Winnipeg Construction X

[esquire]

In addition to the pads, there are also surface parking lots that can be built on. IIRC there have been developments proposed in the past for the surface lots along Ellice and Edmonton Streets north of the mall itself. Not as cheap as building on existing foundations, but a lot more flexibility.

So the potential is there for lilwayne's prediction to come through

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Biff

If I recall, the engineering behind the pads at Portage Place are only built to support approx. 15 storeys each. So with the existing 3-4 storey podium you are looking at a 20 storey building max.

....still, would be a huge improvement.

I agree; IMO any "vertical' development of the PP site will be an improvement.

The "possible student housing" statement is interesting. Could this hint at what kind of retail might remain? I agree that the role of retail in the downtown area is not going to be what is was in the past, but personally I can still see a need for businesses like Staples, Shopper's Drug Mart, and even Dollarama. Maybe even a small downtown bookstore/cafe like McNally's used to have to offer the "student housing" market? SO much potential here!

[Biff]

This was the original.

[Wpg_Guy]

I could see a complete redevelopment and modernization of the food court into a food hall since those are all the rage these days.

Like Toronto's new Union Station:

[1ajs]

so the parking garage is worth more then the mall? at 47million?

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

so the parking garage is worth more then the mall? at 47million?

Parking garage + land + lease on air rights above the mall.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by drew

IIRC, the pads at Portage Place were always intended for residential, so we aren't going to see anything too much beyond 15-floors or so.

One was intended to be a hotel, while the other an office building.

Have to cite that from somewhere though.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

One was intended to be a hotel, while the other an office building.

Have to cite that from somewhere though.

herd it mentioned in the youtube videos of the news stories from when it opened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-UlRHmcjYI

[esquire]

The towers in the original rendering remind me a lot of One Canada Centre... had the PP towers been built right at the outset, I could imagine them strongly resembling OCC.

To pspeid's point, it's hard to imagine a Portage Place redevelopment without at least some retail space, to serve the people living and working in the immediate surroundings. Maybe there just won't be quite so much of it.

[dmacc]

300 Main will have 400 units, TNS T2 200 units I believe. How on earth are you going to fit 1000 People at 2 towers even if they are student housing? How wide will these floor plates be to accommodate that many residence?

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by dmacc

300 Main will have 400 units, TNS T2 200 units I believe. How on earth are you going to fit 1000 People at 2 towers even if they are student housing? How wide will these floor plates be to accommodate that many residence?

At this point everything is speculation, we'll have to wait and see what type of plans they actually have in mind.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

The towers in the original rendering remind me a lot of One Canada Centre... had the PP towers been built right at the outset, I could imagine them strongly resembling OCC.

To pspeid's point, it's hard to imagine a Portage Place redevelopment without at least some retail space, to serve the people living and working in the immediate surroundings. Maybe there just won't be quite so much of it.

No certainly not to the full mall capacity it has. However, it is important that that be a consideration. It has tremendous potential to provide the surrounding community with a bunch of amenities under one roof so I could see it having a reduced retail footprint but also having maybe some sort of grocery store (not a big suburban box but something with a decent stock), perhaps some sort of theatre (I wish IMAX were still alive there), and a bookstore of some sorts to serve the central community. I think it could be done.

True that a part of retail has been sucked up by the Amazons and online shopping retailers, but there will always be a demand for bricks and mortar stores, I certainly know I prefer shopping in person.

[Wpg_Guy]

According to the Shareholder Approval for the Sale of Portage Place Shopping Centre by North Portage Development Corporation and Assignment of Related Skywalk Agreements document this has been in the works since 2015.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
North Portage Development Corporation (“NPDC”) and Spruceland Mall Limited Partnership (aka Peterson Group) have entered into a purchase and sale agreement to sell Portage Place Shopping Centre, and the associated land and parking, to Starlight Acquisitions Ltd., subject to shareholder approval.
As the City of Winnipeg is a shareholder of NPDC, its approval is required in order for the transaction to proceed. In addition, as part of the transaction, certain skywalk agreements will need to be assigned to Starlight Acquisitions Ltd., for which the City’s approval is also required.

HISTORY/DISCUSSION
In 2015, Spruceland approached NPDC and requested that the Mall and the NPDC Assets be packaged together and offered for sale. The NPDC board of directors agreed to this proposal,recognizing the potential that could be realized:

• re-development of an underutilized building;
• development of the two existing development pads, at the west and east ends of the Portage Place Mall;
• revitalization of the North Portage neighbourhood and the potential to spur development in adjacent properties;
• opportunity to increase the property tax base;
• potential to attract new private investment dollars into Winnipeg.

Portage Place was offered for sale nationally. As a result of this process, an interested real estate organization emerged. In due course, after negotiations took place, a legally confidential Purchase and Sale Agreement (PSA) between NPDC, Spruceland and Starlight Acquisitions Ltd. (“Starlight”) was signed and the terms were approved by the NPDC Board at their June 13, 2019 meeting and recommended to the shareholders for final approval. The City has obtained written consent from the parties to the transaction to provide Council with certain terms and conditions required to assist in evaluating the request for approval, which are attached hereto as Schedule A.
Starlight is a Canadian development company with a proven track record in both Canada and the US. With a focus on both adaptive reuse and mixed-use developments their current portfolio of new builds or adaptations consists of 40 projects with approximately 11.5 Million square feet, 10,000 residential units and 1 million square feet of commercial located in major urban centres throughout Canada.

Their plan in Winnipeg is to adapt and create a vibrant, inclusive mixed-use development with a core of purpose-built rental on top of street level retail and services. Collaborative community, stakeholder and business consultation will follow any purchase to determine the market for rental. Preliminary research indicates that the area is in need of rental student housing, as is true in most urban Canadian centres. The project will also include street-level retail to serve the neighbourhood and new residents in towers above the property. Any plan created will maintain the skywalk system through the site.

[esquire]

Two towers dedicated to student housing seems like a lot, but I suppose it's the only option for developing the pads given that TNS has flooded the market with new office space. I suppose it's possible that there could be one student housing-oriented tower and perhaps another (the east pad?) dedicated to regular apartments, or possibly even a hotel?

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by esquire

Two towers dedicated to student housing seems like a lot, but I suppose it's the only option for developing the pads given that TNS has flooded the market with new office space. I suppose it's possible that there could be one student housing-oriented tower and perhaps another (the east pad?) dedicated to regular apartments, or possibly even a hotel?

The student housing to me seems like a bait and switch. Student housing sounds great on paper, maybe that wording was used to entice this deal and to ensure it cruises through the government sector approval process. Kind of how True North Square was to have an affordable housing component that was scrapped for market rentals.
Hopefully with 300 Main, TNS, Medical Arts and 285 Smith, completed or nearing completion by the time this development gets underway the market demand will be there for more then student housing.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Its great that there is all this potential residential development on the cusp of fruition. However, the decline of our city centre retail is still occuring. It doesn't take a genius to realize as we approach a state of critical mass, there will be increasing demand for downtown retail shopping once again.

Currently we have two significant areas of mass retail; Portage Place Shopping Centre and CityPlace. The bones are there for significant retail development. But are both needed to accommodate the eventual demand for shopping in the city centre? Is only one of these locations needed? If so, which one should we keep? We cannot afford to lose two significant commercial retail shopping centre structures. The Bay would eventually rebound, but it's a question of how long are they willing to wait around for.

We are so bloody close to that tipping point. It's very frustrating to think about what we have and what we could lose to eventually meet the demand for what is developing.

I wouldn't be concerned... as downtown improves, retail always follows. If the market supports more residential, and it does (student or otherwise), then retail should naturally follow.

Originally Posted by LilZebra

I agree that the mall should be bulldozed. Bye bye Food Court. Save the clock, which is from the 19th century City Hall. Build regular street front retail (no cell phone stores!). Put a Harry Rosen or Tip Top, Polo Ralph Lauren, H&M. Discourage riff raff from hanging around "north Portage area" around former Portage Pl. mall. Constant Police walking patrols and / or Downtown BIZ Patrol.

Residential and offices. But make the residential condos. rather than apartments so to keep OUT the riff-raff.

I mostly agree. Such vendors would be beneficial to downtown. Security will be important, but I'm not as concerned as you.

Apartments or condos shouldn't bring in riff raff, because the cost to support the construction would put rents out of reach. If it's student housing, that's also good.

Originally Posted by ywgwalk

So you want to increase the number of people who live downtown/near Portage Place while at the same time remove any of the stores that they would actually utilize?

I'm looking forward to hearing what the plans are, but at the same time PP is a very useful (and quite busy whenever I'm there) mall for people that live downtown. Staples, Shoppers, Warehouse One, the various cell stores, etc, etc are all open evenings and weekends and are busier than what most people suggest on here.

Useful stores will remain, as every landlord likes a Shoppers and surely a Staples close to universities is smart. However a majority of the retail currently in place isn't relevant enough.

Originally Posted by dmacc

With $69 million going towards the sale of the property that leaves $231 Million left for development. With pads already in place much like 300 Main that is plenty of money to build 2 towers and redo the mall area.

300 Main was $130ish million for a 40 story building, I can't imagine the 2 Towers at PP costing much more then $150-$200? That leaves a minimum of $31 million to rework the mall. Granted my numbers are only slightly less then just guesses with sprinkles of factual numbers.

Nooooo 300 Main is way more than that. Dunno where you got that figure.

Not trying to be an ass, but it's a large project. Probably $200M or so. I mean, TNS with it's 2 smaller structures plus world beater plaza (lol) was over $400M, and 300 Main appears nicely spec'd.

Originally Posted by esquire

Two towers dedicated to student housing seems like a lot, but I suppose it's the only option for developing the pads given that TNS has flooded the market with new office space. I suppose it's possible that there could be one student housing-oriented tower and perhaps another (the east pad?) dedicated to regular apartments, or possibly even a hotel?

I'm sure not all of it will be, but student housing is a great move. Hopefully it hints at a greater intent to attract more national and international students at u of w, who are more able to a) pay bigger rent and b) NEED the retail and amenities more than locals c) have more spending power for PP.

[Wpg_Guy]

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Nooooo 300 Main is way more than that. Dunno where you got that figure.

Not trying to be an ass, but it's a large project. Probably $200M or so. I mean, TNS with it's 2 smaller structures plus world beater plaza (lol) was over $400M, and 300 Main appears nicely spec'd.

I'm assuming he got it from this WFP story on the project that has that figure. Where are you getting your number from (speaking of asses)?

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...373789981.html

The $140-million project would not only include the construction of a 40-storey apartment tower, but the $35 million recladding of 360 Main, the 30-storey office tower formerly known as the Trizec Building, and owned by Artis, the real estate investment trust headed by CEO Armin Martens

[inlp89]

Originally Posted by Biff

This was the original.

Would these towers be developed the same way as 300 main? ie the podiums are built out? How much of the malls main floor, if any, would be used for the tower? could they build it on top of the food court or do you think they will use the main floor for amenities and other infrastructure related to the tower?

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by esquire

In addition to the pads, there are also surface parking lots that can be built on. IIRC there have been developments proposed in the past for the surface lots along Ellice and Edmonton Streets north of the mall itself. Not as cheap as building on existing foundations, but a lot more flexibility.

So the potential is there for lilwayne's prediction to come through

This is not good news for SODOSOPA. Maybe they crossed that line some time ago?