Destination V [555, ch Vanier, Aylmer] | U/C

[jt-mtl]

after years of NIMBYs fighting this, construction has already begun, the new street Seto has been paved with the stoplights setup and a couple of buildings structures are up and should be ready for Spring.

It is a great example of mixing residential and commercial plazas together:


https://en.destination-v.ca/

So happy to see this take shape

[jt-mtl]

Here is an overview shot of Destination V:

[J.OT13]

Looks like another big box store development to me, just with a couple residential buildings in the back. This is in no way a major shift from what we've seen over the last 20 years.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

great example of mixing residential and commercial plazas together:

But, I mean, is it tho

[GeoNerd]

This is horrible. Big slab buildings surrounded by strip malls, a sea of surface parking, and zero useable green space. A low quality, car-centric design, circa 1983.

[Acajack]

This development was actually quite controversial, and held up by the city as an example of what it shouldn't be doing in the future in terms of urbanism. There were also concerns about traffic (justified IMO as it's already pretty bad in the area).

In the end it was approved because I believe the city exhausted all its options to block it given that the project was compliant with all of the rules in place.

But the city also said this would be the last time something like this gets approved, and is moving to change the rules.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by GeoNerd

This is horrible. Big slab buildings surrounded by strip malls, a sea of surface parking, and zero useable green space. A low quality, car-centric design, circa 1983.

Even 1983 was better than that. Those were the later days of the strip mall, a decently superior concept.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

But, I mean, is it tho

That's like saying the Smart Centre on Boulevard du Plateau is far better now that it includes a massive retirement residence. The place is just as hostile to pedestrians as ever.

[Acajack]

Another problem with this is that it will cannabalize business away from the nice neo-urban centre they are trying to get off the ground in the Plateau, just a few km further east.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's like saying the Smart Centre on Boulevard du Plateau is far better now that it includes a massive retirement residence. The place is just as hostile to pedestrians as ever.

Or placing baking powder, flour, eggs, and milk beside each other on a counter and calling it a great birthday cake

[OTownandDown]

LOL, you can't possibly be marketing this as a mixed-use development that is anything different that suburbia everywhere.

It is literally an extension of the box stores on the one side, and a couple of suburban apartment buildings overlooking the large area of lobster-trap style, hair pulling parking.

Oh, it's a walkable neighbourhood, because the apartment dwellers and dense townhouse townies adjacent can walk across the parking lot to their favourite OrangeTheory and Starbucks.

It actually took me a minute to figure out where this is, because I thought someone was cross-posting from the other end of du Plateau development centering around the Cafe Dough Co.

Is the goal to turn the gap between Alumettieres and du Plateau into a mix of high-density apartment buildings with box stores adjacent? Because cudos for successfully reaching that goal.

Maybe people can finally stop jamming the Vanier Parkway on the way to the Trainyards.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another problem with this is that it will cannabalize business away from the nice neo-urban centre they are trying to get off the ground in the Plateau, just a few km further east.

Hopefully, businesses can see the value of establishing themselves in people places like AGORA instead of this typical suburban parking lot.

I'm glad the City of Gatineau is taking a stand against these types of developments. It's appalling that the City of Ottawa continues to embrace such terrible proposals while simultaneously pretending to embrace the 15 minute neighborhood.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Or placing baking powder, flour, eggs, and milk beside each other on a counter and calling it a great birthday cake

Great analogy

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by GeoNerd

This is horrible. Big slab buildings surrounded by strip malls, a sea of surface parking, and zero useable green space. A low quality, car-centric design, circa 1983.

If you want greenspace, Boucher forest is across the street and Gatineau Park up on Vanier. That's the problem with NIMBYs, always want a greenspace and library built in new developments.

If you know the area, this new area will serve the surrounding area which has been lacking stores and amenities.

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's like saying the Smart Centre on Boulevard du Plateau is far better now that it includes a massive retirement residence. The place is just as hostile to pedestrians as ever.

Look at the Smart Centres in Ottawa - Name on that incorporates residential areas. This is a good first step to incorporate both. Plus if you know the area, it is full with with triplexes and multi-dwelling buildings and will only serve those who can walk to this area instead of driving.

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

LOL, you can't possibly be marketing this as a mixed-use development that is anything different that suburbia everywhere.

It is literally an extension of the box stores on the one side, and a couple of suburban apartment buildings overlooking the large area of lobster-trap style, hair pulling parking.

Oh, it's a walkable neighbourhood, because the apartment dwellers and dense townhouse townies adjacent can walk across the parking lot to their favourite OrangeTheory and Starbucks.

It actually took me a minute to figure out where this is, because I thought someone was cross-posting from the other end of du Plateau development centering around the Cafe Dough Co.

Is the goal to turn the gap between Alumettieres and du Plateau into a mix of high-density apartment buildings with box stores adjacent? Because cudos for successfully reaching that goal.

Maybe people can finally stop jamming the Vanier Parkway on the way to the Trainyards.

Hopefully this will reduce people from leaving Aylmer and bring in more options to shop and eat locally. It is only a positive to bring more options to Aylmer and I applaud the direction to incorporate residential for people to walk to these new places. As much as Ottawa wants to be a walkable city, face it, the reality is it is a car-dependant city. Name the closest current existing residential unit to the Trainyards? it is all city dependant

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

If you want greenspace, Boucher forest is across the street and Gatineau Park up on Vanier. That's the problem with NIMBYs, always want a greenspace and library built in new developments.

If you know the area, this new area will serve the surrounding area which has been lacking stores and amenities.

Exactly. There is nothing special about this lot at all and like you said, the massive Boucher Forest is right there. The trees that were on this lot... Well there were once trees on every lot in the Plateau and Gatineau and Ottawa. Everyone in my neighbourhood is bitching about these new stores as it they are something extraordinary. It's just an extension of a small box style mall in a perfect place for a medium box style mall. I, for one, am looking forward to the new retail in this spot just down the street.

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Exactly. There is nothing special about this lot at all and like you said, the massive Boucher Forest is right there. The trees that were on this lot... Well there were once trees on every lot in the Plateau and Gatineau and Ottawa. Everyone in my neighbourhood is bitching about these new stores as it they are something extraordinary. It's just an extension of a small box style mall in a perfect place for a medium box style mall. I, for one, am looking forward to the new retail in this spot just down the street.

Keep in mind, the unigym is supposed to be there as well. So though it is not a dedicated sports centre like in Gatineau, it is going to serve the community. And I am hoping there will be more food options for smaller businesses, like Cafe Dough in the Plateau and/or bars/restaurants the folks in the area don't have to drive to, but can walk home from.

[GeoNerd]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

If you want greenspace, Boucher forest is across the street and Gatineau Park up on Vanier. That's the problem with NIMBYs, always want a greenspace and library built in new developments.

Listen, you can't just go around calling anyone who opposes this absolute dog sh*t of a development a NIMBY. I do not live anywhere close to this suburban wasteland. It is impossible for me to be a nimby. I have no dog in this fight. It is just a really, really, terrible design. It's like you have no comprehension of good urban planning or urban design at all. A forest across the street is not useable green space, and Gatineau Park is almost 10km away. Where are the children in this development supposed to play? The dumpster behind the dollar store? You have to leave the site to find any sort of enjoyment at all.

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

Look at the Smart Centres in Ottawa - Name on that incorporates residential areas. This is a good first step to incorporate both. Plus if you know the area, it is full with with triplexes and multi-dwelling buildings and will only serve those who can walk to this area instead of driving.

The mentality of "Ottawa has allowed some horrible developments, why can't Gatineau?" is not justifiable. This is honestly one of the worst development proposals I've ever seen. I can understand why it was adamantly opposed.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

Look at the Smart Centres in Ottawa - Name on that incorporates residential areas. This is a good first step to incorporate both. Plus if you know the area, it is full with with triplexes and multi-dwelling buildings and will only serve those who can walk to this area instead of driving.

It's an slight improvement over the standard big box/medium box complex, but not a revelation in any way. Yes, it has more paths for pedestrians, a few more trees and residential in the back, but at the end of the day, it's still a car oriented parking lot with inward facing retail.

There are plans for residential at Train Yards. It won't in anyway make Train Yards a better big box store development.

I agree with GeoNerd; no use in comparing yourself with the worst example. We see a lot of that in Canada, comparing ourselves to the shit-show in the U.S. when really, we should look to more progressive countries for inspiration.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

Look at the Smart Centres in Ottawa - Name on that incorporates residential areas. This is a good first step to incorporate both. Plus if you know the area, it is full with with triplexes and multi-dwelling buildings and will only serve those who can walk to this area instead of driving.

How exactly is this a good first step to anything? That suggest that this can be incrementally improved, which is not the case. The only way that this can move towards a decent design would be to tear down all of the retail and start over with something that isn't oriented towards a large parking lot.