Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Nothing about someone setting fire to the Pier in New Westmister has anything to do with the DTES, unless you can prove it does. The man arrested hasn't been charged. There's nothing published that I've seen that links him to Vancouver, or the DTES.

You accuse both Sheba and me of 'sugarcoating' the situation. That's rubbish. I've never failed to acknowledge the problems of the DTES - I live in it. I just don't think locking up everybody I see on the street until they're ready to be pizza delivery drivers is likely to be a solution to the problems here.

Maybe you should read a bit more about the area - like Dr. Gabor Maté for example. "'I've never met a single person who ever chose to be a drug addict".

Actually, sugarcoating might not be a bad approach to your increasingly bitter comments.

One of the main reasons why crime is getting worse in DTES and downtown is because of how slack our enforcement has become, and it is not only a Vancouver problem, but province-wide. That's the parallel I was trying to draw. I never said the arsonist has anything to do with DTES, but the way he was arrested and let go, while police is recommending charges, is truly dumb. If there is no proof that he or she is indeed the arsonist, how can crown prosecutors recommend charges? Please think, and yes, stop sugarcoating everything.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I find it rather funny that he completely misses the humour in a few people's posts and views it as some kind of attack, along with the usual 'how dare we be blind to what's happening'. Then again we've had over two dozen pages of him complaining about how bad the DTES is without offering any useful suggestions (I agree - lock them all up and force them to detox isn't a solution).

Treat what I said as humour too, please.

[SeymourDrake]

If the DTES is such a hot spot, why have none of the first responders been infected on a somewhat elevated scale? Compare that areas number to other areas of the city.

Has anyone seen any stats that compare those infected? Within those numbers how many wore a mask?

To think only those in the DTES have compromised immune systems is also laughable.

Detailed information is not being shared because it would cause mass hysteria.

What's next a compromised food chain?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SeymourDrake

If the DTES is such a hot spot, why have none of the first responders been infected on a somewhat elevated scale? Compare that areas number to other areas of the city.

Has anyone seen any stats that compare those infected? Within those numbers how many wore a mask?

To think only those in the DTES have compromised immune systems is also laughable.

Detailed information is not being shared because it would cause mass hysteria.

What's next a compromised food chain?

They are extra careful when treating DTES folks. Been like that since the universe first existed. Heard of being jabbed with needles or tainted with HIV positive blood?

[MIPS]

Additional procedures regarding physical contact were added early on in the fentanyl crisis due to how toxic the drug is.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Additional procedures regarding physical contact were added early on in the fentanyl crisis due to how toxic the drug is.

There are many examples of police overdosing when they come into contact with fentanyl unexpectedly, especially in the US. There was one in San Francisco last week. I don't recall any here. They added additional ppe when covid became an issue.

[MIPS]

Well then what do I know?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Well then what do I know?

Sorry, I wasn't intending to contradict you. I think our first responders seem to have been more aware of the problem in dealing with fentanyl, while other places aren't as prepared, so we don't appear to have had an incident like San Francisco. Maybe we've been lucky. I've seen more ppe being used by ambulance crews working in the DTES in recent months, but it seems a bit more hit and miss with police - although there aren't many precautions they can take. Wearing masks doesn't really protect them, except if one of them happens to have covid. It potentially protects anyone they come in contact with, should they have the virus.

[MIPS]

We are missing data. Statistically COVID because of how it spreads should be rampant and extremely visible in the DTES (be it reported/visible illness or an abnormally high mortality rate) given the nature of the high population in COVID's most affected age group outside of the elderly, unsanitary conditions and no distancing....but it isn't, or at least the cases are more mild or more asymptomatic but that makes no sense either.
I have no reason to doubt it's over there but we have yet to figure out why it's seemingly so transparent.

[Sheba]

COVID-19 antibody testing finds 'significant' number of cases in Downtown Eastside

Since the earliest days of the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a heightened level of concern for what might happen to residents of Vancouver's Downtown Eastside if the neighbourhood was exposed to an outbreak of the disease.

Many of the members of the community live with limited resources, and poverty, drug use and other issues have left a trail of underlying health conditions.

Yet, while more than 8,200 British Columbians — nearly 3,000 of them within the Vancouver Coastal Health region — have tested positive for the virus, the Downtown Eastside appears to have avoided a major outbreak.

But now, according to the Vancouver Infectious Disease Centre (VIDC) — an independent nonprofit that provides clinical services, research and outreach on infectious diseases in the Downtown Eastside — it's clear that the neighbourhood hasn't been spared.

Bloodwork from area residents taken by the VIDC and sent to the B.C. Centre for Disease Control (BCCDC) for testing indicate that many have had the disease, VIDC medical director Dr. Brian Conway says.

"Our preliminary results suggest that a significant number of residents of the Downtown Eastside carry antibodies to COVID-19, indicating that they were infected at some point," Conway said.

Conway launched a series of free community "pop-up clinics" to test blood for telltale coronavirus antibodies among Downtown Eastside DTES residents over the summer. The clinics were approved by Health Canada and staffed and funded by the VIDC, he said.

Of the few hundred residents Conway's team tested, a couple of dozen have the antibodies, he said. There appears to be high levels of infection, at least in shelter environments where there is limited ability to maintain physical distancing, he added.

Conway's work is progressing to the contact tracing phase on Tuesday, as he and his team begin to meet with some of the people who tested positive to try to determine how they experienced the disease, when they had it, where they were, and to whom they might have transmitted COVID-19.

...

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by MIPS

We are missing data. Statistically COVID because of how it spreads should be rampant and extremely visible in the DTES (be it reported/visible illness or an abnormally high mortality rate) given the nature of the high population in COVID's most affected age group outside of the elderly, unsanitary conditions and no distancing....but it isn't, or at least the cases are more mild or more asymptomatic but that makes no sense either.
I have no reason to doubt it's over there but we have yet to figure out why it's seemingly so transparent.

The thing that might offset that is that there aren't many seniors in that community in the DTES. People don't tend to last into their 70s/80s when they're addicted and homeless.

You might not get that many anomalous hospitalizations out of a group that is younger and generally frequently hospitalized regardless of COVID.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

The thing that might offset that is that there aren't many seniors in that community in the DTES. People don't tend to last into their 70s/80s when they're addicted and homeless.

You might not get that many anomalous hospitalizations out of a group that is younger and generally frequently hospitalized regardless of COVID.

Plus you see a lot more underweight people on the streets than overweight, Covid has hit communities with higher rates of obesity hardest.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by MIPS

We are missing data. Statistically COVID because of how it spreads should be rampant and extremely visible in the DTES (be it reported/visible illness or an abnormally high mortality rate) given the nature of the high population in COVID's most affected age group outside of the elderly, unsanitary conditions and no distancing....but it isn't, or at least the cases are more mild or more asymptomatic but that makes no sense either.
I have no reason to doubt it's over there but we have yet to figure out why it's seemingly so transparent.

Streetpeople probably have developed very strong immune systems due to exposure to everything under the sun.
i.e. let your kids eat dirt, don't shelter them.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Streetpeople probably have developed very strong immune systems due to exposure to everything under the sun.
i.e. let your kids eat dirt, don't shelter them.

I don't know it might be a weird mix. Often they are infected with one or more things constantly too. Might be that helps with COVID or similar things, maybe not. I certainly notice a lot of them hacking and wheezing in the winter months.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't know it might be a weird mix. Often they are infected with one or more things constantly too. Might be that helps with COVID or similar things, maybe not. I certainly notice a lot of them hacking and wheezing in the winter months.

Covid has a 99% chance of survival in the regular population. I don't doubt that being disproportionately exposed to Flu and other infections, if not fatal, would aid in developing an immune system.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

Covid has a 99% chance of survival in the regular population. I don't doubt that being disproportionately exposed to Flu and other infections, if not fatal, would aid in developing an immune system.

I agree, but my point was that a significant portion of these people have "co-morbidities" and overall poor health and nutrition which should be working against their survival rates.

I think COVID transmission overwhelming happens indoors, in constant close proximity (talking, etc). This isn't the lifestyle of the homeless by and large.

[officedweller]

Good point about being outdoors, but many also sit in the same place for long periods.
The old Native guy who sits on the sidewalk near London Drugs and carves seems to be doing okay.
He coughs sometimes but he is still there. I've seen him eating food truck food.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't know it might be a weird mix. Often they are infected with one or more things constantly too. Might be that helps with COVID or similar things, maybe not. I certainly notice a lot of them hacking and wheezing in the winter months.

Definitely a lot of hacking coughing going on - outside the Hudson's Bay and Library Square each night - but they aren't hospitalized (or at least I guess we don't see the ones that may have taken to hospital).

[SeymourDrake]

Has it been proven that once you catch Covid that you can catch it again?

If you have it once, can you still spread it to someone else?

The vaccine is a big question mark to me, if you've already had covid will you need to get the vaccine?

I have no doubt that the Majority of those in the DTES are tough as nails. Their immune system may be able to cope with covid the same way people outside of the DTES do. They do get more fresh air than the regular person. They get tons of sleep.

strange times., good health to everyone

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by SeymourDrake

Has it been proven that once you catch Covid that you can catch it again?

If you have it once, can you still spread it to someone else?

The vaccine is a big question mark to me, if you've already had covid will you need to get the vaccine?

I have no doubt that the Majority of those in the DTES are tough as nails. Their immune system may be able to cope with covid the same way people outside of the DTES do. They do get more fresh air than the regular person. They get tons of sleep.

strange times., good health to everyone

It's been proven that you can catch Covid more than once. From what they've seen so far, after having Covid the immunity only lasts a few months - so yes you'd still need to get the vaccine. Currently the question is will you only need one vaccine shot or will it be an annual one like the flu vaccine shot.

[jlousa]

Dont think its been conclusively proven you can catch it more then once. In the 32M known cases there is only a handful of reinfected. That number probably points to an original misdiagnosis or an extremely rare outlier. Don't think the medical community is worried about infections based on current data.

Back to the dtes did anyone else catch Jon Stovell on CKNW yesterday afternoon talking about the state of the area? Good to see someome with a voice speaking about the failure of abandoning the 4 pillars and focusing only on harm reduction. We need to rebalance and look at prevention, treatment and yes enforcement. I don't see a change with the current political parties running the show though.