Winnipeg |390 on the river (d Condo) | ~81M | 24F | U/C

[esquire]

Only 11/90 units sold? That is a staggering number, and it leads me to believe that we won't be seeing any more buildings like that going up anytime soon...

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

I'm not surprised they have sold very few condos. When the prices were announced on here awhile ago I commented that it was pretty expensive for the Winnipeg market. Sure, the finish is great so I guess that would justify it somewhat, but for 350,000 people can buy a decent sized home with far greater square footage.

Yeah, and I think he said there were less than 5 units left under $400k. But at this point I think SCU just wants to get it off their hands and will almost take anything haha, hence the discounts.

[alt_center]

Originally Posted by buzzg

My friend went to look at condos here yesterday. Apparently they've only sold 11/90 units.

That is astounding! I am a long time resident of Saskatoon but I used to live in Winnipeg many years ago. To me Saskatoon is like a little Winnipeg.

Here in Saskatoon, Urban Capital's River Landing project has been very successful. Urban Capital is planning a second project and there are a couple other similar projects in the works. As with dcondo, at the Saskatoon condo asking prices I think its easily possible to buy a nice detached house. But I was hoping there is a rising demand for "urban living".

As someone who cares about urban planning/sprawl/densification etc, the dcondo numbers scare me. Why is it not selling? Are there plentiful alternatives in Winnipeg for potential dcondo buyers? Is there something fundamentally wrong with it? Could the Winnipeg market really be different than Saskatoon's?

It makes me wonder if the planned Saskatoon projects are in for a similar fate. Maybe they won't all happen. Perhaps I have been overestimating the demand (e.g., retiring & downsizing boomers) for this type of product on the prairies.

[bomberjet]

dCondo is supposed to be 'luxury' condos. There are other buildings, such as Glasshouse (maybe the only other comparable), which are cheaper and have had better sales.

[esquire]

No question that dCondo aims higher than other projects around town which have been better sellers. Clearly anyone in the market for a dCondo unit can afford a conventional house. But it's still amazing to me that there has been so little uptake, even if they are supposedly luxury units.

Thinking further on this point, some of the condo buildings along Waterfront Drive also offer a luxury product, i.e. getting closer to the size, amenities and prices of nice suburban homes. Those seemed to sell reasonably well. So maybe people are just skittish about dCondo given the problems that have affected the project?

[drew]

I think this has as much to do with the prolonged delays/issues/ownership changes that were fairly well documented through the construction process - as it has do to with any market issues.

I think the sweet spot for condos in Winnipeg would be 50-100k less than what these are listing for, so it's going to take time.

If anything its a cautionary tale for local developers that try to pull off a large scale development like this with limited to no experience in the complexities that come with it.

The scale up from 3 or 4 storey wood framed buildings to a 20+ storey concrete high rise is not linear.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, very true. It probably would have unfolded very differently with an experienced developer at the helm. Good on the original developer for giving it a shot and trying, but this situation does vividly illustrate the risk involved.

[alt_center]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

dCondo is supposed to be 'luxury' condos. There are other buildings, such as Glasshouse (maybe the only other comparable), which are cheaper and have had better sales.

Interesting discussion. Since Glasshouse and River Landing are both by Urban Capital, I get the feeling they are targeting a similar market.

Is there a negative vibe or stigma attached to dCondo?

I've followed the Glasshouse and dCondo threads from the beginning. But this is the first time I've had the nerve to comment on another city's project. For example, I hear a lot about Saskatoon's projects from sources other than skyscraperpage, such as local news, coffee room discussions, people "in the know", etc. It's easy to know which local projects have a positive vibe and which don't. I think that's more difficult to pick up on in a remote city even with all the excellent comments herein (I think that we forum participants tend to have similar biases).

Anyway, I hope dCondo sells well and Winnipeg gets more such developments, because I feel that success in Winnipeg is good for smaller prairie cities like Saskatoon and Regina. Go Jets!

[bomberjet]

Like others mentioned, dCondo underwent ownership change midway through construction. I believe there were some deposits returned to potential buyers, things like that. So yes there is some stigma for those who have been paying attention. I'm sure prospective condo buyers over the last few years have kicked tires but moved on.

And in general, likely the same in Saskatchewan. If you can afford to pay $400k for a residence, you'll probably choose a home with yard and garage, as opposed to a smaller condo. You really have to want to live in a condo, downtown, and pay the price for it.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

dCondo is supposed to be 'luxury' condos. There are other buildings, such as Glasshouse (maybe the only other comparable), which are cheaper and have had better sales.

I think the experience of Glasshouse and D Condo show that it's going to be very tough to sell high-rise condos in Winnipeg for the foreseeable future.

Glasshouse IMO isn't the success some make it out to be. It opened in fall of 2016 and never officially sold out. At any given time, over 10% of the 200 units are up on AirBNB, and several more are being rented out monthly by their individual owners. On top of that, the units that didn't sell are being rented out by Glasshouse as furnished/unfurnished rentals. And this is one of the most affordable condo buildings on the market, not to mention the developer received almost $5 M in grants. After over a year of being completed, the developer was selling units at large discounts, like $10,000 off and up. That's not good for resale, nor is the fact that right now there are about 15 units up for sale in the building...

[EspionNoir]

I think it would be better if D Condo was directly located on one of that empty spot in front of the police station, or near the Exchange. It's current location is not near many amenities and fun places, and without a quick public transport there, owner probably want to walk or drive.

Some potential buyers would be like: "oh look at this beautiful condo highrise! But mmm...the area is a bit boring, and I can't find fun places near it. Well i probably should consider Ashdown Warehouse because that area is awesome!"

[EspionNoir]

I think this is not some "end of the world" situation. In some Canadian cities, developers are sitting on their downtown lux condos with very slow sales. And i believe those condos in Exchange have been very popular, so it's the issue of itself, and not the generalized downtown condo market.

Gotta say Exchange is awesome. Both the people and places are awesome

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by EspionNoir

I think it would be better if D Condo was directly located on one of that empty spot in front of the police station, or near the Exchange. It's current location is not near many amenities and fun places, and without a quick public transport there, owner probably want to walk or drive.

Some potential buyers would be like: "oh look at this beautiful condo highrise! But mmm...the area is a bit boring, and I can't find fun places near it. Well i probably should consider Ashdown Warehouse because that area is awesome!"

2 minute walk to the Forks!

[EspionNoir]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

2 minute walk to the Forks!

I know right, it's actually not far away.

Probably for 100% of the Exchange condos/apartments you can find amenities just by going downstairs. If you live in The Porter House, the Forth Cafe and Mitchell Block are just to your right side, after going downstairs

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by EspionNoir

I know right, it's actually not far away.

Probably for 100% of the Exchange condos/apartments you can find amenities just by going downstairs. If you live in The Porter House, the Forth Cafe and Mitchell Block are just to your right side, after going downstairs

Good point, but it's quite possible that many people would prefer the quieter neighbourhood and riverside location of this one. I would think this is more of a downsizing/retirement sort of place and its competitors would be more in Tuxedo and Wellington Crescent than in the Exchange. Sort of place a well-heeled retiree might consider if they decided to sell their River Heights house and split their time between Winnipeg and Palm Springs, or something like that.

[esquire]

I've spent a lot of time near both and going strictly by location, personally I'd much rather live at dCondo than in Glasshouse.

Based on the number of units for rent or acting as airbnbs, I'd be really curious to know what proportion of Glasshouse buyers are from out of town... I get the impression that some of the suites were purchased by people from Toronto or Vancouver who saw a sales brochure and were seduced by the ability to get a snazzy new condo just off Winnipeg's main drag as an investment property for a relative pittance, only to find that the location is a tough sell.

[eman]

Originally Posted by esquire

I've spent a lot of time near both and going strictly by location, personally I'd much rather live at dCondo than in Glasshouse.

Based on the number of units for rent or acting as airbnbs, I'd be really curious to know what proportion of Glasshouse buyers are from out of town... I get the impression that some of the suites were purchased by people from Toronto or Vancouver who saw a sales brochure and were seduced by the ability to get a snazzy new condo just off Winnipeg's main drag as an investment property for a relative pittance, only to find that the location is a tough sell.

390 on the River now has rentals on the 6 and 7th floors.

https://assiniboineluxurylease.com

Airnbnb is banned from operation in the building which has scared away investors slowing the sales. Live in owners appreciate it. Website says 4 sold in June and 3 more in pending.

The smallest units are 03 and 04 on floors 8 to 17 and they have not sold out, all under 400. The building is only about 20-25% sold. You can look up the floor plans that are still available on the website www.390ontheriver.com

03 and 04 are right around 700sf (2 bedroom),, looks like over 10 still unsold, all under 400.

06 is about 800sf and looks like only one left, so that will probably sell out before the smaller ones.

4 Penthouse units available that are unfinished ready for your custom design.

The unit for the lottery is 1605, which was combined with 1606. https://trihospitaldream.com

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by eman

390 on the River now has rentals on the 6 and 7th floors.

https://assiniboineluxurylease.com

Airnbnb is banned from operation in the building which has scared away investors slowing the sales. Live in owners appreciate it. Website says 4 sold in June and 3 more in pending.

The smallest units are 03 and 04 on floors 8 to 17 and they have not sold out, all under 400. The building is only about 20-25% sold. You can look up the floor plans that are still available on the website www.390ontheriver.com

03 and 04 are right around 700sf (2 bedroom),, looks like over 10 still unsold, all under 400.

06 is about 800sf and looks like only one left, so that will probably sell out before the smaller ones.

4 Penthouse units available that are unfinished ready for your custom design.

The unit for the lottery is 1605, which was combined with 1606. https://trihospitaldream.com

Winnipeg has a saturated condo market and has for some time. It floors me that developers don't do their research. It took me almost a year to sell my condo in Sturgeon Creek and I am now renting a sizeable condo in the Village because my friends couldn't sell it. Every real estate agent I know talks about how sad the condo market is and some even go as far to have conversations with sellers to let them know it may not sell at all or take an extended period of time. The Condo Act didn't help things either even though it was designed to protect the buyer.

It makes absolutely no sense to build a highrise tower and sell condos when you have all these crappy wood frame condos going up all over in the suburbs.

The city really needs to take control over this type of development.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Jammon

The city really needs to take control over this type of development.

In what way do you mean? What do you think the city should do? I don't mean this as a challenging question, but genuinely curious what you think the remedy is, as it seems like something the market will dictate.

When condos started booming here ~10 years ago the apartment vacancy here dropped to near zero as many apartments converted to condos. We've seen a shift to more new apartment builds the last few years as that's what the market is demanding now. Might be tough on condos now but that will eventually balance out as population continues to grow.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by buzzg

In what way do you mean? What do you think the city should do? I don't mean this as a challenging question, but genuinely curious what you think the remedy is, as it seems like something the market will dictate.

When condos started booming here ~10 years ago the apartment vacancy here dropped to near zero as many apartments converted to condos. We've seen a shift to more new apartment builds the last few years as that's what the market is demanding now. Might be tough on condos now but that will eventually balance out as population continues to grow.

I haven't really seen any research that shows that the condo market is in any type of demand right now. During the time you were talking about, there were very few new condo builds. I was approached to sell my condo at that time by numerous real estate agents and I would have sold for approximately 40-50k over the asking price. When I sold last November, I sold for less than the estimated market value. When I discussed this with my real estate agent, he said new builds (especially the wood frame builds in many of the suburban areas) were driving the market down. I have spoken with many people in the housing market that have agreed that the city needs to take a more proactive approach in regulating condo development.

It has been shown that only a certain proportion of the market here are interested in condos. And that segment is not typically immigrant populations, which is the major driving force in our population surge. They typically move here, rent and then look to buy a house rather than a condo. Condos are often seen as an alternative to owning when the housing market is so expensive or so in demand that people look to owning in other ways. Owning a condo for me right now in my current rental location would be almost cost prohibitive- it would be cheaper for me to buy a house.

Condo fees are exceptionally high because of the condo act and the amount required to keep reserve funds. My fees went from $450 to over $600 by the time I sold my condo. This is why the city needs to take a step back and examine the market. I don't believe it will even out as you have said, and right now sellers are taking huge hits if they are even able to sell at all.