West Broadway Area | Winnipeg | Development

[buzzg]

The old lot kitty corner to Karpathia Credit Union on Grant (which was also a Shell 10 years ago) is the most baffling one to me. It's been empty my whole life, it's big, and it a great area with retail/office on all 3 other corners. Would be perfect for a mixed use building.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by buzzg

The old lot kitty corner to Karpathia Credit Union on Grant (which was also a Shell 10 years ago) is the most baffling one to me. It's been empty my whole life, it's big, and it a great area with retail/office on all 3 other corners. Would be perfect for a mixed use building.

IIRC it either burned down or had a massive fuel leak underground and they had to vent the fumes for years and ever since it’s been an empty lot. Maybe it has some long term environmental restrictions on what can go there?

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Gas stations are a low margin business. The profit isn't in selling gas, but in the extras. The more customers you can churn through your convenience store buying high margin hot rods, windshield washer fluid, chocolate bars, and car washes, the more profitable your location. Yes, there are still 4 pump gas stations that survive, but almost no new ones being built. Dozens of small gas stations, including Domos, have shut down over the past 30 years.

Sure, of course there are bigger profits in the convenience store items, but somehow Domo has managed to survive with a business model that doesn't rely on having a huge footprint. They still operate 17 or 18 locations in Winnipeg, this is a far cry from 'not feasible.' All I'm saying is, if we want smaller gas station is urban areas, we have to zone for that, and the gas companies will find a way to make it work if they want in.

[bomberjet]

I've heard the margins on fuel are pennies per litre. Like 1 to 2 pennies. I go and fill up my 50 litre tank four banger once and a month and the make maybe $1 off me.

[EspionNoir]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've heard the margins on fuel are pennies per litre. Like 1 to 2 pennies. I go and fill up my 50 litre tank four banger once and a month and the make maybe $1 off me.

Sounds pretty reasonable for this kind of products.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

IIRC it either burned down or had a massive fuel leak underground and they had to vent the fumes for years and ever since it’s been an empty lot. Maybe it has some long term environmental restrictions on what can go there?

This property still being vented as well.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Po...!4d-97.1726364

[plrh]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've heard the margins on fuel are pennies per litre. Like 1 to 2 pennies. I go and fill up my 50 litre tank four banger once and a month and the make maybe $1 off me.

It's gotta be more than that. Pump prices vary by 5 or 10 cents per litre across the city. I think the co-op dividend is pretty indicative. I would guess 10-15% retail mark up. But I see your point, the mark up probably barely covers costs in a very competitive market.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Sure, of course there are bigger profits in the convenience store items, but somehow Domo has managed to survive with a business model that doesn't rely on having a huge footprint. They still operate 17 or 18 locations in Winnipeg, this is a far cry from 'not feasible.' All I'm saying is, if we want smaller gas station is urban areas, we have to zone for that, and the gas companies will find a way to make it work if they want in.

Yes, like I said, there are still legacy sites that survive. Drive down any major road to see how many have since closed compared to the amount that remain. The point about feasibility is that it's not feasible to build these small operations today. Most of those Domos are decades old. None that I know of have been built recently. Like Bomberjet said, the margin on fuel is cents on the litre for the operator. You need volume to make a go of it.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've heard the margins on fuel are pennies per litre. Like 1 to 2 pennies. I go and fill up my 50 litre tank four banger once and a month and the make maybe $1 off me.

According to Shell, there is a 4-6% retail mark up on fuel, so yes, a few pennies per litre is right. I read an article from last year before the current economic crash that found Vancouver gas stations had the highest profit margins in Canada and were making about 13 cents per litre at that time.

https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/motorists...l-pricing.html

[Biff]

My family owned a gas station convenience store when I was in my early teens. We made virtually all our money on the convenience side of things. As said, gas margins are so thin and competition so fierce, it was essentially a leader to get people into the store.

[buzzg]

Don't think it was mentioned here, but all the main floor units at Element Condos built high wood fences around their patio areas. Have a friend that lives there and said there had been a lot of disturbances and attempted break-ins, they had no choice.

It looks shitty having a giant fence along Sherbrook, but that's what you get for making them residential when they should have all been commercial space I guess.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Don't think it was mentioned here, but all the main floor units at Element Condos built high wood fences around their patio areas. Have a friend that lives there and said there had been a lot of disturbances and attempted break-ins, they had no choice.

It looks shitty having a giant fence along Sherbrook, but that's what you get for making them residential when they should have all been commercial space I guess.

Sounds like there was zero consultation by the developer with people who actually live-in/know the area and just how sketchy the area can get when the lights go down and all the methed-out nightcrawlers come out

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Sounds like there was zero consultation by the developer with people who actually live-in/know the area and just how sketchy the area can get when the lights go down and all the methed-out nightcrawlers come out

I mean you'd think the city would say something too...

But you're right, they already had to completely redo the storage areas and add a bunch more security features after 6 months because there were so many break-ins and thefts.

[esquire]

I was kind of surprised that the whole main floor wasn't made CRUs... I would have thought that space would be much more desirable for commercial use compared to residential. I like that building but I would not relish the thought of living on the main floor with direct exposure to the street and sidewalk.

[buzzg]

Yeah it was a horrible idea.

[Peggerino]

The Ironclad development on Good Street is coming in nicely. Right now it's at about three storeys in height and had people working on it today. It's pretty cool how on one block one can see three different new developments (Good Street, WB Commons, and 290 Colony).

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was kind of surprised that the whole main floor wasn't made CRUs... I would have thought that space would be much more desirable for commercial use compared to residential. I like that building but I would not relish the thought of living on the main floor with direct exposure to the street and sidewalk.

Probably just goes to show how minimal the demand is for CRUs. It could also be that it's unappealing as a landlord of a small building to have to deal with commercial leasing and tenant issues. Anyway, that place looks really nice.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Probably just goes to show how minimal the demand is for CRUs. It could also be that it's unappealing as a landlord of a small building to have to deal with commercial leasing and tenant issues. Anyway, that place looks really nice.

For sure, I'm sure that someone must have gauged demand and realized they were better off making that space residential. I'm just surprised given that Sherbrook has become a somewhat appealing commercial strip over the last 15 years, and I would think marketing the at-grade residential spaces would be at least somewhat challenging. Or at least I wouldn't be keen on living there as opposed to one of the higher levels.

[buzzg]

There is almost no commercial vacancy on Sherbrook right now, maybe even none. I'm sure if they made the whole thing commercial they'd all be full, no issue. I think the problem here is that it's a Sandhu development and as we've seen with several of their other projects they have no idea what they're doing.

[Biff]

I believe they tried making the first floor CRU's but couldn't fill them. They then turned them into residential as a back-up.