Western Expresso

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

You mean like running a countries economy into the ground and spending the country into a debt we will never get out of!?

Well, a lot of that debt was used to prop up the wealthy and their assets, increasing inequality, but really, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill in regards to the debt. Canada will be fine economically but not if less and less people are able to afford their necessities while also having spending money left over to put into the economy. If excessive inequality breaks the social fabric, then that too will have an effect on the economy. Do you know what else will fuck the economy? Climate change. So, the national debt, which is still lower than many other wealthy countries, is realistically on the low end of the problems our country is facing.

[Riverman]

Climate change will do nothing but drive more and more people into poverty as a result of stupid government policy.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Climate change will do nothing but drive more and more people into poverty as a result of stupid government policy.

I agree, which is why we need smart policy that lowers our carbon emissions to eventually zero and ensures people have jobs, while collaborating with our trading partners and other countries to ensure they are also working on these things since it's a global problem. When the inevitable climate migrations happen from countries that will become too hot and/or wet, such as Bangladesh and most countries in the Middle East (hell, even Arizona and Florida), we have to make sure these 100s of millions of people have places to go, lest even further violent conflicts begin to happen in those areas and around the world. And of course we have to protect our fresh water sources as well as Arctic trade routes, which will quickly become targets for other countries. Now, I'm sure this isn't what you meant by your message but this is the reality we are facing. Nothing else really matters, to be honest, and if we keep kicking the can down the road, it's only going to be harder to react to.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Nothing else really matters, to be honest, and if we keep kicking the can down the road, it's only going to be harder to react to.

There's almost no road left. Quite frankly this slavish devotion on the part of some to the fossil fuel industry confounds me. Unless those posters are all major shareholders in oil companies (or are employed by them) I can't see any logical reason to keep defending the status quo.

Here are my uneducated opinions on the issue (for what they're worth):

Even if government revenue falls short term because of a reduction in the oil & gas industry, they will find other revenue streams associated with clean energy providers. Governments can get very "creative" when it comes to finding $$, I have no doubt they will find something to tax in clean energy.

Even if investment funds lose some of their perceived value, they will rebound by investing in more profitable ventures than oil & gas.

Even if all cars and trucks go electric, Oil & Gas companies will not disappear completely. Their product will still be needed for the construction of plastics, construction and a number of other uses. They will simply make less profit than they do now. Boo hoo.

Even if climate change is a complete and utter hoax, as some still believe, cleaning up the air and water from the decades of crap we have been putting into it is worth a reduction in the oil & gas industry, IMO. Again, boo hoo oil & gas industry.

Ultimately, however, change happens. Burning wood gives way to coal, burning coal gives way to oil and natural gas, oil & natural gas will give way to a more efficient energy source.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by pspeid

There's almost no road left. Quite frankly this slavish devotion on the part of some to the fossil fuel industry confounds me. Unless those posters are all major shareholders in oil companies (or are employed by them) I can't see any logical reason to keep defending the status quo.

Here are my uneducated opinions on the issue (for what they're worth):

Even if government revenue falls short term because of a reduction in the oil & gas industry, they will find other revenue streams associated with clean energy providers. Governments can get very "creative" when it comes to finding $$, I have no doubt they will find something to tax in clean energy.

Even if investment funds lose some of their perceived value, they will rebound by investing in more profitable ventures than oil & gas.

Even if all cars and trucks go electric, Oil & Gas companies will not disappear completely. Their product will still be needed for the construction of plastics, construction and a number of other uses. They will simply make less profit than they do now. Boo hoo.

Even if climate change is a complete and utter hoax, as some still believe, cleaning up the air and water from the decades of crap we have been putting into it is worth a reduction in the oil & gas industry, IMO. Again, boo hoo oil & gas industry.

Ultimately, however, change happens. Burning wood gives way to coal, burning coal gives way to oil and natural gas, oil & natural gas will give way to a more efficient energy source.

A lot the people who are so pro-oil and quick to label someone like me as "anti-Sask" are unfortunately just useful tools for the oil and gas industry. These companies and the politicians they bought appeal to the emotions of regular people and do everything they can to make the oil and gas industry their entire identity. The Sask Party government here does it all the time with their marketing on social media. It's the main reason I quickly fell out of their support (and also deleted Facebook and Twitter). It's sad how easy people are pulled in and I actually have a lot of empathy for a lot of them (though others should know better and are just greedy assholes who want to keep the easy profits flowing). But we will get through this if we have the courage to ditch the status quo and invest time and resources into doing things smarter and more sustainably (and not just what is the most profitable). We've been doing it for 100s of thousands of years as humans. Today is no different.

[LilZebra]

As of Thursday morning Sep. 23 I'm leaving here for good.

I've applied for MAID (medical assistance in dying) and was approved as of last Thurs.

My reasons are that I'm experiencing too much physical pain (more leg neuropathy, total blindness in right eye, photosensitive in left eye, too much dialysis sessions, too many diabetes pills, too many homecare visits) that I've exceeded my theshhold for pain.

Too bad I won't seec the opening of rail transit here.

Closing this chapter in my soul's evolution and abbout to start a new one.

You've all been great acquaintences over the years. Many thanks,

Hope to see some of you in the afterlife.

Till then...

James A. Jaworski (aka LilZebra) signing out.

[esquire]

^ I'm shocked to read this. I'm very sorry to hear that your health complications have gotten to this point. I've always enjoyed reading your comments and insights going back to the old days of wpg.general on usenet. I wish you all the best, and I hope you find peace. Farewell.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

A lot the people who are so pro-oil and quick to label someone like me as "anti-Sask" are unfortunately just useful tools for the oil and gas industry. These companies and the politicians they bought appeal to the emotions of regular people and do everything they can to make the oil and gas industry their entire identity. The Sask Party government here does it all the time with their marketing on social media. It's the main reason I quickly fell out of their support (and also deleted Facebook and Twitter). It's sad how easy people are pulled in and I actually have a lot of empathy for a lot of them (though others should know better and are just greedy assholes who want to keep the easy profits flowing). But we will get through this if we have the courage to ditch the status quo and invest time and resources into doing things smarter and more sustainably (and not just what is the most profitable). We've been doing it for 100s of thousands of years as humans. Today is no different.

Oil use and growth of production will continue to increase following population. There is no stopping it. No oil and everybody starves to death. This is one haunting fact few people seem to realize.

The "climate crisis" and "climate emergency" types are sounding more stupid almost daily. Fuel use is necessary and suggesting today's society can live without fossil fuels is just silly.

There was an enormous sense of fear among the informed around here when discussions about Line 5 were at their height. Actual, real fear. The amount of oil tankers on the Great Lakes and trucks on the highways to replace the pipeline's capacity is just staggering.

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Oil use and growth of production will continue to increase following population. There is no stopping it. No oil and everybody starves to death. This is one haunting fact few people seem to realize.

The "climate crisis" and "climate emergency" types are sounding more stupid almost daily. Fuel use is necessary and suggesting today's society can live without fossil fuels is just silly.

There was an enormous sense of fear among the informed around here when discussions about Line 5 were at their height. Actual, real fear. The amount of oil tankers on the Great Lakes and trucks on the highways to replace the pipeline's capacity is just staggering.

I will never understand this argument.

Nobody is advocating for shutting off all fossil fuels tomorrow. They ARE advocating for transitioning to other sources of energy, and turning off fossil fuels as capacity comes online.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Oil use and growth of production will continue to increase following population. There is no stopping it. No oil and everybody starves to death. This is one haunting fact few people seem to realize.

Nothing is guaranteed in life. But we as a society have the ability to prevent a complete collapse of our climate and thus our society and economy, and it starts with slowing down oil production.

Originally Posted by Riverman

The "climate crisis" and "climate emergency" types are sounding more stupid almost daily. Fuel use is necessary and suggesting today's society can live without fossil fuels is just silly.

Humanity made it to the 1900s without oil. We have even more technology now than we had then. There are many more sources of energy today. Don't be such a defeatist. Besides, we MUST live without fossil fuels eventually. Might as well begin the process of winding it down now before we completely destroy our planet and make it inhabitable for a majority of humans.

Originally Posted by Riverman

There was an enormous sense of fear among the informed around here when discussions about Line 5 were at their height. Actual, real fear. The amount of oil tankers on the Great Lakes and trucks on the highways to replace the pipeline's capacity is just staggering.

And thus why we must slow down oil production.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by DirectionNorth

I will never understand this argument.

Nobody is advocating for shutting off all fossil fuels tomorrow. They ARE advocating for transitioning to other sources of energy, and turning off fossil fuels as capacity comes online.

It's par for the course for the shills of the fossil fuel industry. They really don't have any other arguments except these same ones they have been repeating for 15+ years. As their arguments stay the same, our climate changes along with the extreme weather and other phenomena that comes from it, whether it's stronger hurricanes, more frequent floods, larger and quicker temperature swings, shorter fall and spring seasons, the spreading of bugs and diseases northward, the thawing of permafrost which releases both methane and ancient bacteria, dryer conditions resulting in more wildfires, and the drought that has been plaguing much of the prairies for the past several years. People can bury their heads in sand but they're still going to be effected be climate change whether they choose to accept it or not.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

As of Thursday morning Sep. 23 I'm leaving here for good.

I've applied for MAID (medical assistance in dying) and was approved as of last Thurs.

My reasons are that I'm experiencing too much physical pain (more leg neuropathy, total blindness in right eye, photosensitive in left eye, too much dialysis sessions, too many diabetes pills, too many homecare visits) that I've exceeded my theshhold for pain.

Too bad I won't seec the opening of rail transit here.

Closing this chapter in my soul's evolution and abbout to start a new one.

You've all been great acquaintences over the years. Many thanks,

Hope to see some of you in the afterlife.

Till then...

James A. Jaworski (aka LilZebra) signing out.

Take care James. I'm sorry that you have been taken to this point with your health issues, but completely understand why you are doing it. I'm glad that you are able to take some control in a safe and planned way.

Goodbye, until we meet again.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

As of Thursday morning Sep. 23 I'm leaving here for good.

I've applied for MAID (medical assistance in dying) and was approved as of last Thurs.

My reasons are that I'm experiencing too much physical pain (more leg neuropathy, total blindness in right eye, photosensitive in left eye, too much dialysis sessions, too many diabetes pills, too many homecare visits) that I've exceeded my theshhold for pain.

Too bad I won't seec the opening of rail transit here.

Closing this chapter in my soul's evolution and abbout to start a new one.

You've all been great acquaintences over the years. Many thanks,

Hope to see some of you in the afterlife.

Till then...

James A. Jaworski (aka LilZebra) signing out.

Cheers James, thanks for your years of contributions here.

[peg]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

As of Thursday morning Sep. 23 I'm leaving here for good.

I've applied for MAID (medical assistance in dying) and was approved as of last Thurs.

My reasons are that I'm experiencing too much physical pain (more leg neuropathy, total blindness in right eye, photosensitive in left eye, too much dialysis sessions, too many diabetes pills, too many homecare visits) that I've exceeded my theshhold for pain.

Too bad I won't seec the opening of rail transit here.

Closing this chapter in my soul's evolution and abbout to start a new one.

You've all been great acquaintences over the years. Many thanks,

Hope to see some of you in the afterlife.

Till then...

James A. Jaworski (aka LilZebra) signing out.

Thanks for all of your insights and comments James. Your contributions here will be missed.

I hope you and your soul find peace wherever you may end up. Hopefully, it is a place with rail transit .

Best of luck with everything and take care

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

As of Thursday morning Sep. 23 I'm leaving here for good.

I've applied for MAID (medical assistance in dying) and was approved as of last Thurs.

My reasons are that I'm experiencing too much physical pain (more leg neuropathy, total blindness in right eye, photosensitive in left eye, too much dialysis sessions, too many diabetes pills, too many homecare visits) that I've exceeded my theshhold for pain.

Too bad I won't seec the opening of rail transit here.

Closing this chapter in my soul's evolution and abbout to start a new one.

You've all been great acquaintences over the years. Many thanks,

Hope to see some of you in the afterlife.

Till then...

James A. Jaworski (aka LilZebra) signing out.

Very sad news James. I wish you a great journey.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

As of Thursday morning Sep. 23 I'm leaving here for good.

I've applied for MAID (medical assistance in dying) and was approved as of last Thurs.

My reasons are that I'm experiencing too much physical pain (more leg neuropathy, total blindness in right eye, photosensitive in left eye, too much dialysis sessions, too many diabetes pills, too many homecare visits) that I've exceeded my theshhold for pain.

Too bad I won't seec the opening of rail transit here.

Closing this chapter in my soul's evolution and abbout to start a new one.

You've all been great acquaintences over the years. Many thanks,

Hope to see some of you in the afterlife.

Till then...

James A. Jaworski (aka LilZebra) signing out.

Take care James / LilZebra. Wishing you peace on your journey.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

It's par for the course for the shills of the fossil fuel industry. They really don't have any other arguments except these same ones they have been repeating for 15+ years. As their arguments stay the same, our climate changes along with the extreme weather and other phenomena that comes from it, whether it's stronger hurricanes, more frequent floods, larger and quicker temperature swings, shorter fall and spring seasons, the spreading of bugs and diseases northward, the thawing of permafrost which releases both methane and ancient bacteria, dryer conditions resulting in more wildfires, and the drought that has been plaguing much of the prairies for the past several years. People can bury their heads in sand but they're still going to be effected be climate change whether they choose to accept it or not.

Your Greta-based alarmist attitude is moronic and has been throughly debunked by many experts.

https://nationalpost.com/sponsored/n...6uVz9WT2xyy8JI

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Your Greta-based alarmist attitude is moronic and has been throughly debunked by many experts.

https://nationalpost.com/sponsored/n...6uVz9WT2xyy8JI

Your link is sponsored content from a corporate-owned, highly-conservative publication, and is not journalism. This isn’t debatable anymore. You’re sounding like someone still debating the efficacy of the Covid vaccines or wearing masks. Just stop, you’re embarrassing yourself.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Your link is sponsored content from a corporate-owned, highly-conservative publication, and is not journalism. This isn’t debatable anymore. You’re sounding like someone still debating the efficacy of the Covid vaccines or wearing masks. Just stop, you’re embarrassing yourself.

Here's a pretty solid rebuttal of the book mentioned in the sponsored National Post article. Note that this rebuttal has not been sponsored by anybody with something to gain.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-badly-wrong/

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

Here's a pretty solid rebuttal of the book mentioned in the sponsored National Post article. Note that this rebuttal has not been sponsored by anybody with something to gain.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-badly-wrong/

But according to Steve Koonin, who is a “physicist and not an economist” (nor a climate scientist), his piece “drew thousands of online comments, the great majority of them supportive.” It’s settled!