AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Komeht

Overly burdensome regulations is the reason we can't have nice things in Austin.

http://bikefriendlyoc.org/2011/06/09...-on-june-26th/

Seriously, we would protect an ugly "any-where-usa-road" over a beautiful blvd because of some view on a capital? Insane.

[KevinFromTexas]

I do like the open feel of Congress for the views of the city, but not the wide street itself. I wish there was a way to combine a cozy pedestrian friendly feel while keeping it open and offering views of the city.

That photo Komeht posted looked too cramped and stuffy for my tastes.

Also light rail should still be built on South Congress, and that would be tricky with a tree canopy.

Anyway, few people actually do 30+ mph on Congress anyway. I usually am able to easily keep up with car traffic on my bicycle on South Congress.

[The ATX]

Yes, eventually there should be light rail going up the middle of the street, so the space will be needed for that.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I do like the open feel of Congress for the views of the city, but not the wide street itself. I wish there was a way to combine a cozy pedestrian friendly feel while keeping it open and offering views of the city.

That photo Komeht posted looked too cramped and stuffy for my tastes.

Also light rail should still be built on South Congress, and that would be tricky with a tree canopy.

Anyway, few people actually do 30+ mph on Congress anyway. I usually am able to easily keep up with car traffic on my bicycle on South Congress.

Las Ramblas is one of the most graceful avenues in the world. Having something of its calibre alone would instantly elevate the status of Austin and we'd be fortunate to get anywhere close. As for the comment about cramped, perhaps that angle was deceiving but I can assure you the center walkway is plenty wide, wide enough for the seating for entire cafes.



We fall into this trap of protecting the not very good status quo when we can reach for so much more. South Congress in my eye is something of an eyesore at 1/2 a football field wide of traffic. View of the Capitol? Meh. I'll take a great street any day of the week over that. Of course there's absolutely no reason you can't do both.

Signing congress to 30 MPH doesn't change anything about it.

[the Genral]

When they bury I35, this should go on top of it.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by the Genral

When they bury I35, this should go on top of it.

Wish they would - but SBs proposal shows it to be a 6 lanes high speed divided road. . .nothing like Las Ramblas

[audiomuse]

I have been to Barcelona and can personally attest to the brilliance of Las Ramblas. I really like Komeht's idea of implementing the same thing along South Congress. Unfortunately, our city is still extremely car-dependent and so taking away lanes of traffic like that would be extremely controversial. There would be public outcry no doubt. All the whiny commuters would complain about the traffic they'll have to deal with when commuting to work (knowing full well they're contributing to it)

[electricron]

The pedestrian street mall length of Las Ramblas in Barcelona is less than one mile in length, equivalent to the distances of Congress Street from the Texas State Capitol to the Lake, or the Speedway through the University of Texas.

South Congress is multiple times longer than either. It's a feeder street into downtown Austin from the south, while Las Ramblas isn't even a feeder street.

Barcelona's main train station sits just off Las Ramblas, something Austin lacks an equivalent completely.

Las Ramblas lies within Barcelona's old city center where pedestrian traffic was the norm when it was built hundreds of years ago. Few American cities have old city centers within stone city walls designed for horses, carts, and pedestrian traffic. South Congress south of the lake isn't even in downtown Austin, much less a city center surrounded by walls.

[MightyYoda]

I do think this could be done from the capital to the lake or something similar to 16th St in Denver. I have been to both these streets and while 16th street is not as good, its still nice and would be an improvement over Congress and is more applicable to our current situation. Biggest problem with Denver's were the free buses whizzing by though all other traffic was blocked. Side roads continued including rail. I do think taking Rail up South Congress with a station near AAS site and veering left to Lamar and right to Red River or whatever the bridge would go to wouldn't be bad. You would have the commuter rail, urban rail, and eventually LS Rail with stations near by. I think when urban rail is implemented, we can make Congress north of the river purely pedestrian. I do agree that keeping South Congress as is with urban rail down the middle is probably best. It allows inner Austin to easily bring people to downtown where we can continue to improve the pedestrian environment.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by electricron

The pedestrian street mall length of Las Ramblas in Barcelona is less than one mile in length, equivalent to the distances of Congress Street from the Texas State Capitol to the Lake, or the Speedway through the University of Texas.

South Congress is multiple times longer than either. It's a feeder street into downtown Austin from the south, while Las Ramblas isn't even a feeder street.

Barcelona's main train station sits just off Las Ramblas, something Austin lacks an equivalent completely.

Las Ramblas lies within Barcelona's old city center where pedestrian traffic was the norm when it was built hundreds of years ago. Few American cities have old city centers within stone city walls designed for horses, carts, and pedestrian traffic.

1. Of course the entire length of Congress wouldn't be converted this way - that's absurd and fairly absurd that you would make this point. A distance of about a mile would be between Live Oak and Riverside - plenty of room for a wonderful zone of city urbanism with enough of a core to get it started.

2. There may not be rail there now - but soon. And when one plans cities one doesn't plan for this year or next, but this hundred years and the next.

3. If we don't start building for people now and stop building exclusively for cars then a 100 years from now we'll still have cities still built exclusively for cars and not for people.

American auto-central sprawling cities are the aberration. The norm across the world is entirely different and altogether better.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Komeht

1. Of course the entire length of Congress wouldn't be converted this way - that's absurd and fairly absurd that you would make this point. A distance of about a mile would be between Live Oak and Riverside - plenty of room for a wonderful zone of city urbanism with enough of a core to get it started.

American auto-central sprawling cities are the aberration. The norm across the world is entirely different and altogether better.

Seriously, are you proposing to move downtown Austin to the south side of the Lake?
Even in extremely large New York City, rivers separate Manhattan from the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn, Those rivers have prevented growth of skyscrapers across them successfully for over 100 years. Don't expect 50 story skyscrapers south of the Lake in Austin for scores of years far into the future!

Pedestrian malls aren't always successful. Check out the success of the Main Street project in Memphis. It has NOT been that great at attracting new developments as many of you suggest, and it's been in existence nearly 50 years - plenty of time for developments to rise.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by electricron

Seriously, are you proposing to move downtown Austin to the south side of the Lake?
Even in extremely large New York City, rivers separate Manhattan from the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn, Those rivers have prevented growth of skyscrapers across them successfully for over 100 years. Don't expect 50 story skyscrapers south of the Lake in Austin for scores of years far into the future!

Pedestrian malls aren't always successful. Check out the success of the Main Street project in Memphis. It has NOT been that great at attracting new developments as many of you suggest, and it's been in existence nearly 50 years - plenty of time for developments to rise.

Those rivers/bodies of water are much larger.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by electricron

Seriously, are you proposing to move downtown Austin to the south side of the Lake?
Even in extremely large New York City, rivers separate Manhattan from the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn, Those rivers have prevented growth of skyscrapers across them successfully for over 100 years. Don't expect 50 story skyscrapers south of the Lake in Austin for scores of years far into the future!

Pedestrian malls aren't always successful. Check out the success of the Main Street project in Memphis. It has NOT been that great at attracting new developments as many of you suggest, and it's been in existence nearly 50 years - plenty of time for developments to rise.

1. Stop spinning. No one is proposing moving downtown to south side. There is not a single sky scraper along Las Ramblas. Not a single one.



Lots of four and five story buildings though - exactly think kind of thing we should be doing along a street like Congress.

2. I'm not proposing a pedestrian mall. I'm proposing a complete and complex street built on a human scale for the humans that inhabit it that allows for pedestrians, cyclists, motorists, transit, artists, tourists, spectators, cafes, street performers, etc. etc.

There is an immense amount of ROW on S. Congress, 90% devoted to single occupied cars - that's an absurdity that should be changed.

[The ATX]

I'm interested in how all those who are so passionate about Austin's mass transit future feel about this ABJ article:

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/bl...illion-to.html

[lzppjb]

When numbers like this come out, I always take them with a grain of salt. They are usually a bit of a pie in the sky type outlook.

[KevinFromTexas]

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/bl....html?page=all

Aug 30, 2013, 12:38pm CDT
Urban rail's economic impact potential: $31 billion

Robert Grattan
Staff Writer-
Austin Business Journal

A fully built urban rail system running through Austin could bring as much as $31 billion in economic impact to the city by 2030, according to a new economic analysis.

In addition, an urban rail system – functioning as a segment of a larger mass transit system – is projected to save 25,000 daily trips from 12,500 commuters. Combined with city-wide bike infrastructure, the study projects that Austinites could save $296 million in commuting costs. That money is expected to be invested in the local economy and to create 2,300 new jobs.

[audiomuse]

I would love to see a pedestrian/bike only street in Austin.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by electricron

Seriously, are you proposing to move downtown Austin to the south side of the Lake?
Even in extremely large New York City, rivers separate Manhattan from the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn, Those rivers have prevented growth of skyscrapers across them successfully for over 100 years. Don't expect 50 story skyscrapers south of the Lake in Austin for scores of years far into the future!

Pedestrian malls aren't always successful. Check out the success of the Main Street project in Memphis. It has NOT been that great at attracting new developments as many of you suggest, and it's been in existence nearly 50 years - plenty of time for developments to rise.

Memphis is a pretty horrible example of a failed pedestrian mall. Except for Beale Street, their downtown is pretty much dead.

[jtown,man]

I'll have to disagree about the Memphis comments. Coming from an area of Arkansas close to Memphis, I spent many many days and nights in Memphis. If you are going to compare slow-growing Memphis to a place like fast growing Austin, yes it will fall short. However, Main St in Memphis is highly used by residents and people from afar alike. I was recently there on a Sunday and the area had plenty of people all over, the trolley had too many people on it for me(I was sweating terribly). It was quite lively(for a Sunday of course).

That brings me to another point, how did Memphis get a decently large trolley system while Austin hasn't. Memphis is broke and barely growing.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

That brings me to another point, how did Memphis get a decently large trolley system while Austin hasn't. Memphis is broke and barely growing.

The Memphis trolleys connect their Amtrak Station to their Main Street street mall, about 1.8 miles in distance. It uses modern heritage trolleys. Much like the MATA in Dallas, they using old tracks buried under newer asphalt for many decades. It's not like they laid brand new tracks and spent years reconstructing it.