest? I do agree, thats a serious concern... but it's a concern that could've been avoided, by the three levels of government, WPS and private sector investment. Or in this case - private security, with MUCH higher physical fitness, bravery and a Walker, Texas Ranger mindset. If there's a security guard completely ripped, all black, Doc Martens, armed with bare hands, 100+ IQ and a clipboard for blacklisting, that is a proper deterrent. So imagine a couple dozen of them, goose-stepping around Polo or Outlets, with WPS and off-duty RCMP to back them up.

Give incentives to peace officers to shop at Cadillac Fairview too. Or better yet, Chinook Centre in Calgary has a cop shop. Works wonders. Get CF into talks with WPS, to open a small detachment within the mall. Let said detachment cover all of Polo Park, along with everywhere along St James, Empress, and Portage west, towards Ferry. CF earns WPS rent money. WPS secures the area and oversees private security (aka, no abuses of power, illegal racial bias, or any tomfoolery by Paul Blart or John Wayne). Private security, replacing the off-duty cops, now numbers in the DOZENS, running through Polo Park, shrinking theft losses drastically, and making Polo the most secure mall, in the history of shopping malls.

Problem would be solved, and then some too, especially with WPS being able to respond to Polo and Ellice/Sargent incidents within not even 60 seconds... crime would cease to function. Literally. And if crime does persist, well with tons of private security and WPS on site, resistance is futile.

Plus maybe, just maybe - Pallister can up the security guard standards...? How hard can it be to legislate, that security guards need to be physically fit, willing, and under legal authority to intervene, yet legal consequences if they just twiddle their thumbs and do jackshit during a situation? Because just standing around watching a woman get punched at the LC, is the exact opposite of the term "security". If Manny can't figure it out and hire *actual* security, then maybe the LC should just be abolished and privatized, and the MLCC proceeds can go to stock reimbursement, lawsuits, WCB claims, and AFM initiatives. Food for thought?
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  #9544  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by armorand93 View Post
Or in this case - private security, with MUCH higher physical fitness, bravery and a Walker, Texas Ranger mindset. If there's a security guard completely ripped, all black, Doc Martens, armed with bare hands, 100+ IQ and a clipboard for blacklisting, that is a proper deterrent. So imagine a couple dozen of them, goose-stepping around Polo or Outlets, with WPS and off-duty RCMP to back them up.
On this note, I went to Play it Again Sports on St. Anne's Road recently for a skate sharpening, and they had a security guard in there who looked like the description you just gave. He looked like someone you wouldn't want to mess with. I can only wonder what has happened in there that required a guard like that, but the point is they had one, and he seemed much more capable of intervening than the typical 50-something randos they have standing around at Liquor Marts.

Also, Portage Place, for all its faults, has long had security guards who are capable of taking control when the situation calls for it. If they had the LC guards it would be complete anarchy in there.
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  #9545  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 3:16 PM
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I know someone that works in one of the smaller (square footage) stores at Outlet. I have asked them if theft is a problem in their store and they seem to indicate not really. Considering the fairly wide reports of high theft levels in the mall it seems odd. I think part of it is when they are working though they are fairly quick to approach suspected shoplifters to "offer assistance with their purchase" and otherwise let people know they are being watched closely. The smaller store size likely also helps.
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  #9546  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 4:22 PM
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All I'm saying is when you start having armed guards, right or wrong, prepare for the consequences.

I'm also curious what the stats are regarding "high rate of theft". does that mean there's people in there every hour of the day stealing goods? Or does it mean that they used to have one incident a week, now they're having two? There's no context.
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  #9547  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
I know someone that works in one of the smaller (square footage) stores at Outlet. I have asked them if theft is a problem in their store and they seem to indicate not really. Considering the fairly wide reports of high theft levels in the mall it seems odd. I think part of it is when they are working though they are fairly quick to approach suspected shoplifters to "offer assistance with their purchase" and otherwise let people know they are being watched closely. The smaller store size likely also helps.
Think that has more to do with the fact that the Outlet Mall is in the south half of the city and not the crime infested north!
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  #9548  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 5:15 PM
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it’s cop propaganda that the media is supporting because it’s budget time
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  #9549  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 5:18 PM
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They should hire actual biker/ex-military/ripped security. Problem solved lol.
agreed!
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  #9550  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 12:37 PM
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I read Bentley is closing 88 stores as part of their restructuring. Portage Place store is closing. Any other Winnipeg stores closing?
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  #9551  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 5:18 PM
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I know someone that works in one of the smaller (square footage) stores at Outlet. I have asked them if theft is a problem in their store and they seem to indicate not really. Considering the fairly wide reports of high theft levels in the mall it seems odd. I think part of it is when they are working though they are fairly quick to approach suspected shoplifters to "offer assistance with their purchase" and otherwise let people know they are being watched closely. The smaller store size likely also helps.
By any chance is this one of the smaller local shops? I have a friend that manages a big chain there, I'd say average/medium-size sqft, and said their theft levels are way higher than their Polo Park location.

I do (anecdotally) get the sense that thieves often target the big chains and big names moreso than small local outfits. I doubt it's to protect the little guys, and more because the big brands have more value and cachet on the surface lol.
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  #9552  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 3:46 AM
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in the states they have flashmob robberies, you can find dozens of examples of a large group entering a store and just walking out with armfuls of stolen goods, pretty crazy. Thanks to this insurance rates are going up.

Do they put sensor tags on everything or no?

I saw a store and they had sensor/antitheft devices on everything, like pencil cases, towels, things most places wouldn't put them on.
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  #9553  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 2:06 PM
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the fancy shoe store (can't remember the name, Deadstick maybe?) is getting ready to open on Main street in the Fortune Block.
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  #9554  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 3:15 PM
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the fancy shoe store (can't remember the name, Deadstick maybe?) is getting ready to open on Main street in the Fortune Block.
Livestock ?
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  #9555  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:04 PM
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the fancy shoe store (can't remember the name, Deadstick maybe?) is getting ready to open on Main street in the Fortune Block.
Livestock (Deadstock is their website), and it already opened last Thursday. Beautiful store, big upgrade in location and visibility over the old location. They already do more sales here than one of the Toronto/Vancouver locations, this presence should be an even bigger boost.

Also, VOAK is doing a pop-up in the other empty unit of Fortune for December. Pollard's gave the space to them for free to try and show it off and drum up interest (they have a studio/office on the 3rd floor).

I heard Fusian Experience Dessert Cafe is opening this week (former Grey Owl location), it looks like it's ready to go.

Last edited by buzzg; Dec 16, 2019 at 4:55 PM.
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  #9556  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
the fancy shoe store (can't remember the name, Deadstick maybe?) is getting ready to open on Main street in the Fortune Block.
That's like sneakers and stuff right?

Anyone know where to buy top quality dress shoes? The selection available in department stores is rather underwhelming and its almost impossible to find a good quality leather shoe these days. Anyways, just my rant. I guess that's the disadvantage of living in a town like winnipeg. Hard to find really high quality stuff. I know theres a handful of local places but I've had a hard time finding a store that stocks Allen Edmonds
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  #9557  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:22 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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By any chance is this one of the smaller local shops? I have a friend that manages a big chain there, I'd say average/medium-size sqft, and said their theft levels are way higher than their Polo Park location.
It is actually a chain and the person I know has worked a variety of different locations for the same chain and others. Based on their general stories at different times it seems theft at this store is low. Not sure exactly what it is but they would have access to the info on if it was a concern at their location and it seems to very much not be one.
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  #9558  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:41 PM
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Anyone know where to buy top quality dress shoes? The selection available in department stores is rather underwhelming and its almost impossible to find a good quality leather shoe these days. Anyways, just my rant. I guess that's the disadvantage of living in a town like winnipeg. Hard to find really high quality stuff. I know theres a handful of local places but I've had a hard time finding a store that stocks Allen Edmonds
I haven't been to Polo Park in quite a while but last time I checked, Harry Rosen sold Allen Edmonds. That store is probably your best bet for big name dress shoes.

Hanford Drewitt has some nice looking shoes, although I've never bought from there. Beyond that, I'm not really sure... Saks Off 5th might have some good stuff if you have a conventional (7-12) size. If those options don't work, you may just want to look online.
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  #9559  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 4:57 PM
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That's like sneakers and stuff right?

Anyone know where to buy top quality dress shoes? The selection available in department stores is rather underwhelming and its almost impossible to find a good quality leather shoe these days. Anyways, just my rant. I guess that's the disadvantage of living in a town like winnipeg. Hard to find really high quality stuff. I know theres a handful of local places but I've had a hard time finding a store that stocks Allen Edmonds
Yeah it's sneakers and streetwear.

I used to buy all my dress shoes at Jose and Markham until they closed, they were the best and well-priced. Harry Rosen is really expensive if that's what you're looking for. Other than that I'd look at Browns (Polo) or online.
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  #9560  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 9:30 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions
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