Winnipeg Retail

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by cllew

As both East Side Mario's and Milestone are owned by Recipe Unlimited (Nee Cara Foods) I wonder why they can't find operators in the Winnipeg Market.

From the Milestones conversation, I think their expectation is the local operator puts a lot of money out of pocket to build the place upfront and then pays fairly high franchise fees while having things like menu, ingredients and prices set by Recipes Unlimited. Basically they come after the margins from every angle making it a tough go. Toss in that their brands lack the name recognition locally to really pull in traffic. The issues are deeper than just Milestones and East Side Mario's as well. Swiss Chalet is a prime example where there has been near zero movement on that front locally for about 30+ years. Harvey's is another on that seems to come and go. Also anyone remember Kelsey's?

Short form -- there are better opportunities elsewhere for local operators.

Originally Posted by cheswick

There's a dearth of sit down restarants in the area of GC. Hopefully something other than ther two quick service entries mentioned is coming.

That is definitely not the case. The issue with the GC area is there is a lack of national brand chain sit down restaurants. There are lots of quality mom and pop style places in the area with a variety that is hard to find anywhere else in the city.

[Bluenote]

Any idea on what's the plan for the old Sears in St Vital. They have been doing some serious roof work, guessing skylights and they have put in a new HVAC.

Also they have removed all the old Eatons 1979 store fronts. And beside them have been cutting huge openings into the brick facade. And they are not just cut to throw junk out. They look very positioned and measured to what looks like glass. As they are about 5 feet from ground lvl and at least 15 x 8 feet in size if not larger.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Any idea on what's the plan for the old Sears in St Vital. They have been doing some serious roof work, guessing skylights and they have put in a new HVAC.

Also they have removed all the old Eatons 1979 store fronts. And beside them have been cutting huge openings into the brick facade. And they are not just cut to throw junk out. They look very positioned and measured to what looks like glass. As they are about 5 feet from ground lvl and at least 15 x 8 feet in size if not larger.

GoodLife has been confirmed so far.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

GoodLife has been confirmed so far.

That I know. But that's two massive floors to fill and I do not think St Vital center would just throw in GoodLife and call it a day. I imagine one floor, probably the main will be made into more stores to extend the mall itself. What would be great is if they either took the old Moxie's entrance of LONDON drugs and wrapped it around to join one of the old Sears entrances like they did when Safeway moved out. They created an area I. The mall with no dead ends. If they did that to both entrances the east and west you essentially could walk from Walmart to London drugs through a new section of the mall. Then build the north entrance as the main mall entrance with the usual wooden beam style they have used on all the others.

Pretty sure GoodLife would be on the second floor. Hence the skylights being installed..

[Wpg_Guy]

There was also an announcement of Winners/Home Sense and the city’s 3rd H&M location. In terms of the mall layout nothing has been publicly revealed.

[CoryB]

The problem with expanding the interior space of St Vital mall is two fold. The loss of parking would push it near/under what is allowed for its current space. Also the added space would not have to needed additional parking. At this point the only real way St Vital can expand further is to add a multi-level parking structure.

[cheswick]

Noticed a Chatr kiosk opened in Portage Place. The one thing PP doesn't lack is wireless carriers.

Chatr is owned by Rogers I believe. As is Fido. Both those also operate out of the mall. Not sure the brand differention between Chatr and Fido.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The problem with expanding the interior space of St Vital mall is two fold. The loss of parking would push it near/under what is allowed for its current space. Also the added space would not have to needed additional parking. At this point the only real way St Vital can expand further is to add a multi-level parking structure.

Loss of parking, by carving up the Inside of Sears main floor doesn't do anything to parking.
Second the London Drugs entrance is about 100 feet from the Sears entrance and they share a common wall and sidewalk. You'd loose almost nothing.
The other entrance doesn't have to go where the east Sears entrance is. It can come right off the loading docks which are right in the corner of Sears and the Mall itself. That corner has never had parking as it was sanctioned off for the loading dock which isn't needed at all anymore. Hence you can easily in front of the old Moxie's follow the mall wall right to the loading dock doors and no one would ever notice as you cannot even idle your vehicle In that vast areA.

The mall has an abundance of parking on the north and north east sides. The Walmart lot is half used and usually is saved for people in motorhomes parking. And for a huge snow pile.

I been going to that mall since 1979 and have lived in St Vital the entire time. I know it's parking patterns well.

The point is that the owners of St Vital centre are not stupid. They have always kept this Mall at the forefront of the Malls in Winnipeg. And are always updating it. You hardly ever see a boarded up store. Rents are at a premium.

I have never understood why people believe Polo is the place to go. It's like a Portage place with a little better management. They have removed so much that made it unique and made it just a basic two story mall. IMO St Vital has always been the classier Mall.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I have never understood why people believe Polo is the place to go. It's like a Portage place with a little better management. They have removed so much that made it unique and made it just a basic two story mall. IMO St Vital has always been the classier Mall.

The complete and utter lack of clothing options for men might be a big reason. At St. Vital, you've got RW&Co., The Bay, Wal-Mart, West 49 (teenagers), Jets Gear, Tip-Top Tailors, Le Chateau and some other store that sells snowmobile-branded stuff.

At Polo Park, you've got all that plus H&M, The Gap, Forever 21, Banana Republic, Indochino, Harry Rosen, Urban Outfitters, and LuLu Lemon.

Not to mention other "premium" stores like the Lego Store, Apple Store, Anthropologie, and Fossil. Given this, it's easy to see why St. Vital has become second to Polo Park.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, Polo Park (plus the immediate surrounding area) has a critical mass that I don't think St. Vital will match...at least not anytime soon. I don't find St. Vital to feel in any way classier or more upscale than Polo Park either... I find them generally comparable, except that St. Vital is just the smaller of the two.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Loss of parking, by carving up the Inside of Sears
main floor doesn't do anything to parking. 4

It isn't so much about the potential "loss" of parking but that adding additional occupied indoor space means they likely need to add more parking due to the city zoning laws. No added parking means they don't approval for the addition to connect the exterior doors as was suggested, regardless if they are realigned slightly.

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I have never understood why people believe Polo is the place to go. It's like a Portage place with a little better management. They have removed so much that made it unique and made it just a basic two story mall. IMO St Vital has always been the classier Mall.

Polo is owned by CF. CF owns the top malls in country, not just Winnipeg. When they administered Portage Place as well it was fairly public at the time that they were telling retailers that if you want in Polo Park (which was well ahead of St Vital at the time) you need to be in Portage Place. They are likely continuing that same strategy but with Chinook Centre, Pacific Centre, Eaton Centre, etc being in the "Polo" position of old and "Polo" is obviously in the old Portage Place position in that arrangement.

Cushman & Wakefield, the current operator of St Vital, fails to even have a single mall place in the top 20 malls in Canada.

[bomberjet]

Portage Place is not even close to Polo Park.

[CoryB]

^^ You are missing the point.

It doesn't matter if they have similar markets, etc.

CF says if you want into its top tier properties you need to take up a vacancy in a lower tier one first. Only mentioned Portage Place as they used to do it local with both Portage Ave malls. They exited Portage Place in their bankruptcy though.

[bomberjet]

That's fine. I was referring to Bluenotes comment that Polo is Portage Place with slightly better management. Like, no. Not even close.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

The point is that the owners of St Vital centre are not stupid. They have always kept this Mall at the forefront of the Malls in Winnipeg. And are always updating it. You hardly ever see a boarded up store. Rents are at a premium.

I have never understood why people believe Polo is the place to go. It's like a Portage place with a little better management. They have removed so much that made it unique and made it just a basic two story mall. IMO St Vital has always been the classier Mall.

It's shitty too, because Cadillac Fairview turned Chinook Centre in Calgary into a palace, only to rip its heart out... just like it intended with Portage Place, and what it's currently doing with Polo Park. I agree fully, St. Vital as a whole, has alot more heart and class to it, than modern Polo Park. After the 2000s renos, Polo Park is still in business and all, but it feels like I'm playing the Sims whenever I walk in there... it has no soul left, and the second that Santa display gets tossed, it's cultural value will be on life support. Guaranteed.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

The complete and utter lack of clothing options for men might be a big reason. At St. Vital, you've got RW&Co., The Bay, Wal-Mart, West 49 (teenagers), Jets Gear, Tip-Top Tailors, Le Chateau and some other store that sells snowmobile-branded stuff.

At Polo Park, you've got all that plus H&M, The Gap, Forever 21, Banana Republic, Indochino, Harry Rosen, Urban Outfitters, and LuLu Lemon.

Not to mention other "premium" stores like the Lego Store, Apple Store, Anthropologie, and Fossil. Given this, it's easy to see why St. Vital has become second to Polo Park.

Question though: okay, so for a city of Winnipeg with 800,000+ within its CMA, why isn't London Drugs more thoroughly entrenched within Winnipeg? Because compared to Shoppers and Rexall, it could be considered a premium store, yet St Vital happens to have the only one in Winnipeg. I'm curious, because Polo obviously has Shoppers and Apple, but no superstore-esque hits under its roof. Same thing I've noticed with Cadillac Fairview in Calgary.

Do they just not like the Sears and the Bays anymore? Or is there another reason why St. Vital can somehow land one singular store of a nation-wide chain in a large Canadian city without the brand otherwise, while Polo somehow can't land a London Drugs within its vast confines? Just seems off.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It isn't so much about the potential "loss" of parking but that adding additional occupied indoor space means they likely need to add more parking due to the city zoning laws. No added parking means they don't approval for the addition to connect the exterior doors as was suggested, regardless if they are realigned slightly.



Polo is owned by CF. CF owns the top malls in country, not just Winnipeg. When they administered Portage Place as well it was fairly public at the time that they were telling retailers that if you want in Polo Park (which was well ahead of St Vital at the time) you need to be in Portage Place. They are likely continuing that same strategy but with Chinook Centre, Pacific Centre, Eaton Centre, etc being in the "Polo" position of old and "Polo" is obviously in the old Portage Place position in that arrangement.

Cushman & Wakefield, the current operator of St Vital, fails to even have a single mall place in the top 20 malls in Canada.

Just to clarify, St Vital Centre is owned by Ontario Pension Board and managed by Cushman & Wakefield.

[buzzg]

St. Vital is so dumpy, I can’t believe someone thinks of it as classier than Polo. Its stores seem to always be a generation behind their designs in Polo and other top tier malls in Canada. Seems like a constant state of blowouts. Food Court is terrible. They don’t have ANY premium stores like Polo does. You can’t even compare them. The outlet mall feels “classier” than St. Vital - especially in terms of premium brands and the food court.

This sounds like bias of someone who grew up going to St. Vital, not reality.

[laumag]

Originally Posted by buzzg

St. Vital is so dumpy, I can’t believe someone thinks of it as classier than Polo. Its stores seem to always be a generation behind their designs in Polo and other top tier malls in Canada. Seems like a constant state of blowouts. Food Court is terrible. They don’t have ANY premium stores like Polo does. You can’t even compare them. The outlet mall feels “classier” than St. Vital - especially in terms of premium brands and the food court.

This sounds like bias of someone who grew up going to St. Vital, not reality.

I agree. My husband and I drove across Winnipeg to attend the Children's Hospital Book Sale at St. Vital Centre yesterday. The stores are same old same old except for Oomomo. I liked looking at all the Japanese Made stuff. I bought 4 books and it took us forever to drive home in the pouring rain. I would not make another special trip to St. Vital Centre. I prefer Polo Park.

[LilZebra]

Shoenet = Shoes + Internet posted a Closing sign on their Portage Ave. storefront. They've been there since th 1990s soon after the World Wide Web became mainstream.