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  #2201  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2008, 7:01 PM
Dalton Dalton is offline
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Originally Posted by surfchicago View Post
Any idea what they were doing there?
1) Examining the feasibility of controlled explosive demolition.

2) Looking into the possibility that the structure be opened cheaply as a dedicated parking garage to recoup some of the investment.

3) Studying whether or not the hotel portion of the building can be completed and occupied, leaving the condo tower to be completed at a later date (or left off entirely). Obviously the barrier to financing must be the glut of condos in the area. Teng must be frantically trying to repurpose the structure, with minimal alteration to the existing work, to make it attractive to finance.

My guess is we'll eventually see option 3. Yes, that will leave far too much parking space, but with Chicago losing parking lots near the river left and right the extra parking might be able to pay its way.
     
     
  #2202  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2008, 7:50 PM
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^ But Waterview has close to 60% of its condos under contract. In what way is that a barrier to financing?
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  #2203  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2008, 7:56 PM
chi-arch chi-arch is offline
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^Yeah, let's pray he's not an young economist
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  #2204  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2008, 9:24 PM
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....did the Beijing financing die ? ...I thought it was on hold until after the Olympics ? ...if it does die, then the "stump" will have to wait out this r/e glut and get completed (in some fashion) in a few years.....
     
     
  #2205  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2008, 9:52 PM
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Come on people. This structure already has invested the sunk costs of a foundation, utilities rework, and zoning issues required for a 90 story building. Not to mention the parking and underlying hotel structure are completed, all on a prime lot.
Anything less then the original plan (The intensive design work already done is more sunk costs), which is superb, and 2/3rd sold. The facade materials are already partially produced and waiting in storage, up to the ~30th floor, so further value engineering is not likely - changes now would really screw up the appearance. Also the previously units sold were promised a certain specification of quality that must now be delivered.
I dont see how this tower could be anything less than the announced plan? Delays are understandable, but the end product should be as promised.
     
     
  #2206  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2008, 10:19 PM
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..if this project dies permanently .....do the security deposits get returned or are they lost ?
     
     
  #2207  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2008, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest View Post
Come on people. This structure already has invested the sunk costs of a foundation, utilities rework, and zoning issues required for a 90 story building. Not to mention the parking and underlying hotel structure are completed, all on a prime lot.
Anything less then the original plan (The intensive design work already done is more sunk costs), which is superb, and 2/3rd sold. The facade materials are already partially produced and waiting in storage, up to the ~30th floor, so further value engineering is not likely - changes now would really screw up the appearance. Also the previously units sold were promised a certain specification of quality that must now be delivered.
I dont see how this tower could be anything less than the announced plan? Delays are understandable, but the end product should be as promised.
Thank you


..if this project dies permanently .....do the security deposits get returned or are they lost ?

Deposits are being held in interest bearing escrow accounts and belong to the purchasers. They will be returned.
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  #2208  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 1:41 AM
Dalton Dalton is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ But Waterview has close to 60% of its condos under contract. In what way is that a barrier to financing?
They were at 60% before the foundation went in. Obviously they are stuck there, much as Trump is having trouble selling out the final 20% (the profit) on his building.

Plus, 60% under contract does not necessarily mean 60% would close. I'd wager a large proportion of those holding sales contracts have their fingers crossed that the project will fail and they will get their deposits back. If you sign a contract for $500,000 and the market says the unit is now worth $400,000 would you close? Or would you write off the deposit and get out of the deal?

I still say the best way to complete the project would be in stages. Finish the hotel section now and wait a few years for the condo market to improve.
     
     
  #2209  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 4:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Norsider View Post
It'd definitely be a disappointing result. But "one of the most spectacular lots in the city"? Dude, relax.
You don't think a riverfront lot right in the heart of downtown is spectacular? I think you should get energized.
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  #2210  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest View Post
Come on people. This structure already has invested the sunk costs of a foundation, utilities rework, and zoning issues required for a 90 story building. Not to mention the parking and underlying hotel structure are completed, all on a prime lot.
Anything less then the original plan (The intensive design work already done is more sunk costs), which is superb, and 2/3rd sold. The facade materials are already partially produced and waiting in storage, up to the ~30th floor, so further value engineering is not likely - changes now would really screw up the appearance. Also the previously units sold were promised a certain specification of quality that must now be delivered.
I dont see how this tower could be anything less than the announced plan? Delays are understandable, but the end product should be as promised.
Many of the "sunk costs" have yet to be paid. A lot of players are owed a lot of money.
     
     
  #2211  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
They were at 60% before the foundation went in. Obviously they are stuck there, much as Trump is having trouble selling out the final 20% (the profit) on his building.

Plus, 60% under contract does not necessarily mean 60% would close. I'd wager a large proportion of those holding sales contracts have their fingers crossed that the project will fail and they will get their deposits back. If you sign a contract for $500,000 and the market says the unit is now worth $400,000 would you close? Or would you write off the deposit and get out of the deal?

I still say the best way to complete the project would be in stages. Finish the hotel section now and wait a few years for the condo market to improve.
Where do you come up with this stuff? A 3-4 year old sales contract on a $500,000 unit in Waterview is now probably in the $750,000 range and it would be in the purchasers best interest to close rather than settle for 3-4 years of 2% APR on their escrow. Stop spewing nonsense.
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  #2212  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 3:38 PM
ChicagoChicago ChicagoChicago is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi-arch View Post
Where do you come up with this stuff? A 3-4 year old sales contract on a $500,000 unit in Waterview is now probably in the $750,000 range and it would be in the purchasers best interest to close rather than settle for 3-4 years of 2% APR on their escrow. Stop spewing nonsense.
Not to mention the Chicago condo market is not experiencing the turmoil seen in other parts of the US. It certainly has slowed, but that is largely due to financing and bank underwriting pressures.

You won't see any more people putting contracts on Waterview until a deal is made, either.
     
     
  #2213  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 9:23 PM
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Yes, they hover in the upper 60% sold range, but units are still being sold. Being under contract means the buyer is legally obliged to close
     
     
  #2214  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 10:53 PM
TowerGuy37 TowerGuy37 is offline
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????

Of course Teng doesn't want to say too much I'm sure, but it would be so nice if they just updated the status just to keep everyone from speculating too much. I don't think its very good for any party thats involved whether it be developer, hotel operator , buyer or even seller when everyone is speculating on what "might/ will/ probably" happen! We are all ready for some more action at the site anytime!
     
     
  #2215  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 7:40 AM
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Chicago's market certainly isn't imploding like southern California or Florida, but the market value of those contracts has probably taken an enormous hit from the combination of the downturn in housing prices around the country (including Chicago and its burbs), coupled with the uncertainty of the project and the subsequent inherent risk. Regardless, I would think most savvy investors would want to sit back on committing to a relatively expensive housing purchase, considering the prices are going only going to continue to bottom out for another few months at the very least. No one wants to catch the proverbial falling dagger. Not saying it won't get finished, just saying it might take some time.
     
     
  #2216  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 2:26 PM
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Besides, it's mostly us insiders/those who care are the ones who know the building is on hold. The general public, I assume, sees a concrete frame topped with a crane and assumes it's still u/c, without noticing the "details" like the absense of formwork, etc. This factor should be less of a psychological turnoff for potential buyers/the public at large.
     
     
  #2217  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 3:40 PM
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maybe, but I'd have to imagine that if I were going to be plunking down a deposit for a $500k condo, I'd be paying attention to the activity level, even if I weren't a development nerd.
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  #2218  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 5:05 PM
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^ Yup - due diligence.
     
     
  #2219  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murdoc9 View Post
maybe, but I'd have to imagine that if I were going to be plunking down a deposit for a $500k condo, I'd be paying attention to the activity level, even if I weren't a development nerd.
Well, they'd sure inquire into some details like its general status, but changes are they still won't go into thorough investigations and would be more likely to buy into developer smooth talk if it generally looks legit. I can so hear a standard conversation:

Investor calling inot the sales office: Hi, I'm looking to buy a condo in your building but I've read reports that the project is temporarily suspended, though I recall seeing the actual building under construction. Could you please elaborate on the situation?
Sales rep: There is no need to worry, sir. The management is simply working out some minor specifics concerning financing. However, it is not a major delay, just some technicalities that may set the project back by a few weeks at most, and both parties remain fully committed to bringing this top-tier development to Chicago luxury condominium market.
     
     
  #2220  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:00 AM
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I'm not an investor, but if snowflakes start hitting this thing in its current state, then I am going to write it off mentally as a skyscraper nerd and just concentrate on the spire
     
     
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