Portage and Main Proposals ideas

[buzzg]

Today concrete jersey barriers were installed blocking off the entire curb lane along the Richardson corner. Clearly some work is about to be undertaken with the barriers. I had heard from someone high up in provincial politics that they were told the barriers are coming down on that corner in order for Richardson to do their plaza work. We may be about to find out if that’s happening this year. The way they had the fencing affixed to the barriers the last few months clearly showed they weren’t concerned about long term damage to them haha.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Just conjecture on my part, but depending on how long the process takes to complete, the entire issue of speed travelling through P & M might just disappear.

If the project takes a long time to complete (a year or more? two?) then there will be a number of people who have either gotten used to needing extra time to travel through P & M, or they will have found another route. The entire argument as to how traffic will be slowed by pedestrian crossing will have faded away to a degree.

Add the extra cost of re-installing permanent barriers, and the need for keeping P & m closed to pedestrians just kind of fades away.

All IMO (and some wishful thinking) of course.

Agreed.

I've mentioned this before, but the City should take a hard look at transportation downtown and find alternate routes around downtown. Instead of jamming vehicles through P&M. Traffic there will never go away, as it's a direct route from north to south.. But there's no reason for people driving from say Disraeli to Osborne need to go through P&M. Use Logan to Isabel, for example.

I've always used princess or logan to get through. Not that using Princess is a better option for the neihghourhood. Would be interesting to see how traffic would change if P&M was closed. I'd imagine the York underpass at Main would be a shit show.

[GreyGarden]

I'm hoping that when the barricades get to a state that they need to be fixed or torn down and replaced that they're replaced simply with some nice bollards.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Agreed.

I've mentioned this before, but the City should take a hard look at transportation downtown and find alternate routes around downtown. Instead of jamming vehicles through P&M. Traffic there will never go away, as it's a direct route from north to south.. But there's no reason for people driving from say Disraeli to Osborne need to go through P&M. Use Logan to Isabel, for example.

I've always used princess or logan to get through. Not that using Princess is a better option for the neihghourhood. Would be interesting to see how traffic would change if P&M was closed. I'd imagine the York underpass at Main would be a shit show.

I think a huge factor is the horrible state of our non-existent inner ring road. If we had a proper one, people going from NW to SE Winnipeg for example would take it (CPT-Lag say) as it'd be much easier than going through Portage and Main. The entire length of Lag is a disaster and as much as going through P&M in rush hour isn't great, it's the best of bad options right now.

That York underpass is for sure not long for this world, I think (/hope) traffic will be diverted to Main Street to take Pioneer to Provencher instead of cutting through The Forks. As Railside develops we'll likely see York and FMR/Izzy Asper shrunk or have more limited access.

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I'm hoping that when the barricades get to a state that they need to be fixed or torn down and replaced that they're replaced simply with some nice bollards.

It's long past that point, they're in horrible shape. Crumbling everywhere, rebar sticking out. On the sidewalk side there's electrical outlets and lights that are damaged and hanging off, or just gone. Hell the city has like 7 different street light designs on that same corner, even they gave up. Not sure where those 4 new stainless ones (1 on each corner) came from a couple years ago.

[Wigglez]

I'm sure the crowd that was furious about potentially spending money on removing the barricades and making P&M worth a damn will be silent on the bill for the underground repairs.

[bomberjet]

Nah, it'll be labeled as a secret ploy to get rid of the barricades. The super elite pedestrian crowd wins! Your cars be damned! hazah!

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Nah, it'll be labeled as a secret ploy to get rid of the barricades. The super elite pedestrian crowd wins! Your cars be damned! hazah!

My god youre right.... the damn liberal pedestrian elite always trying to oppress the car!!!

[The Jabroni]

Hate to say I told you so?

Nah, not gonna go there, but this was inevitable. The no crowd will want to keep it closed, but you need to literally open it up and make these repairs to keep it closed, which you'll need to divert all traffic around anyway. The extent of the damage is what we have yet to find out, and whether that will take time.

This will be interesting to see and hear.

[pspeid]

I think Dan Lett has an opinion piece in the Free Press today that seems to be about how all the information supporting the "open" side wasn't available during the plebiscite debacle.

I'm not sure how much of it is "news" and how much of it is "oh, crap i voted the wrong way" (since I'm not sure how he felt on the issue), but it's nice to see some media picking up on the issue looking at a broader picture than just "cars vs. people".

[bomberjet]

I don't think there is any new info. All the info was out there at the time. Including the part about the barricades needing to come down to repair the underground. People just don't want it to be open because of their commute time.

[GreyGarden]

I agree, it was out there that the barricades would have to come down to repair the underground at the time of the plebiscite. I've been seeing more and more people in the comments sections openly saying they never really cared about the costs and that this is all about not having people at the intersection and commute times.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I agree, it was out there that the barricades would have to come down to repair the underground at the time of the plebiscite. I've been seeing more and more people in the comments sections openly saying they never really cared about the costs and that this is all about not having people at the intersection and commute times.

That's all the debate was ever about - they latched onto the """horrific price""" as an excuse since just complaining about an extra 30~ seconds on their commute wasn't a valid argument.

I know people that hated the idea of opening P&M who rarely, if ever, travel through downtown because of the horrific wait times they were expecting. The "no" crowd was for sure way more vocal and got their nonsense out to the public way more than the "yes" crowd.

[buzzg]

The only info that was out at the time was that they were crumbling and needed to be replaced, there was not details as to what exactly that meant, how extensive it would need to be, or how imminent necessary reconstruction was.

[buzzg]

Even the bare minimum repairs needed are likely to have Main down to 2-3 lanes in each direction for a couple years. So the extra minute it might take commutes to have pedestrians cross should be completely irrelevant now.

Hey, NB Main from Norwood Bridge to Broadway has been 2 lanes all week. Why isn't anyone freaking out?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

That's all the debate was ever about - they latched onto the """horrific price""" as an excuse since just complaining about an extra 30~ seconds on their commute wasn't a valid argument.

I know people that hated the idea of opening P&M who rarely, if ever, travel through downtown because of the horrific wait times they were expecting. The "no" crowd was for sure way more vocal and got their nonsense out to the public way more than the "yes" crowd.

totally. It was never about the cost, but it made people feel non-progressive to say it was about driving, so they used that as an alternate reason. How many times did I hear, we should spend the money on the meth crisis...

The cost was actually only $4 million plus a 50% contingency. The rest was to buy more buses. It drove me nuts that new buses were part of the number everyone used.

[BuildUpWpg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Agreed.

I've mentioned this before, but the City should take a hard look at transportation downtown and find alternate routes around downtown. Instead of jamming vehicles through P&M. Traffic there will never go away, as it's a direct route from north to south.. But there's no reason for people driving from say Disraeli to Osborne need to go through P&M. Use Logan to Isabel, for example.

I've always used princess or logan to get through. Not that using Princess is a better option for the neihghourhood. Would be interesting to see how traffic would change if P&M was closed. I'd imagine the York underpass at Main would be a shit show.

I hate to say it, but I think a US interstate style freeway bypassing downtown (with a few on and off ramps) is the only solution to reduce north/south traffic through downtown. However, I have no idea where the freeway could be placed. Perhaps a tunnel underneath Main St. is the only solution.

[bomberjet]

The only way is a crazy viaduct utilizing the river or a tunnel. Which are both super expensive and seem like our money could be used on a transit subway or something else entirely.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The only way is a crazy viaduct utilizing the river or a tunnel. Which are both super expensive and seem like our money could be used on a transit subway or something else entirely.

Yeah, if we ever build a tunnel under downtown, I sincerely hope it's for transit rather than a freeway.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Agreed.

I've mentioned this before, but the City should take a hard look at transportation downtown and find alternate routes around downtown. Instead of jamming vehicles through P&M. Traffic there will never go away, as it's a direct route from north to south..

Not just north-south but also east-west. Plan a route from Portage and Morray to say the Club Regent Casino without going through downtown.

It is why I keep saying the City needs an official, all modes, transportation study/plan completed. Not some piece meal isolated "improvements", not something mode specific and definitely not something that only looks at a single intersection.

Originally Posted by pspeid

Just conjecture on my part, but depending on how long the process takes to complete, the entire issue of speed travelling through P & M might just disappear.

Add the extra cost of re-installing permanent barriers, and the need for keeping P & m closed to pedestrians just kind of fades away.

Definitely laughable. The voters spoke pretty clearly on this and to go against the public opinion in the referendum is career suicide for anyone on city council. Heck if they wanted to stick their hand out on this issue it would never have gone to a public referendum in the first place. After all Bowman promised in his first campaign to open P&M to pedestrians, hopefully #TeamOpen holds him accountable for what happened next civic election.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Barricades would need to come down. No reason to put them back up.

You mean no reason other than any councilor voting to not put those barriers back up is signing their name on a dotted line to be promptly voted out of office.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by pspeid

"cars vs. people".

LMAO -- yes the problem is all those full autonomous 100% people free vehicles congesting Portage and Main.