[St. John's] Restaurant Thread

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by cam477

I think St. John’s has one of the best restaurant selections per capita of anywhere in the country. I can’t think of another city that I’ve been to with a population even close to ours (or even a couple times larger) that has as many great restaurants as us. However, two areas I feel we’re lacking is high-end Chinese and Italian. So I think both restaurants are going to do really well.

But I’ve heard locals complain in the past that we don’t have other chains like Outback, Red Lobster, Applbees, Moxies, Jack Astors, Kelsey’s etc and I don’t really get it. We already have so many great restaurants in this city that I find it hard to believe people feel like we’re lacking much of anything. I’ve always felt a lot of us Newfoundlanders are fixated with having what they have on the mainland. Just because they have it on the mainland doesn’t make it better. I can name 15 or 20 restaurants in the city that blow all of the chains out of the water. But to each their own and I’m sure all those chains will eventually make it to our city.

I think people just have this misinformed idea that these restaurants are good because they hear about them in the media all the time. Truth is most chain restaurants have average to less than average food, most of it is frozen until ordered. For an extra few dollars, you can go down to a place like Aqua and get excellent, fresh food, made by a properly trained chef. Many chain restaurants allow some less qualified cooks into their kitchen.

People like my parents would probably chose to eat at Montanas over Aqua simply because they've heard about it. It's a shame, because our city has amazing restaurants. St. John's has developed into a foodies dream city; there are high-quality restaurants littered everywhere, most all of which are reasonably priced

[Ayreonaut]

Is there any good Greek in town? It's probably my favourite European cuisine but I haven't had any here.

[SignalHillHiker]

Mama Soula's isn't great in a national sense - it's very average Greek food... but it does advertise as the only Greek place in town.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

Is there any good Greek in town? It's probably my favourite European cuisine but I haven't had any here.

Yeah, Greek is lacking in St. John's. The one time I went to Mama Soulas was okay, but I definitely wouldn't die to go back there again.

[mrjanejacobs]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

I think people just have this misinformed idea that these restaurants are good because they hear about them in the media all the time. Truth is most chain restaurants have average to less than average food, most of it is frozen until ordered. For an extra few dollars, you can go down to a place like Aqua and get excellent, fresh food, made by a properly trained chef. Many chain restaurants allow some less qualified cooks into their kitchen.

People like my parents would probably chose to eat at Montanas over Aqua simply because they've heard about it. It's a shame, because our city has amazing restaurants. St. John's has developed into a foodies dream city; there are high-quality restaurants littered everywhere, most all of which are reasonably priced

I agree with what you're saying that St.John's has a good selection of food. There are two problems I would point out though: affordability and global variety. You can get great food in St.John's, but you have to pay a premium. Even the cheesy chains from the mainland are pretty costly, despite their vast economies of scale and big-box mentalities. Yet they still manage to gauge the consumer. I am definitely not that excited when I hear they are setting up shop in St.John's. Sure, it's good to have more of these options, but it really isn't quality food for the price you pay.

In Montreal or Toronto (to name the easiest options), you can get amazing food for 5-10$. It's not as glamorous as a sit-down but it's damn good. You can also find cheap sit-down places for similar prices with decent grub. Mainlanders who visit St.John's are always disturbed by how expensive our restaurants are in the downtown.

I also wouldn't say that St.John's has a very eclectic mix of cuisine. For a city of its size, I think it's doing pretty well. But the big-box chains are the biggest threat to whatever we have going for us. Foods which we don't have (enough of, if at all) which I prefer: Turkish, Lebanese, Greek, Thai, Vietnamese, Venezuelan, Israeli, etc. And what happened to good fast food? It's like in SJ, fast food means McDicks, Burger King, Mary Brown's. I can't begin to name the fast food in other cities which is quick, delicious and cheap (yet not generic) - it's like every city I've ever been to has an Asian noodle kiosk run by some old Asian couple serving 3$ boxes of noodles... Or a kebap place with $3 pitas.

[mrjanejacobs]

Gahhh - read some past posts - I am not sure how fantastic it is that PF Chang's is opening in that location. It's definitely not good news for downtown locations. Good because it will mean more competition, but at the same time - many small businesses which offer better, higher quality food, will have a really hard time competing with a giant like PF Chang's (it's really not even that good).

And Denny's? Haha Denny's is grossssss - everything tastes like it was fried in a pot of 3 year old fat. We realize that we can get a quality breakfast that doesn't need to come form a chain? My breakfast place in Montreal is great - 6$ for a toasts, eggs, ham or bacon, coffee and hash-browns.... it's small - the food is made in front of you and it's a sweet place. Denny's have plastic seating (for easy cleaning), bitchy servers (because they have no stake in the business), and careless food (because no one really gives a shit what you're being served). Rant over.

[Copes]

One thing you see in the cities you mention Jane - Toronto and Montreal - that St. John's lacks, is food trucks. Not sure about your opinions on those, but I LOVE the idea of food trucks. For budding entrepreneurs, its a much cheaper way to start a business. On a urban level, it brings people to the streets, and they will likely go to a nearby bench / park to eat their food. For restaurants, it provides an excellent opportunity for some of the lesser known food types (Turkish, Israeli, etc.) to enter the market on the cheap. Given the population here, it would definitely be intimidating to try and dive into one of those niches, not knowing if the food would be a success or not. A food truck provides a much, much cheaper way to test the waters.

Plus, your restaurant is mobile, adding a whole bunch of catering options.

I want more food trucks. It's a shame Long Dicks and its struggle was so public. The more I read about it the more it seemed the guy was being incredibly difficult. But my guess is the city didn't do much to help matters. In reality though, after all that, I would be very surprised if there is a lineup of folks looking to open their own food truck in St. John's.

[Ayreonaut]

I would love a few food trucks around town. My god, if they set up shop by the INCO building at MUN (or Vale, whatever they're calling it these days) they'd slay. Calgary's trucks have been wildly successful since they've come in. Some aren't great but they'll die off; the good ones succeed. I love the variety that they can bring - perogies, smoked meat, grilled cheese, breakfast, braised beef, tacos, pho, and so on. And since they focus on very specific items, they can get more creative (duck and saskatoon berry perogies!). I love a nice sit-down restaurant, but street food is ideal for a nice summer day. Take your lunch to a park and chill on the grass or a bench. It's perfect.

[mrjanejacobs]

Actually Montreal doesn't really have food trucks. Until about 2 months ago, getting a permit for this was next to impossible. They have recently, however, changed the policies so that street food and food trucks can more easily be introduced into the City.

There are a few food trucks in St.John's, considering the size. And sure, I'm indifferent to food trucks. haha Food is food. I don't think there is that scary/large of a risk of trying to open up a lebanese, korean, turkish (etc.) restaurant in the City. Residents can be adventurous enough that, if good, they will return. And if it's cheap - the masses will come. Cheap eats are a scarcity in SJ. It's unfortunate this business model is so rarely considered in our City. The mindset is often, let's make our resto 'fancy' so that if someone wants to eat out, they have to pay a premium. Whereas other business models exist - serve more food to more people at cheap costs and you can make as much money as less food to fewer people at high costs. I digress...

I mean, try some lebanese Pita's in Montreal with garlic potatoes - I have never met someone who doesn't like it (no matter how unadventurous they are with food). We just have limited/zero lebanese community in SJ. haha

[Marty_Mcfly]

Food trucks are a beautiful thing. I'd love more variety in St. John's.

I'm still in love with the Philly Cheese steak I had in Manhattan. Why can't we have god-tier street meat like that?

[Ayreonaut]

It was pretty much impossible to operate trucks in Calgary too. Now they have to get a permit, then they can park all over downtown wherever they find spots. Most trucks move every day, so people use Twitter or sites like this to locate them before heading out for lunch. I believe there are 80 some trucks now, which is a far cry from some US cities (Portland has 400+).

[mrjanejacobs]

Ah that brings up a concern actually - is it really a positive thing that gas-guzzling machines will be chasing a restaurant across the City?

[Ayreonaut]

What? Very few people go out of their way - especially driving - to go to a specific truck. They check which ones are in their vicinity, then make their decision from there. Nobody drives to lunch in downtown Calgary, they all just walk or hop on the train (which is free downtown) to get to their destination.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

Ah that brings up a concern actually - is it really a positive thing that gas-guzzling machines will be chasing a restaurant across the City?

The economic impact, and ease of entry into the market, far exceeds the minor environmental impact a few trucks might have, IMO. Even if there were 50 in the city, I wouldn't be concerned about the impact much at all. By and large, I would say the added traffic on sidewalks, the potential to have more people seen eating on benches and in other public spaces, and the ability for a small business to cater is far more beneficial to the urban environment than the concern that there are a few (largely stationary if Ziggy's and long dicks is any indication) food trucks in the city.

[Marty_Mcfly]

A few trucks driving around is pretty negligible in comparison to the large amounts of traffic in the city on any given day.

Now, if everyone in the city switches to riding a bike to and from then it'd probably be more of a noticeable problem

[mrjanejacobs]

haha comment was talking more about Calgary - If a sprawled City had a bunch of moving restaurants (that people really want to eat at), then chasing them could become a problem. Not really a concern in SJ as we're so small so they can't really go that far anyway. haha

Bikes would certainly improve this concept, but that's a whole other bucket of beans.

It would be nice if food trucks could be stationed near public spaces, but on that note, we don't really have that many...

[Copes]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

It would be nice if food trucks could be stationed near public spaces, but on that note, we don't really have that many...

Yeah, you're right about that. Really, food trucks want to park themselves downtown, because there are no other neighbourhoods people tend to walk through. A real shame. I'm hoping this changes in the next ten - twenty years. Pleasantville is my only other hope, but it remains to be seen how the execution of that project will turn out. It would be nice if we had active, pedestrian friendly, packed sidewalks from Quidi Vidi to West End downtown. We need more than one urban neighbourhood. Having multiple areas where people are out and about has many benefits, one of them being more places for food trucks to want to park.

One of the neat things you see in much larger cities (I'm thinking New York here) are apps that track the locations of food trucks via GPS. It's a "smart city" concept that I really like, however in a city the size of St. John's, I don't think we'd have enough foodtrucks (or movement) to really NEED such an app. Still, it's an option, especially if food trucks in the city were to become more mobile than we currently see.

[Ayreonaut]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

haha comment was talking more about Calgary - If a sprawled City had a bunch of moving restaurants (that people really want to eat at), then chasing them could become a problem.

Um...

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

Very few people go out of their way - especially driving - to go to a specific truck. They check which ones are in their vicinity, then make their decision from there. Nobody drives to lunch in downtown Calgary, they all just walk or hop on the train (which is free downtown) to get to their destination.

Even real restaurants, most worth going to in Calgary are easily accessible by transit. I know you think Calgary exists as basically a massive suburb lacking any true form of urbanity, but as crazy as it may sound, there's more to the place than asphalt and vinyl siding.

As for public spaces, yeah I agree. Downtown and MUN (seasonally, probably) are the only places I can think of that would have the foot traffic to support a number of trucks. Aside from that, they often set up at special events like markets and other public gatherings. It's probably not all that easy to make a go of it seeing as start-up costs are a couple hundred thousand.

[cam477]

Interestingly, just yesterday I was listening to cbc radio and they were interviewing the women who opened Montreal’s very first food truck. It seems Montreal had similar laws and issues when it came to food trucks as St. John’s. I think food trucks in St. John’s got a terrible reputation because of Ziggy’s and Winkies. Food trucks certainly don’t have to be dirty and they can sell almost any variety of food you can think of, not just fries haha. I think as we see a couple more they will be better received.

I felt bad for those guys trying to set up their falafel truck a couple years ago. They ended up giving up because the city had them jumping through so many hoops. I’m glad to see Long Dick’s finally got it sorted with the city. I don’t normally eat hot dogs but those could be the best I’ve ever had.

I would agree with Mrjanejacobs regarding the lack of affordable quality food options in the city. But we do have some and we are getting better. Those guys who wanted to open the falafel truck now operate out of The Sprout after they close to cater to the late night crowds. As far as I know it’s only open on Fri and Sat, but not sure if that will change in the summer. It’s unfortunate it’s not open all day and every day though as it’s a great feed for under $10.

The Afghan restaurant is another place I only discovered last year (I know it’s been open for a few years). You can get a great meal there for about $10.

The new Sushi place in Atlantic Place is also really good and affordable.

We do also have a number of options for sandwiches that are no more expensive than subway. You can get a great lunch at Rocket for the same price as you’d pay at Subway. Actually, there are a lot of decent sandwich spots in the city. I don’t think I’ve meet anyone who hasn’t enjoyed Manna.

But, IMO, the best spot for a fantastic cheap feed in the city is the Farmers Market. I go every Saturday and there’s nothing like starting off your day with some Indian or Middle Eastern food for breakfast (especially if you’re hungover haha). But there’s other more traditional breakfast options there as well, like waffles if you can’t stomach curry first thing in the morning haha.

I’d love to see our city invest in a daily Farmer’s market. The market in Saint John is pretty good and I think it’s open every day in the summer months.

[Robg]

I love going to Mana for a soup and sandwich but it is so expensive, where is the farmer's market to?