Saskatoon Construction III - Page 44

The Bess · #**861** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 5:20 PM**

I agree about keeping the mills, it would seem strange to not see them on the horizon. I actually worked in the rapeseed plant side in my younger days unloading the boxcars, loading semi's and inside with the presses.

Horko · #**862** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 6:12 PM**

I've lived in the shadow of those mills my entire life, and i'm all for preserving local history but if this arena is built downtown then something is going to have to go. A minimum of two square blocks not including parking space will be changed forever. What two blocks should be razed? I think the best option is on the mill site or close to it, north of the CP tracks.

prairieguy · #**863** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 6:24 PM**

I think there could be opportunity on the Toys'r'us site and midtown parking lot, but problem there would be no extra room to connect to a convention centre. It may be that the North Downtown would be the only piece of land that could accommodate both. I believe the report did contain several recommended downtown locations, so maybe the consultants are aware of other options.

saskatoonborn · #**864** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 6:33 PM**

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local...nion-contracts

If you read the article it starts to talk about how the city bought the former STC lands that they were already using downtown. This triangular section of land is part of the masterplan for North downtown.

mitchellk12 · #**865** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echoes

Hear hear.

The people peddling the tired arguments about a parking and traffic apocalypse with a downtown arena fail to apply any critical thinking to the matter.

The parking study that the City did a couple of years ago found something like 12,000 parking spaces downtown. That's far more than what's required for a ~15,000 seat arena. Some people may have to walk a few blocks, but many are already walking the equivalent at SaskTel Centre when they park all the way along Thatcher Ave almost all the way to Marquis Dr.

What's more, is that a downtown location automatically makes other modes of travel more practical. More people can walk and cycle (I'd be able to do so easily), and taking transit (with park and ride at the malls) becomes a far more viable option with BRT on the way anyway. More out-of-towners will choose to stay at downtown hotels and their cars will stay parked there.

As for traffic, there are more ways into and out of downtown than SaskTel Centre. Simple as that. Michelle Obama had a crowd of 8,000 last night and traffic was still a nightmare up there. With the downtown food and drink options, some people will choose to come downtown earlier, or stay later, making for a more staggered exodus after an event. With SaskTel Centre, people essentially arrive and leave all at the same time.

Even John Gormley is on-side with the *urban* solution of a downtown arena.

C'mon people, in no world is SaskTel Centre's current location better than a downtown option. (Preaching to the choir on this page, I know.)

As prarieguy said...its perfect for an article. Id love to post this on my downtown arena post on my fb page. But you hit it, no critical thinking is even involved from those who are opposed to the arena.

saskatoonborn · #**866** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 6:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairieguy

I think there could be opportunity on the Toys'r'us site and midtown parking lot, but problem there would be no extra room to connect to a convention centre. It may be that the North Downtown would be the only piece of land that could accommodate both. I believe the report did contain several recommended downtown locations, so maybe the consultants are aware of other options.

I Think maybe you could get Cushman and Wakefield involved in the project (they even had a convention center in their old masterplan for midtown). You could then feasibly throw a convention center there and a stadium across from the bay(as Echoes has suggested in the past).

I do think that putting the stadium too far from third would be a mistake. Need reasonable access to transit facilities so people would rather bus then drive to events.

prairieguy · #**867** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 6:54 PM**

i also think the closer this facility can built to the existing pubs and restaurants downtown, the better....which for the most part are all south of 23rd street. Given the mentality of Saskatoon residents, having to walk 4 or more blocks (if arena was in north end) to restaurants and pubs would be too much. And honestly, I don't think we have enough demand/population to develop another 'entertainment district' with its own pubs and restaurants.

South seems to make most sense...tie into Remai Modern, Persephone and Farmers Market amenities, as well.

Horko · #**868** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 6:57 PM**

If it the arena/convention complex gets built to the North of downtown, the unused CN line can be used as a green space/walkway as per the North Downtown Master Plan. The old CN tracks end at 25th st, from there it's nothing but small parking lots leading right to the North doors of Midtown Plaza and TCU place. Extend the walkway all the way down. This would nicely tie in the North end to the downtown core. With all that foot traffic the walkway area would fill with pubs and restaurants, patio's and shops. If you want to get really nutty, put in place a trolley system along side the walkway going back and forth during peak times. Ding ding. Not everyone can walk 4 or 5 blocks, especially in weather like today.

The Bess · #**869** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 7:16 PM**

Here's a poll done Insightrix Research for TCU and SaskTel place in 2016 and 2017 asking if stadium should be located downtown.

http://www.sasknow.ca/local-news/sup...ention-complex

Echoes · #**870** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskatoonborn

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local...nion-contracts

If you read the article it starts to talk about how the city bought the former STC lands that they were already using downtown. This triangular section of land is part of the masterplan for North downtown.

The great thing about this move is that it will allow the City to vacate the John Deere building, a big step towards handing over the building to the U of S for a school of architecture.

And if I'm reading the City report on purchase of this facility correctly, it will allow them to transition parts of the city yards operations to this more northerly site, freeing up some area further to the south for initial phases of the North Downtown Master Plan, once that gets underway.

alt_center · #**871** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 8:20 PM**

It is my opinion that the north downtown (i.e, north of 25th st) is too far away from the core area of hotels / bars / restaurants / transit / river / etc. to really maximize the potential. And I fear that because that area is spacious, there could be demands to include big parking lots as part of any development.

Looking at Google earth really illustrates this for me. I think the toys-r-us site offers TONS of potential. Across 20th st. is a large parking lot and the now vacant sears store. Across 1st ave is yet another large parking lot. All together that is a vast amount of space there begging for redevelopment.

Of course there are big, big issues (such as various land owners, 20th st, 1st ave, etc) but good architects should be able to come up with clever solutions. As with everything it boils down to $$$.

Horko · #**872** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 10:01 PM**

I got a feeling that when the powers that be make their final decision, if it's going downtown, it has to be somewhere in the Central Industrial area. Compare the size of our little Sask Place to the Toy's are Us lot. Even without parking there's not enough room. Same with the lot directly north of Midtown. Any large project like this needs room for staging and storage during construction not to mention the disruption 1.5 to 2 years construction time will cause. And i would prefer to see an expandable sports/entertainment center connected to a expandable convention center. Not an all in one complex. A guy can dream.

WoodlandCritter · #**873** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horko

I got a feeling that when the powers that be make their final decision, if it's going downtown, it has to be somewhere in the Central Industrial area. Compare the size of our little Sask Place to the Toy's are Us lot. Even without parking there's not enough room. Same with the lot directly north of Midtown. Any large project like this needs room for staging and storage during construction not to mention the disruption 1.5 to 2 years construction time will cause. And i would prefer to see an expandable sports/entertainment center connected to a expandable convention center. Not an all in one complex. A guy can dream.

I believe someone had a scaled version of SaskPlace and dropped it in those locations and there was just enough room, with maybe a little wiggle room. Can't seem to find those old posts.

If they knocked down the Hilton Garden hotel and the buildings behind (which I believe use to be rented by the Police department prior to their move) That whole city block along 1st Ave N. would be open for development. They could even try to make it an Arena/Hotel/condo development like there is in Vancouver. Just a thought.

But I do think building a new arena in the central industrial area/north downtown would miss the mark on having it in the heart of downtown.

Echoes · #**874** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 10:25 PM**

You might be interested in these images posted by a Twitter user, showing scale versions of different real life arenas imposed on the Midtown lots (they fit):

https://twitter.com/Bertrand_SK/stat...41068477480961
https://twitter.com/Bertrand_SK/stat...84271516745728

I see the merits of the Toys 'R Us site given how it can tie into River Landing and Riversdale, but I still think the north Midtown lot is the better choice.

The BRT will be running right past it on 22nd Street, and there's an opportunity for a skywalk connection to TCU Place/Sid Buckwold Theatre (and Midtown Plaza). Then the convention centre could extend west from current TCU Place between Auditorium Ave and Idylwyld Dr. Sure, the YMCA is currently in the way, but integrate them into a redevelopment, and then the City already owns all the parking lots west of the YMCA along Idylwyld.

I also believe there's more land around the north Midtown lot that can be redeveloped so that we fully realize the much touted development spinoffs. There's the old STC depot, parking lots, and plenty of properties on Pacific Ave and Wall St ripe for something new.

I think a North Downtown location is just too far away from the core of downtown. That area is better suited being redeveloped as a mixed-use neighbourhood to supplement the downtown, as is intended. Keep the downtown action of an arena and convention centre in the downtown.

The S'toon Goon · #**875** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 10:36 PM**

In regards to the toys r us site. I wonder if there would be an appetite to encroaching on to 1st Ave? If we removed the current east bound lanes that would give the site a bit more room. I would then switch the current west bound lanes to a one way east bound between Idylwyld and 1st. 19th should be able to handle the extra west bound traffic.

While I am spitballing fantasy, maybe the owners of midtown can arrange a deal/trade for TCUP and Sears. Build the new convention center on Sears and the mall can expand towards the TCU. Logistics are likely impossible but one can daydream a little.

The S'toon Goon · #**876** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 10:44 PM**

Oops, I meant if the site were to encroach onto 20th. Proofreading is hard..

Horko · #**877** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 11:23 PM**

So if the complex is built on the Toys are Us lot with zero room for parking, where do all the semi trucks and huge motor homes from these massive traveling shows park? Where do all the employee's park? Me thinks there's just not enough room. That property is much more suited for a high rise office/condo development...but i could be wrong.

macca · #**878** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 11:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horko

So if the complex is built on the Toys are Us lot with zero room for parking, where do all the semi trucks and huge motor homes from these massive traveling shows park? Where do all the employee's park? Me thinks there's just not enough room. That property is much more suited for a high rise office/condo development...but i could be wrong.

where do they park in manhattan?

Crisis · #**879** Posted **Mar 23, 2018, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by macca

where do they park in manhattan?

Beneath the arena at MSG, I believe. The arena there is elevated and, as I recall, the loading/service area is all at grade beneath the arena.

Lots of added cost to do that. Saskatoon and Manhattan = apples & watermelons.

saskatoonborn · #**880** Posted **Mar 24, 2018, 1:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horko

So if the complex is built on the Toys are Us lot with zero room for parking, where do all the semi trucks and huge motor homes from these massive traveling shows park? Where do all the employee's park? Me thinks there's just not enough room. That property is much more suited for a high rise office/condo development...but i could be wrong.

Well luckily its not like there are a dozen surface lots in the area near by. One of thes could be purchased and used for the trucks and busses during events that require them and used as public parking the rest of the time. Much like a reserved parking meter for example. I doesnt have to be beside andor underneath it.