Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Indeed. Riverside South screwed is again. They should have terminated at the airport and used that money to twin Trillium. But hey, because they were promised LRT when their McMansions were stakes in the ground extensions took priority over frequency.

Big agree about double tracking vs extensions but I disagree about the airport. If we're deciding where to put our scarce transit dollars, the thousands of daily commuters from RS and Findlay Creek trump the hundreds of infrequent airport-bound commuters.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

You asked why. Well the streetcars were abandoned because they kept getting caught in traffic and there were lots of car crashes to name a couple of reasons of not making that same mistake again.

Anyway I took line 1 to get to work and its now much easier since i wont be getting caught in traffic anymore.

As for your comment about why should they extend line 2 to gatineau the answer is easy, the are lots of transit users from Barrhaven and Kanata that work at place de portage hence the routes of 61,63, 66 and 75 going to gatineau. So any extension into Gatineau is about serving Ottawa residents not Gatineau residents that you would falsly claim it is.

Just remember I was writing that comment from Toronto after using Toronto streetcars for 4 straight days in mixed traffic very successfully. Ottawa's surface route would have been in much better exclusive lanes.

Also, the original comment was to extend the Trillium Line via the Rapibus corridor. This would not serve Ottawa riders going to the government complexes in downtown Hull.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

You keep on pressing for a door to door ride. Maybe only a few people will go to from South Ottawa to Gatineau but an extension to Gatineau provides routes to Gatineau for everyone else in the city even if you don't want to take it. You seem to think that you should be able to go wherever you want with no transfers, no matter how seamless and frequent the transfers are. The reality is that some day Ottawa will have a network and not every line will or needs to go to the downtown core in spite of what you might think.

A transfer at Bayview will pull passengers off the Confederation line in both directions to access Gatineau and make space available for other users to board at Bayview to travel in either direction. Contrary to your opinion I do not think that Bayview will be overwhelmed with passengers if the Trillium line is extended to Gatineau. The benefits far outweigh the downsides.

I have never said that. Thanks for misrepresenting me.

Bayview will not be a problem until we start funneling all Rapibus passengers through that station. The original comment was suggesting to do exactly that. Of course, that will not be happening because Ottawa-Gatineau has no will to operate any sort of effective interprovincial transit system and will not be extending the Trillium Line across the river.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Big agree about double tracking vs extensions but I disagree about the airport. If we're deciding where to put our scarce transit dollars, the thousands of daily commuters from RS and Findlay Creek trump the hundreds of infrequent airport-bound commuters.

Thumbs up on serving our taxpayers over infrequent visitors as a more important priority.

[mykl]

Had my first commute today. I start work at 10am so I miss the rush. Things were smooth, but I realized Blair station is a bit of a letdown compared to the rest of the system.

Blair is the least intuitive station, and has the worst wayfinding. I went to the wrong spot twice. I was assuming that you could still go down the stairs and then across the bus area, and up a couple steps on the other side near the Gloucester Centre. But you HAVE TO climb all the way up just to come all the way back down. And the only staircase is at the very end of the platform which is different from the rest of the stations. The station either needed some escalators, or to allow the old way of crossing the road, or more of a rebuild to reduce unnecessary time waste for anyone trying to get to the Gloucester Centre.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I rode the train 3 days in a row. I love the stations and the trains, love em to death. But it doesn't really matter how nice the train is if when people get off it, they're forced to shove their way through throngs of people and squeeze themselves onto a packed 95 or 61. And this is what we will all face. How are we supposed to grow ridership after spending $2 billion only to fire 100s of bus drivers???

Although I understand the ongoing bus reliability issue downtown, we also have to remember that not all riders are going to switch to rail until October 6th. That has to be a concern if bus capacity problems already exist at the key transfer stations. OC Transpo better be ready to address this.

The biggest change in Ottawa transit history is going to present challenges that can never be fully anticipated.

[lrt's friend]

urbantoronto provided a link to many users complaining about a sewage odour problem at Parliament station. True or not?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1173707480456671235

[jchilds72]

I noticed it on Sunday heading west and found it lingered on the train until around Rideau Station. Coming east I noticed a very, very faint smell during my stopover at Rideau, but didn't really notice it when I hit Parliament westbound.

It was mentioned on the local 6pm CTV news today and the smell was compared to the Paris Metro.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Big agree about double tracking vs extensions but I disagree about the airport. If we're deciding where to put our scarce transit dollars, the thousands of daily commuters from RS and Findlay Creek trump the hundreds of infrequent airport-bound commuters.

Airports are important points to connect to a network. They build support among people who don't regularly commute and unlike the other commuters who mostly will switch from the bus to train they will be switching from taxis or even cars going both directions (someone coming to pick them up).

All that said this plan is so bad it will not entice anyone to take the train. I live very near a station so probably would do the transfer thing when I have carry on but previously I took the bus which was one seat and only a few minutes further from my house. Most even downtown residents probably won't do it to say nothing of anyone who has to transfer again to a bus at Hurdman or Tunney's.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

100%.

David Jeanes sounds very pompous in that article.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the Confederation Line is great. A rail tunnel under downtown was needed.

But the intervention of his “Friends” is a big part of why LRT only opened in Ottawa this weekend instead of 10 years ago.

It was shortsighted to throw away what was planned and waste $100M.

It isn't like the Confederation Line was phase 2 of the Charelli plan (as I recall, the TMP called for an East-West surface streetcar using suburban arterial streets - in line with what was trendy at the time) and the dominant view at city hall was that the Albert/Slater nightmare (made even worse by the addition of streetcars) was a viable long-term solution.

I guess it was possible that after the Charelli line was built, city bureaucrats and politicians would have realized what a white elephant/cluster**** it was, made a 180 degree turn and proposed something like the confederation line (although that isn't how politicians or bureaucrats usually act in the face of a monumental screw up), but getting public support (as well as cash from other governments) at that point would have been difficult.

I think in most realistic scenarios the Charelli plan had to die so the Confederation Line could live.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Just remember I was writing that comment from Toronto after using Toronto streetcars for 4 straight days in mixed traffic very successfully. Ottawa's surface route would have been in much better exclusive lanes.

Also, the original comment was to extend the Trillium Line via the Rapibus corridor. This would not serve Ottawa riders going to the government complexes in downtown Hull.

You misrepresented the 2013 TMP that will eventually be updated. It showed line 2 being extended only to Tache which meant Ottawa riders would have to transfer like they would have to if the worked in downtown Ottawa. What you choose to ignore and STO saw and published is that Bayview would not be a place that Gatineau residents would transfer at since most if not all work downtown. There is no way you know more than the transit planners at STO and i have seen it for myself where almost all Gatineau riders during rush hour. Extending line 2 across the river will not be a problem.

Just get over the fact that the Chiarelli plan needed to die because there is no way Ottawa can build other than a fully grade-separated light metro sytem in this city, Ottawa's past and current history has already proven that.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Big agree about double tracking vs extensions but I disagree about the airport. If we're deciding where to put our scarce transit dollars, the thousands of daily commuters from RS and Findlay Creek trump the hundreds of infrequent airport-bound commuters.

In an ideal world? Sure.

But in the real world, you gotta choose. Every km of track beyond South Keys is a km of track they could have doubled up on Trillium, north of South Keys.

I don't think South Keys-Airport needs to be twinned per se. But I wish the service was designed as interline from Bayview, as opposed to a shuttle from South Keys. And I'd be willing to toss the Riverside South folks under the proverbial bus for it. Because that would mean better frequency for everyone north of South Keys.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have never said that. Thanks for misrepresenting me.

He accurately represents how you come off with your constant noise about how the old plan was perfect because it brought the Trillium Line downtown. You keep saying Bayview is going to turn out like Yonge & Bloor because Trillium Line users have to transfer. Etc. Sounds a lot like you think any plan without one-seat rides from South Keys to the foot of Parliament Hill is flawed.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Bayview will not be a problem until we start funneling all Rapibus passengers through that station. The original comment was suggesting to do exactly that. Of course, that will not be happening because Ottawa-Gatineau has no will to operate any sort of effective interprovincial transit system and will not be extending the Trillium Line across the river.

In a world where the only connection from Gatineau was across the PoW this might be true. But nobody proposed that. Ending the Rapibus there would not even most Gatineau residents transferring there, if their other LRT lines were up and headed to downtown via Alexandria or Portage. It would also mean that a regional Trillium Line could not be an 8-12 minute line. Since it would have to clear Bayview, higher frequencies would be needed.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Just remember I was writing that comment from Toronto after using Toronto streetcars for 4 straight days in mixed traffic very successfully. Ottawa's surface route would have been in much better exclusive lanes.

The St. Clair streetcar is exactly like what was proposed on the old plan. Ask Torontonians if it's a good idea to replace the subway with more streetcars like that. Ride that streetcar yourself and then come argue honestly that it's a good replacement for a subway through the core.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Also, the original comment was to extend the Trillium Line via the Rapibus corridor. This would not serve Ottawa riders going to the government complexes in downtown Hull.

Not every public servant who lives in Ottawa and works in Gatineau, works in Hull. I don't get why everyone acts like every Ottawa to Gatineau commuter is heading to Hull. Not remotely close to true.

And a Trillium or Rapibus connection across PoW does not negate other bus connections to Hull from Ottawa's downtown. It's simply another transfer point and route.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Just get over the fact that the Chiarelli plan needed to die because there is no way Ottawa can build other than a fully grade-separated light metro sytem in this city, Ottawa's past and current history has already proven that.

His contention is that Ottawa would have eventually built a downtown tunnel in parallel to the surface streetcar routes. If you think that's a good idea and "eventually" is a good timeline then it's easy to see why the old plan was appealing.

I don't buy that politicians would happily pay for a tunnel in parallel with an existing rail corridor. And I think we would have ended up with massive bus and tram congestion in the core within two decades at best. The Confederation Line plan will probably serve Ottawa until most of us here are 6 feet under.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

His contention is that Ottawa would have eventually built a downtown tunnel in parallel to the surface streetcar routes. If you think that's a good idea and "eventually" is a good timeline then it's easy to see why the old plan was appealing.

I don't buy that politicians would happily pay for a tunnel in parallel with an existing rail corridor. And I think we would have ended up with massive bus and tram congestion in the core within two decades at best. The Confederation Line plan will probably serve Ottawa until most of us here are 6 feet under.

That's my thought as well. We all know money doesn't grow on trees.

[Corvulpes]

The issue Monday evening was a brake faults, they need to be reset in the LRV in which they've occurred. In this case it was the rear LRV.

The CCTV system on board doesn't always work so the guys on the platform are there to advise the driver the doors are clear and it's safe to depart. Depending on the situation they use whistles, hand signals, and remote controlled lights.

[Truenorth00]

I gotta say. Looking at my commute this far, I think they've underestimated demand. It's getting busy. And they haven't even completed the bus transition. We gonna end up with crush loads on the 6th?

I think they need to boost frequencies at peak ASAP to add capacity.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I gotta say. Looking at my commute this far, I think they've underestimated demand. It's getting busy. And they haven't even completed the bus transition. We gonna end up with crush loads on the 6th?

I think they need to boost frequencies at peak ASAP to add capacity.

Are you talking about the trains or the buses?

I haven't heard anything about the trains being crush-loaded yet (other than in the 5-10 minutes following the 8 minute delay).

Most of the crowding at this point seems to be at the bus platforms at Tunney's (and to a lesser extent Blair).

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't think South Keys-Airport needs to be twinned per se. But I wish the service was designed as interline from Bayview, as opposed to a shuttle from South Keys. And I'd be willing to toss the Riverside South folks under the proverbial bus for it. Because that would mean better frequency for everyone north of South Keys.

This makes no sense. The ridership from RSS will be an order of magnitude higher than ridership to/from the airport. We should be designing our transit system for ridership, not as a vanity project.

The only reason we're having this discussion is because we decided in 2006 not to double track the Trillium line. A lot of people on this board seem to think this was a great idea, but the inadequate frequency and inability to interline is a direct result of this.