Regina's Multi-Purpose facility

[drew]

Originally Posted by Migs

Who said anything about funnelling shows from other facilities? Sheesh this isn't your daddy's Saskatchewan, we are bursting at the seems. Lowest unemployment rate in North America, highest economic growth, etc. Do you have any idea how many tradeshows, conventions, conerts, etc bypass the prairies because of a lack of facilities? I saw the stats a few weeks ago and its astonishing. This isn't about stealing from those that already exist, its about working together and managing a booming economy. As an example, check the article I posted above in regards to Evraz Place.

It's great that the economy is booming right now is Sask. All the power to you.

I guess I just disagree with the "slam dunk" success assumptions everyone seems to have for this facility.

If this gets built strictly with private money, together with civic and provincial funding, I couldn't really care less. Go for it, build this thing.

But if the federal government decides to fund this thing more than a courtesy $10 to 15 million, well then I think you guys will have to get used to other people questioning the logic of this project.

On a personal level, I am completely against heated, indoor venues for outdoor sports, so I wouldn't even support this proposal if it was supposed to go up in Winnipeg.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Bdog

You are helping me prove my point here exactly. This is a football stadium, plain and simple. Does CIS football require a 33,000 seat indoor stadium?

The Vanier Cup does and you can bet your bottom dollar that many more fans would attend Rams/Thunder games if most of them weren't taking place in freezing temperatures. Check the gameday temperatures of all Rams games so far this season.

Nope, they'd be lucky to fill an eighth of those seats, and the season ends far before the first snowfall. Does junior football need a 33,000 seat covered stadium?

If it was there, why wouldn't they use it. You can't cherry pick events and say, well why build it for this. I can play that game too....... Why build a new library if one can easily read books outside?

Nope, the season also ends in mid-october, and doesn't attract even close to that many fans. What kind of conventions do you know of that require stadium style seating arrangements?

Tradeshows and conventions would take place similar to that that occurs in BC Place stadium in Vancouver. Converntions could also take place in new hotels that will be built around the new facility as mentioned several times in the study. Google is a wonderful thing if used properly.

The 2 biggest questions I have about this stadium proposal continually go unanswered:

First, what kind of events need to be held in this grand facility that can't be held elsewhere? (Please, don't tell me that the Regina Thunder or Saskatchewan Huskies need this...)

Grey Cups, stadium concerts, large arena concerts, Roughriders football, Vanier Cups, UFC events (already being negotiated), International amateur sporting events (ie soccer), Large floorspace tradeshows, etc etc etc etc.

Second, if in fact (as you claim) that this will attract new concerts/exhibitions/conventions that currently by-pass Regina due to lack of facilities, Why wouldn't it be more prudent to build 2 facilities (which would still be much cheaper than the multipurpose building proposed now)? Why not build a 33,000 seat outdoor stadium for 150 Million (for the Riders, Rams and Thunder), AND a 15,000 seat arena (for those lady gaga concerts, pyramid scheme conventions and monster jam) for 150 Million? Interestingly enough, those 2 combined would still come in $160 Million cheaper than this proposed multi-use facility (which are currently going out of style in most major cities at the moment)... But then again, how can I expect someone who made a facebook group dedicated to this project to be objective about these questions...

For the love of God I don't know how many times we have to say this, because we don't need a 15,000 seat arena!!!! Do you understand that you are advocating for a facility that we don't need or want?

And if you honestly think you can build a quality outdoor stadium for $150million dollars then I have some ocean front property here in Regina to sell you. I hear they are already cutting back in Winnipeg to try and achieve their pricetag. (ie getting rid of the cover over the stands, using seats from their old stadium, lol)

[Migs]

Originally Posted by drew

It's great that the economy is booming right now is Sask. All the power to you.

I guess I just disagree with the "slam dunk" success assumptions everyone seems to have for this facility.

If this gets built strictly with private money, together with civic and provincial funding, I couldn't really care less. Go for it, build this thing.

But if the federal government decides to fund this thing more than a courtesy $10 to 15 million, well then I think you guys will have to get used to other people questioning the logic of this project.

On a personal level, I am completely against heated, indoor venues for outdoor sports, so I wouldn't even support this proposal if it was supposed to go up in Winnipeg.

With that mindset its no wonder attendance to Bombers games takes a dive once it gets colder.

[khabibulin]

Alot is happening behind the scenes and yes I heard from one of the horses' mouths that our P3 proposal is much farther along than people think, when its all said and done the Conservative MPs are going to be thanked.[/QUOTE]

WOW Migs. 7 posts in a row??? You're not getting defensive are you?

You once asked me to prove one of my staements, and now, I would like to know who is "leaking" all these "secrets" to you. Please back up your statements.

And are you sure it won't be Ralph Goodale the Sasketchewan voters will have to thank, since he is the one pushing for the federal government to provide funding this football stadium?

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by drew

It's great that the economy is booming right now is Sask. All the power to you.

I guess I just disagree with the "slam dunk" success assumptions everyone seems to have for this facility.

If this gets built strictly with private money, together with civic and provincial funding, I couldn't really care less. Go for it, build this thing.

But if the federal government decides to fund this thing more than a courtesy $10 to 15 million, well then I think you guys will have to get used to other people questioning the logic of this project.

On a personal level, I am completely against heated, indoor venues for outdoor sports, so I wouldn't even support this proposal if it was supposed to go up in Winnipeg.

Where was hockey first played? Did they originally back in the 1800s play in indoor arenas? or did the game start out on frozen ponds and ice surfaces outside... hey, if your climate doesn't get cold enough to support such a game, too bad then... Because traditionally, it was played outside, and we should all be traditionalists about everything. It really takes away from the atmosphere going to a covered indoor arena to watch hockey.

Swimming was also for millenia done outside in lakes and other bodies of water. We really shouldn't be building these indoor facilities for swimming. If it's too cold in the winter, it's just too bad... it's a summer sport anyway right?

Lacrosse was also traditionally outdoors... I doubt the natives built complexes for their Lacrosse games... yet it's done in arenas now.

You can apply your argument to numerous sports that started outdoors and have now been shifted indoors for comfort. Why should football be held in different regard than these other sports?

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Migs

If it was there, why wouldn't they use it. You can't cherry pick events and say, well why build it for this. I can play that game too....... Why build a new library if one can easily read books outside?

Grey Cups, stadium concerts, large arena concerts, Roughriders football, Vanier Cups, UFC events (already being negotiated), International amateur sporting events (ie soccer), Large floorspace tradeshows, etc etc etc etc.

For the love of God I don't know how many times we have to say this, because we don't need a 15,000 seat arena!!!! Do you understand that you are advocating for a facility that we don't need or want?

To your first point, I'm not saying that the Rams and Thunder shouldn't play there when (if) it gets built. I'm saying that using those teams as justification for building the new facility is ridiculous. As mentioned before, those teams could be much better served playing at a 5,000 to 7,000 seat grandstand at the U of R (or wherever you want to build that). The heating costs and operating costs alone of the multipurpose stadium on CIS/Junior football gameday would likely cost more than the gate from the 2,000 fans that attend...

For your second point, lets break down the events you mention:
Grey Cups - those will happen once every 8 years or so, max.
Stadium concerts - do you know how many concerts are in stadiums? VERY few. The Stadium concert circuit (as small as it is) is overwhelmingly held in summer months, making the point about needing a retractable roof moot.
Large arena concerts - build a large arena (and outdoor stadium) for less money; that way, at least you'll have great accoustics, and the place won't be half empty (like 1 out of 6 Reginians is going to attend a gaga concert...riggggght).
Vanier Cup - Saskatchewan will hold one once every, what, 20 years? The attendance for Vanier cup has only been over 20,000 ONCE in the last 15 years.
UFC events already being negotiated? Before a stadium is even approved? Hmmm. Another once a year (probably more like once every 3) event that would be better for an arena anyway. Have you ever watched UFC? I don't think I can remember many fights being in stadiums... Most are in arenas, or casinos. Most don't have attendance higher than 15,000....
International amateur sporting events - How do I even begin to explain why this is irrelevant? ("better build a domed 33,000 seat stadium, in case we're ever in the hunt for a little league world series down the road...")
Large floorspace tradeshows: Again, why is necessary to have this in a spectator stadium? Large floorspace is the key here - a convention centre with the floor area of a football field won't do?

[drew]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Where was hockey first played? Did they originally back in the 1800s play in indoor arenas? or did the game start out on frozen ponds and ice surfaces outside... hey, if your climate doesn't get cold enough to support such a game, too bad then... Because traditionally, it was played outside, and we should all be traditionalists about everything. It really takes away from the atmosphere going to a covered indoor arena to watch hockey.

Swimming was also for millenia done outside in lakes and other bodies of water. We really shouldn't be building these indoor facilities for swimming. If it's too cold in the winter, it's just too bad... it's a summer sport anyway right?

Lacrosse was also traditionally outdoors... I doubt the natives built complexes for their Lacrosse games... yet it's done in arenas now.

You can apply your argument to numerous sports that started outdoors and have now been shifted indoors for comfort. Why should football be held in different regard than these other sports?

Wow, I guess my other points were valid, and you decided to jump all over the definition of outdoor sports.

I should have clarified that I don't like indoor heated STADIUMS. We get, what 10 football games a year? Let's play them outdoors.

[Stormer]

some interesting facts about BMO Field from Wikipedia:

Management, ownership and funding
Toronto FC is owned by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE), owners of the National Hockey League's Toronto Maple Leafs and the National Basketball Association's Toronto Raptors. In addition, MLSE contributed towards the cost of the building of the stadium. With the total costs in the realm of $62 million ($72 million including land), contributions came from multiple sources. MLSE contributed $8 million towards the construction of the stadium and $10 million towards securing the naming rights of the stadium, which they later resold to the Bank of Montreal for $27 million over 10 years.[11][12] The Canadian Federal Government contributed $27 million, with Ontario's government adding an additional $8 million. Toronto paid $9.8 million, and has the ownership of the stadium. (All figures are in Canadian dollars.)

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Bdog

To your first point, I'm not saying that the Rams and Thunder shouldn't play there when (if) it gets built. I'm saying that using those teams as justification for building the new facility is ridiculous. As mentioned before, those teams could be much better served playing at a 5,000 to 7,000 seat grandstand at the U of R (or wherever you want to build that). The heating costs and operating costs alone of the multipurpose stadium on CIS/Junior football gameday would likely cost more than the gate from the 2,000 fans that attend...

For your second point, lets break down the events you mention:
Grey Cups - those will happen once every 8 years or so, max.
Stadium concerts - do you know how many concerts are in stadiums? VERY few. The Stadium concert circuit (as small as it is) is overwhelmingly held in summer months, making the point about needing a retractable roof moot.
Large arena concerts - build a large arena (and outdoor stadium) for less money; that way, at least you'll have great accoustics, and the place won't be half empty (like 1 out of 6 Reginians is going to attend a gaga concert...riggggght).
Vanier Cup - Saskatchewan will hold one once every, what, 20 years? The attendance for Vanier cup has only been over 20,000 ONCE in the last 15 years.
UFC events already being negotiated? Before a stadium is even approved? Hmmm. Another once a year (probably more like once every 3) event that would be better for an arena anyway. Have you ever watched UFC? I don't think I can remember many fights being in stadiums... Most are in arenas, or casinos. Most don't have attendance higher than 15,000....
International amateur sporting events - How do I even begin to explain why this is irrelevant? ("better build a domed 33,000 seat stadium, in case we're ever in the hunt for a little league world series down the road...")
Large floorspace tradeshows: Again, why is necessary to have this in a spectator stadium? Large floorspace is the key here - a convention centre with the floor area of a football field won't do?

C'mon, let's face it. You are pissed-off of the prospect that Regina may have a far superior facility than Winnipeg will have. Moreover, Regina would rather keep Mosaic Stadium instead of building ANOTHER outdoor facility. So, what do you think about that?

[DowntownWpg]

Has fiscal conservatism left the mindset of Reginanians... yeah, I know that SSP members do not constitute an accurate sample... but still?! Once the HarperCons turn their back on it, I guess being a spendocrat becomes quite fashionable.

From a city with less than 200K population, it is kind of cute (to wit: acting lofty albeit misguided) reading assumptions of this "multi-purpose" facility based on stadium activity, attendance, and funding in large population centres like Vancouver or the GTA.

Lets face it, this is more about putting Regina 'on the map.' It is about civic ego, and attempting to impress those who do not live in the city. No price is too high from the public purse in this pursuit, 'eh? We've experienced the same thing here in Winnipeg with the CMHR. Supporters rarely, if ever, mention the ideas behind it or the museum's purpose or show concern for the amount of public money pouring into it... but rather, gush about how it will make the skyline look more impressive, make baseless claims that it will see an astronomical amount of visitors, and put Winnipeg 'on the map.' In essence, this "multi-purpose" dream is Regina's CMHR. For Regina's sake, it would be best to drastically scale down the plan, or just do a 'world class' renovation to Mosaic Stadium.

[thefourthtower]

Originally Posted by DowntownWpg

Has fiscal conservatism left the mindset of Reginanians... yeah, I know that SSP members do not constitute an accurate sample... but still?! Once the HarperCons turn their back on it, I guess it becomes quite fashionable.

From a city with less than 200K population, it is kind of cute (to wit: acting lofty albeit misguided) reading assumptions of this "multi-purpose" facility based on stadium activity, attendance, and funding from large population centres like Vancouver or the GTA.

Lets face it, this is more about putting Regina 'on the map.' It is about civic ego, and attempting to impress those who do not live in the city. No price is too high from the public purse in this pursuit, 'eh? We've experienced the same thing here in Winnipeg with the CMHR. Supporters rarely, if ever, mention the ideas behind it or the museum's purpose or show concern for the amount of public money pouring into it... but rather, gush about how it will make the skyline look more impressive, make baseless claims that it will see an astronomical amount of visitors, and put Winnipeg 'on the map.' In essence, this "multi-purpose" dream is Regina's CMHR. For Regina's sake, it would be best to drastically scale down the plan, or just do a 'world class' renovation to Mosaic Stadium.

Why in Gods name are you commenting on the regina page its none of your business , do we go to your city page and raise our hands i think not .

[kap384]

Originally Posted by trueviking

ah yes...the old P3 scam...get your kids to pay for something you want today.

Yep, sure hate P3 'scams's. Take the best of the government and private realms and put them together. On budget, ahead of schedule and accountable (private), and tied to a long term, secure owner (government)

[drew]

Originally Posted by thefourthtower

Why in Gods name are you commenting on the regina page its none of your business , do we go to your city page and raise our hands i think not .

Depending on the amount of federal funding involved, and the fact that federal funding was denied for Winnipeg's bargain basement stadium, yes it is very much our business.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

C'mon, let's face it. You are pissed-off of the prospect that Regina may have a far superior facility than Winnipeg will have. Moreover, Regina would rather keep Mosaic Stadium instead of building ANOTHER outdoor facility. So, what do you think about that?

I never suggested that Mosaic stadium be demolished... However, the fact that you argue it should be kept further puts into question the need for a brand new indoor stadium... As for me having some sort of envy over your "proposed" stadium: First of all, I don't like watching football in domed stadiums (and the fact that only 1 or 2 games a year would be covered makes the extra expense laughable). Secondly, multi-purpose facilities are being torn down everywhere in favour of single use stadiums (in terms of sports - I'm not saying that concerts can't be held in arenas, etc..). Third, I highly doubt that this thing will get built in it's present form ($2,500 per resident? Give me a break!)

[Migs]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

WOW Migs. 7 posts in a row??? You're not getting defensive are you?

Not defensive, just irritated with people from elsewhere talking down about this project and suggesting instead we spend tens of millions on something we don't want or need.

You once asked me to prove one of my staements, and now, I would like to know who is "leaking" all these "secrets" to you. Please back up your statements.

If I revealed my source it would no longer be a secret, kapish? Lets just say that all the Conservative MP's are going to be easily reelected in the next election. My advice, pay 'close' attention to what the province is saying in regards to dealings with the feds.

And are you sure it won't be Ralph Goodale the Sasketchewan voters will have to thank, since he is the one pushing for the federal government to provide funding this football stadium?

Although I am no Liberal supporter, Goodale is a smart man, he knows whats driving the bus in this province. Heck there is basically zero opposition to this facility being built in Saskatchewan, that is why the federal Liberals and the provincial NDP are on board as well.

[thefourthtower]

Originally Posted by drew

Depending on the amount of federal funding involved, and the fact that federal funding was denied for Winnipeg's bargain basement stadium, yes it is very much our business.

A 100 million dollar museum plus 21 million to operate it , Winnipeg has most likely had billions given to it more than regina look at all the federal employes in Winnepeg Regina is the only major city in canda not to recieve a 100 million dollar from the federal govt in canada , it is in very bad taste to trash another citys page.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Bdog

To your first point, I'm not saying that the Rams and Thunder shouldn't play there when (if) it gets built. I'm saying that using those teams as justification for building the new facility is ridiculous.

Who is using it as justification? Someone asked me who would be using this facility and I provided a list. But now that you've brought it up, would it not be a good thing for CIS athletics (ie the Vanier Cup) to be held in an indoor facility when most games in Sk are held in very cold temperatures? With a controlled climate would also bring along many more fans to these games, that is a pretty solid fact.

The heating costs and operating costs alone of the multipurpose stadium on CIS/Junior football gameday would likely cost more than the gate from the 2,000 fans that attend...

Same could be said for various hockey games taking place at the MTS Centre, Saddledome, Rexall PLace, etc or any other venue that hosts events with lower attendances. Is there outrage in Winnipeg when someone other than the Manitoba Moose use the MTS Centre?

For your second point, lets break down the events you mention:
Grey Cups - those will happen once every 8 years or so, max.

You are wrong. Since covered stadiums began being built, more GreyCups were held in cities that have these facilities than any other location. Now lets use the '07 GreyCup in Toronto for an example, that event brought in over $50million dollars of economic activity to that area. Now lets predict that over a 60-70 year lifetime of the new facility, we host 10-12 GreyCups. Do the math just for this type of event.

Stadium concerts - do you know how many concerts are in stadiums? VERY few. The Stadium concert circuit (as small as it is) is overwhelmingly held in summer months, making the point about needing a retractable roof moot.

Weird I remember freezing my ass off at a Rollings Stones concert in October a couple years ago. Its true there aren't as many stadium tours, but there are already some that have avoided this area because of lack of facilities (ie Jayz/Eminen, U2, Paul Mccartney, Springsteen, etc)

Large arena concerts - build a large arena (and outdoor stadium) for less money; that way, at least you'll have great accoustics, and the place won't be half empty (like 1 out of 6 Reginians is going to attend a gaga concert...riggggght).

Once again, we do not need a large arena, why do you continue to advocate us spending over a hundred million dollars for an arena that won't be used for hockey? Skydome in Toronto was used several times for arena concerts before the ACC was built, what makes you think that can't happen here?

Vanier Cup - Saskatchewan will hold one once every, what, 20 years? The attendance for Vanier cup has only been over 20,000 ONCE in the last 15 years.

With the new facility the Vanier Cup would be held in Regina alot more often than that, case in point the amount of times its been held in the 'covered' Skydome. And its too bad that you aren't more positive in thinking in that a new climate controlled facility in the heartland of football won't draw more than 20K people. Think positive my friend, all this negativity is gutwrenching.

UFC events already being negotiated? Before a stadium is even approved? Hmmm. Another once a year (probably more like once every 3) event that would be better for an arena anyway. Have you ever watched UFC? I don't think I can remember many fights being in stadiums...Most are in arenas, or casinos. Most don't have attendance higher than 15,000....

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2010/05/20/ufc_canada/

International amateur sporting events - How do I even begin to explain why this is irrelevant? ("better build a domed 33,000 seat stadium, in case we're ever in the hunt for a little league world series down the road...")

With a covered facility Regina could play host to many international events, like international soccer, track and field events, etc. Once again, these are only events that can take place in the facility once it is built.

Large floorspace tradeshows: Again, why is necessary to have this in a spectator stadium? Large floorspace is the key here - a convention centre with the floor area of a football field won't do?

Dunno, why do covered stadiums (ie BC PLace, Skydome, UofArizona, Fargodome, etc) all over the world hold tradeshows?

[Migs]

Originally Posted by drew

Depending on the amount of federal funding involved, and the fact that federal funding was denied for Winnipeg's bargain basement stadium, yes it is very much our business.

The only people you have to blame are those who provided the Winnipeg proposal to the feds.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Stormer

some interesting facts about BMO Field from Wikipedia:

Management, ownership and funding
Toronto FC is owned by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE), owners of the National Hockey League's Toronto Maple Leafs and the National Basketball Association's Toronto Raptors. In addition, MLSE contributed towards the cost of the building of the stadium. With the total costs in the realm of $62 million ($72 million including land), contributions came from multiple sources. MLSE contributed $8 million towards the construction of the stadium and $10 million towards securing the naming rights of the stadium, which they later resold to the Bank of Montreal for $27 million over 10 years.[11][12] The Canadian Federal Government contributed $27 million, with Ontario's government adding an additional $8 million. Toronto paid $9.8 million, and has the ownership of the stadium. (All figures are in Canadian dollars.)

Barely a whisper hey Stormer?

[Migs]

Originally Posted by drew

I should have clarified that I don't like indoor heated STADIUMS. We get, what 10 football games a year? Let's play them outdoors.

That is your opinion, good thing Winnipeg is building an outdoor stadium