Western Expresso

[esquire]

You do see an awful lot of cars out there with AWD relative to the number of cars with winter tires. Perhaps MPI should suggest that if you're going to spring for only one of those features, it should be the winter tires?

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Poor judgement allows you to do this no matter what you're driving. My point is that between max merits, AWD, and traction control, winter tires aren't doing anything but creating another expense.

Because the same things you're saying about AWD can be applied to winter tires: people with poor judgement will think all of their driver error will be absorbed by a new set of tires...

What about the poor judgement of drivers around you? Winter tires allow you to stop more quickly - that's all I need to know.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

You do see an awful lot of cars out there with AWD relative to the number of cars with winter tires. Perhaps MPI should suggest that if you're going to spring for only one of those features, it should be the winter tires?

It's becoming more and more popular. But dealers are also kind of pushing it. I know when I bought my car and wanted the bigger engine, the dealership just didn't order any of the larger engine cars without the AWD. Audi's been like that for years. The RWD was available, but they'd only order a couple a year.

It's also something that's becoming standard on a lot of mid-level vehicles these days where it wasn't before.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Riverman

What about the poor judgement of drivers around you? Winter tires allow you to stop more quickly - that's all I need to know.

Sure, but I try and keep a reasonable distance. Truth is, at the end of the day, if somebody is driving like a total jackass, no tires, traction control, or AWD system is going to stop me from getting hit. Just gotta drive defensively in the winter, I guess...

[Riverman]

Point is that tires are the limiting factor in a car's performance, in any form of racing or driving to work. It is always beneficial to have the best tires as the car can't be any better than it's tires!

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Point is that tires are the limiting factor in a car's performance, in any form of racing or driving to work. It is always beneficial to have the best tires as the car can't be any better than it's tires!

Yeah, for sure. But here's a perfect example of marginal benefit. Am I getting more in many ways for my $1500 expenditure on winter tires, or can I spend that money better elsewhere?

I'm pretty sure I can make $1500 sing much better in other ways. And since I've gone this many years without them to no real detriment, that's a pretty poor way to spend $1500.

If MPI gave me a large discount for having them, or paid for them as a thanks for not costing them anything in claims for over 15 years, then we'd be having a different conversation. But otherwise, I'm supplementing something I don't have any issue with to start...

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Yeah, for sure. But here's a perfect example of marginal benefit. Am I getting more in many ways for my $1500 expenditure on winter tires, or can I spend that money better elsewhere?

I'm pretty sure I can make $1500 sing much better in other ways. And since I've gone this many years without them to no real detriment, that's a pretty poor way to spend $1500.

If MPI gave me a large discount for having them, or paid for them as a thanks for not costing them anything in claims for over 15 years, then we'd be having a different conversation. But otherwise, I'm supplementing something I don't have any issue with to start...

I am not destroying my wheels with road salt, and my summer tires are not being worn when they are not on. There is virtually no cost to owning winter tires/wheels. It is cost neutral!

Also, try tirerack.com for tires. Sounds like you are paying retail, something no Winnipegger should do.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Riverman

I am not destroying my wheels with road salt, and my summer tires are not being worn when they are not on. There is virtually no cost to owning winter tires/wheels. It is cost neutral!

Also, try tirerack.com for tires. Sounds like you are paying retail, something no Winnipegger should do.

Or if you know somebody who happens to work at a tire shop...

There are idiot drivers out there, and regardless of AWD, 4WD, winter tires that are either studded or non-studded, at the end of the day, physics make ALL vehicles like curling rocks. Winter tires only reduces that effect, but are HIGHLY beneficial within its engineered parameters, when used correctly.

Still, drivers MUST drive to the conditions of the road, but they must also be reasonable. You can drive under the speed limit, but don't drive at 60 km/h on the perimeter on a bright sunny day with the roads bone dry and free of black ice and snow.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Riverman

I am not destroying my wheels with road salt, and my summer tires are not being worn when they are not on. There is virtually no cost to owning winter tires/wheels. It is cost neutral!

Also, try tirerack.com for tires. Sounds like you are paying retail, something no Winnipegger should do.

Yeah, for me it's that my vehicle only comes in 20's which makes my costs huge. I'll take a peak at that site, though. Thanks for the link!

[Simplicity]

Regarding the ongoing grocery discussion, front page of tomorrow's Free Press has Loblaws opening two No Frills stores in existing vacant grocery stores.

Naturally, everybody heard it here first

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Regarding the ongoing grocery discussion, front page of tomorrow's Free Press has Loblaws opening two No Frills stores in existing vacant grocery stores.

Naturally, everybody heard it here first

Good tip!

The cover of the Free Press specifically mentions the Notre Dame store being one of them... that must be a mistake given that Riverman had categorically ruled out the possibility of that happening.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show....php?p=6795814

Heh.

[Riverman]

It says the store will open - it doesn't say how long it will remain open. Once it starts bleeding money due to theft, it will close.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It says the store will open - it doesn't say how long it will remain open. Once it starts bleeding money due to theft, it will close.

Ah Riverman... Never one to concede defeat, particularly after making his point in such a condescending manner. But that's why we love you!

[Riverman]

It's not condescending, the store closed due to theft. What has changed? Nothing other than Loblaws has removed all risk and will still profit from rent. The franchisee will take the bath now.

I have admitted I was wrong a lot, but I am not in this case.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It's not condescending, the store closed due to theft. What has changed? Nothing other than Loblaws has removed all risk and will still profit from rent. The franchisee will take the bath now.

I have admitted I was wrong a lot, but I am not in this case.

I tend to agree with this point. I'm going to take a wait and see approach to this, but I wasn't surprised to see that Loblaw's was interested in downloading the risk before making any sort of commitment. This is, of course, unless the franchisee is willing to really make an investment in the crackdown on shrink. Then who knows, because there's definitely demand, it's just always been victim to the theft issue like everywhere else in low income neighbourhoods...

[esquire]

I would give the franchisee the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're not like some innocent lamb that has no idea what they're getting into.

I used to shop at that Extra Foods regularly, and while Riverman may not believe this, it was for the most part fairly busy and filled with regular people doing their routine grocery shopping. It's not like it was some crazy free for all with people pillaging the meat section and running out the store with roasts coming out of their pants.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

I would give the franchisee the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're not like some innocent lamb that has no idea what they're getting into.

I used to shop at that Extra Foods regularly, and while Riverman may not believe this, it was for the most part fairly busy and filled with regular people doing their routine grocery shopping. It's not like it was some crazy free for all with people pillaging the meat section and running out the store with roasts coming out of their pants.

The situation isn't quite as dire as Riverman is making it out to be, but there is nothing lower-margin than the grocery business. When you're operating at 3-4%, all theft matters. It's the reason there aren't any convenience stores left in the inner city.

And truthfully, the grocery market has changed in the past couple of years. Things have really tightened up on account of Wal-Mart, Giant Tiger, and the new Sobey's purchase of Safeway. In any case, I'll be really surprised to see how a discount grocer in an low income neighbourhood is able to swing it in this new super low margin reality...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

The situation isn't quite as dire as Riverman is making it out to be, but there is nothing lower-margin than the grocery business. When you're operating at 3-4%, all theft matters. It's the reason there aren't any convenience stores left in the inner city.

What do you mean? There are many of them, ranging from 7-Elevens/Macs, to independents, to corner store type operations.

For all the talk you hear on CBC about downtown Winnipeg being a food desert, I'd say it's actually reasonably well covered by food stores ranging from supermarkets to corner stores. There is only IGA, Giant Tiger and a few small (but still useful) grocers right downtown, but there are several larger retailers that are on the periphery of downtown and at least one is within walking distance for many downtown residents... like Safeway in Osborne Village and on Ellice, Young's Foods, Extra Foods on Marion, and soon No Frills.

And truthfully, the grocery market has changed in the past couple of years. Things have really tightened up on account of Wal-Mart, Giant Tiger, and the new Sobey's purchase of Safeway. In any case, I'll be really surprised to see how a discount grocer in an low income neighbourhood is able to swing it in this new super low margin reality...

Let's not forget Notre Dame is a high traffic route and there are many people living in the area. Extra Foods did a pretty lousy job of reminding people it was there. Even a slight bit of No Frills marketing will make an impact.

As for the shoplifting, surely there must be a plan in place to deal with it. The old Extra Foods always had one uniformed security guard in view... maybe No Frills will step it up.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by esquire

As for the shoplifting, surely there must be a plan in place to deal with it. The old Extra Foods always had one uniformed security guard in view... maybe No Frills will step it up.

Do you need to be reminded as to how that worked out?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Do you need to be reminded as to how that worked out?

Because I'm sure the new operator won't change a single thing