N3 Condo (Zero Parking Condo in East Village)

[lorenavedon]

Originally Posted by MasterG

You aren't buying nuts at Costco by the kilogram. The limiting factor to affordability is not how good or bad deal it is by square-foot, but overall cost. This is one of the only new-built buildings anywhere in the inner city (or large swaths of the greater city for that matter) that you can get a place - albeit small ones - for 200K-350K. Period.

Is it a good deal? Completely subjective. It depends how much you like nuts I guess.

agreed. I'm assuming everyone in this thread is going to be loading up on these units right?

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by lorenavedon

agreed. I'm assuming everyone in this thread is going to be loading up on these units right?

Only need about ~160 of them to take the plunge and you have a successful project on your hands.

If I was looking to purchase now, I would strongly consider this project. It fits my lifestyle and - even more importantly - I can afford it. Can't say the same about Park Point or many of other projects out there currently, as great as they all may be.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by MasterG

This is one of the only new-built buildings anywhere in the inner city (or large swaths of the greater city for that matter) that you can get a place - albeit small ones - for 200K-350K. Period.

Or the Verve, where you can get a unit larger then any at N3, a 620 sqf 1 bedroom unit WITH 1 underground parking stall for $353,873 asking price on MLS right now?

You can buy 1 bedroom 527 sqf units in the heart of Eau Claire right now in the low 300's and they come WITH underground parking.

There is a unit built in 2009 right in the East Village that is 592sqf that comes WITH underground parking and it is currently asking $294,900.

551 sqf 1 bedroom with underground parking in the East Village for $325,000.

That pricing for a unit that small "without" parking is ridiculous and anyone who pays that much for them is going to take it in the shorts when it comes time to sell and all of the neighboring units for sale in other buildings in the area are all selling WITH parking, and are often selling for the same, or even lower amounts of money.

There is no $70,000 off of a 575 sqf unit at $350k, that IS the price of the comparable units in the area that INCLUDE parking. So this developer decided to save the money on building a parking structure, and wants to then charge prices comparable to units in the area that include parking...

That largest 575 sqf unit needed to be ~$280k for this whole development to make sense at all, and at the end of the day any investor that knows the value of that which they buy will be paying way less for these units when the developer hit panic mode because they cannot move any of the units because all their fanboys on SSP did not come in and buy them all like they thought would happen.

Even the marketing for the project made out that they would be undercutting the current market due to the cost savings of not building a parking structure, but then they come out with prices in the "parking included" range for the area. If they cannot make the economics work with prices way less then that after saving all of that money not building parking then this development should get turfed because it is going to be a loser for everyone invested in it, the developer and the buyers both.

Maybe the parking was not quite as expensive to build as first thought. You still have to build a substructure for the building and the mechanical and maintenance areas for the building even if you skip building a parking structure, that parking structure normally has a lot of that substructure mechanical and piping built through the parking area so that cost of the parking structure is actually making the installation of all that stuff easier and cheaper than building a "no parking" building is able to manage.

If those are the numbers they expect to charge/need to make this thing is already a failure.

[Surrealplaces]

The price per sq foot isn't cheap, but in the end it's still about the total price to own your living space in a place right beside downtown. Some people aren't as concerned about the amount of space as much as location. I haven't looked into the prices for N3...are they on their website? My understanding was that there were some units starting at 199K, which would definitely be cheaper than anything on the market...regardless of the size.

Originally Posted by lorenavedon

has anyone looked into the price? 575 largest unit. 350k max price = $608/sqft

SIX HUNDRED for a place without parking. Even at the top floor, Nope.

Originally Posted by lorenavedon

location doesn't mean infinite pricing. If I can get into Vogue, Verve, Park Point, Smith, Mark on 10th, Kensington, Lido etc for the same price they have just as good of a location. Everything has a limit. Justifying insane prices with "location" only goes so far. Oh, and all those places come with parking.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by Tropics

Even the marketing for the project made out that they would be undercutting the current market due to the cost savings of not building a parking structure, but then they come out with prices in the "parking included" range for the area. If they cannot make the economics work with prices way less then that after saving all of that money not building parking then this development should get turfed because it is going to be a loser for everyone invested in it, the developer and the buyers both.

Totally fine with all you are saying. What I am not fine is artificially raising the cost of developing by having a mandatory parking minimum. If the economics of this project don't fly and the units don't sell, that's the developer's issue, not the city's. In the meantime you can get 100 units in the low-200Ks in one of the most central and popular areas of the city that helps immensely with affordability using a market-based solution rather than increasing costs arbitrarily because of an outdated and too rigidly applied parking policy.

If the developer, investors and residents all want to make a go of it, they should certainly be allowed to. That's the issue at stake here because currently they are not allowed to. All I hear from the anti-urbanists out there is that the city shouldn't allow this because it will never sell and people are stupid for buying them because there is no world without a car and even the idea of allowing this is akin to blasphemy.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by MasterG

In the meantime you can get 100 units in the low-200Ks in one of the most central and popular areas of the city that helps immensely with affordability using a market-based solution rather than increasing costs arbitrarily because of an outdated and too rigidly applied parking policy.

You can already buy a small new unit without parking in the low 200's in East Village.

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...rtyId=15308714

Lets see how long it lasts.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Tropics

You can already buy a small new unit without parking in the low 200's in East Village.

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...rtyId=15308714

Lets see how long it lasts.

I don't think it will last that long, even in a down cycle market. How many units like this are there in the Verve?

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by Tropics

You can already buy a small new unit without parking in the low 200's in East Village.

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...rtyId=15308714

Lets see how long it lasts.

Wait, so your argument that N3 is doomed to be a flop is that other developers have independently decided to build suites at similar size and price point? Is this the new "nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" argument?

[Spring2008]

That does seem high. I would have thought this place would be in the high 400's, low 500's psf without parking and all. $600 psf gets you a place in pretty much any new inner-city luxury condo including parking.

Originally Posted by lorenavedon

has anyone looked into the price? 575 largest unit. 350k max price = $608/sqft

SIX HUNDRED for a place without parking. Even at the top floor, Nope.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Wait, so your argument that N3 is doomed to be a flop is that other developers have independently decided to build suites at similar size and price point? Is this the new "nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" argument?

Wow, that is a weird red herring you just threw out there...

No, I made no argument at all in that post you quoted. The person I was responding to who was not you said that they would like to buy a unit like that without parking in the low 200's and was happy that N3 was going to make such units available. I simply made him aware that units exactly like that are already available and selling.

I think low 200's studios in that area will likely sell well. I think a $350k 575 sqf 1 bedroom in that area is idiotic because buildings like the Verve are already offering similar 1 bedrooms at that price range WITH parking. So if N3 is actually trying to offer people a 575 sqf 1 bedroom unit with a reduced price due to no parking then it better actually be a lot cheaper then the similar unit in the Verve that actually "has" a parking stall.

If you are going to sell units like this without that $50,000 parking stall then the price of that unit better actually be $50,000 less then the similar units that actually have the parking stall, or else the developer is simply trying to rip people off.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Tropics

If you are going to sell units like this without that $50,000 parking stall then the price of that unit better actually be $50,000 less then the similar units that actually have the parking stall, or else the developer is simply trying to rip people off.

Agreed. I haven't actually looked at the pricing of N3, only their ad which stated some units started at 199K. You're exactly right, the units should be at least 50K cheaper than a comparable unit in another building with parking.

[lorenavedon]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Agreed. I haven't actually looked at the pricing of N3, only their ad which stated some units started at 199K. You're exactly right, the units should be at least 50K cheaper than a comparable unit in another building with parking.

the 199k pricing is always the doorbuster where they will sell 1 unit for that price just for the publicity and everything else will be way more. Every development does that.

[red_179]

The more expensive units definitely don't have a great value proposition compared to other units in the market with parking. Hopefully, for the project, most of the pricing is in the $200,000 - $300,000 range.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by lorenavedon

the 199k pricing is always the doorbuster where they will sell 1 unit for that price just for the publicity and everything else will be way more. Every development does that.

I would imagine that most people who buy condos shop around so they should know in the end if they are getting the deal they wanted.

I haven't seen any of the pricing for any units, but Drake had pricing around that range when they first launched, and had more than one unit at that price. If I recall they had about two dozen units.

[atlas_inc]

Originally Posted by lorenavedon

the 199k pricing is always the doorbuster where they will sell 1 unit for that price just for the publicity and everything else will be way more. Every development does that.

University City (by the same Developer of N3 Condo) advertised 85 units under $199,900 when the project first came out. Maybe a similar number of units might happen here?

[atlas_inc]

The project is looking for support by April 30th for when they go to council in May. I think we would all like to see how far this project can go. Click the link to show your support.

http://us8.campaign-archive1.com/?u=...a&e=c984784639

or just email: cityclerk@calgary.ca with the Subject Line: LOC2014-0078

[flipstah]

I guess you can establish your own ecosystem within East Village and you really wouldn't need a car.

Especially if you work in downtown, you can really stay within the boundaries but being fully dependent on C-Train and fighting for car2go will be a big change.

I live in downtown but I love my car haha.

[MalcolmTucker]

When I was living in Edmonton without a car I think the longest I went without leaving a 10 block radius was about a month.

[Surrealplaces]

Nice to see Council approve this.

[atlas_inc]

Looks like they're giving away $4,000 worth of gift cards to Bow Cycle on their homepage. www.n3condo.ca Really pushing the bike lifestyle!