General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[mdpx]

Originally Posted by nickw252

That doesn't seem like a dick statement at all. Meaning, I'm fucking homeless. Tell me to leave here and I have to go somewhere. And then, I'm someone else's problem. And it's true. This hate for people is really unnerving. Would you trade places with the this person and what they're going through? Not likely. Then why the agitation?

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by mdpx

That doesn't seem like a dick statement at all. Meaning, I'm fucking homeless. Tell me to leave here and I have to go somewhere. And then, I'm someone else's problem. And it's true. This hate for people is really unnerving. Would you trade places with the this person and what they're going through? Not likely. Then why the agitation?

100% this.

I think the man's statement was read in a tone which did not exist.

He was likely saying exactly what mdpx paraphrased, that he's homeless and if he's a problem in X location, he goes to Y location and is a problem there too. The man was simply stating a fact and being realistic, why call him scum for having a pretty accurate point of view?

[downtownphxguy12]

Here's the key sentence in the article

"Officials with the City of Phoenix said they had a place for every single person at the site to go that was safe and had food and showers. The reasons most don't take up the city on the offer is complicated."

[biggus diggus]

I have tenants who have lived in homeless shelters from time to time, I've heard all sorts of stories of theft, assault, rape, etc. I don't blame them for not wanting to go there.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I have tenants who have lived in homeless shelters from time to time, I've heard all sorts of stories of theft, assault, rape, etc. I don't blame them for not wanting to go there.

Or the most obvious reason that you skated around which is a requirement to be sober...which for a lot of them they can't do because of their drug or alcohol habit. "trying their best" my ass, can't feel sorry for people like that. Services are there...they don't take advantage of them or choose not to.

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I have tenants who have lived in homeless shelters from time to time, I've heard all sorts of stories of theft, assault, rape, etc. I don't blame them for not wanting to go there.

Oh yeah, i'm sure the streets are a lot safer.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Or the most obvious reason that you skated around which is a requirement to be sober...which for a lot of them they can't do because of their drug or alcohol habit. "trying their best" my ass, can't feel sorry for people like that. Services are there...they don't take advantage of them or choose not to.

Addiction does not mean the same as habit.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

Oh yeah, i'm sure the streets are a lot safer.

You should have a conversation with those less fortunate than you sometime, you might learn some things.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Addiction does not mean the same as habit.

Thanks for proving my point. Services are there, they choose not to get help. Send your kids to go play in the Triangle Traffic area full of needles and let's see how "compassionate" you really are...

[biggus diggus]

Do you understand how addiction works?

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Do you understand how addiction works?

Don't be an idiot... Sorry to blow your mind...but addicts do get help (on their own as well) and many beat their addiction. It's not rocket science...

[biggus diggus]

I think a few of you aren't understanding the issue and want to over-simplify things because it gives you the imaginary resolution you want to see.

Homeless people are not just all magically going to move to a shelter and never go outside to bother you.

Some can't go, some don't want to go, and some aren't allowed to go. These aren't puppies you can just throw into a pound and never have to look at again. whether the reason be drugs, criminal history, fear, or whatever, some just won't be living in a shelter and that's the truth. To call someone scum or make blanket statements as though you know each person's individual story because they aren't in a shelter is asinine at best.

Bottom line is this: they are going be living somewhere and while I agree a neighborhood in the midst of a revitalization isn't the preferable place, they're going to end up somewhere else annoying other people at their next destination. There is some real millennial-type entitlement being shown in the last couple pages of this thread by some of you.

And in response to your last statement, just as many people beat addiction many don't. Come down to earth, get off your soap box, and look at real life.

[nickw252]

The January Arizona Attorney Magazine has an article on metro Phoenix cities' homeless ordinances. Essentially their analysis determined that criminalizing activities of homeless people is a drain on city finances because they are stuck prosecuting these cases and paying to incarcerate the individuals. It further hurts the chances of homeless people getting off the streets because criminal records make it harder to get jobs, and having to pay fines leaves less money for obtaining housing.

Essentially, what I gathered, is that providing additional low-income housing and making social services immediately available is the most cost effective way to get people off the streets and to keep them out of the emergency room.

http://www.azattorneymag-digital.com...&folio=32#pg35

[downtownphxguy12]

As in life, everything is not absolute. Some people on the street are scum and some are truly deserving people. From my experiences (working and mentoring homeless) i feel it is more of the formal. People can disagree.

Note: I had discussions with a very liberal friend that believe it was societal pressure that caused every issue (drug, alcohol, food addition, homelessness, , crime, etc.). Which is great, you can blame everyone else for ones problems. Try to debate someone with this world view. I on the other hand feel one has to take personal responsibility for their situation in life. There is some truth in both.

I was raised and raised my kids to take personal responsibility for your life. Doesn't mean i can't have empathy and help people out. I do.

I live in the hood, and feel i have good grasp of whats going on. I really try to help people who are down and out (not just giving a homeless person $5 and patting myself on the back for doing so).

As winston Churchill said, to be young and conservative you have no heart, to be old and liberal , you have no brain

[Ballister]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I think a few of you aren't understanding the issue and want to over-simplify things because it gives you the imaginary resolution you want to see.

Homeless people are not just all magically going to move to a shelter and never go outside to bother you.

Some can't go, some don't want to go, and some aren't allowed to go. These aren't puppies you can just throw into a pound and never have to look at again. whether the reason be drugs, criminal history, fear, or whatever, some just won't be living in a shelter and that's the truth. To call someone scum or make blanket statements as though you know each person's individual story because they aren't in a shelter is asinine at best.

Bottom line is this: they are going be living somewhere and while I agree a neighborhood in the midst of a revitalization isn't the preferable place, they're going to end up somewhere else annoying other people at their next destination. There is some real millennial-type entitlement being shown in the last couple pages of this thread by some of you.

And in response to your last statement, just as many people beat addiction many don't. Come down to earth, get off your soap box, and look at real life.

Well said.

[Ballister]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

As in life, everything is not absolute. Some people on the street are scum and some are truly deserving people. From my experiences (working and mentoring homeless) i feel it is more of the formal. People can disagree.

Note: I had discussions with a very liberal friend that believe it was societal pressure that caused every issue (drug, alcohol, food addition, homelessness, , crime, etc.). Which is great, you can blame everyone else for ones problems. Try to debate someone with this world view. I on the other hand feel one has to take personal responsibility for their situation in life. There is some truth in both.

I was raised and raised my kids to take personal responsibility for your life. Doesn't mean i can't have empathy and help people out. I do.

I live in the hood, and feel i have good grasp of whats going on. I really try to help people who are down and out (not just giving a homeless person $5 and patting myself on the back for doing so).

As winston Churchill said, to be young and conservative you have no heart, to be old and liberal , you have no brain

Whether you raise your kid with those values, your kids can end up on the streets. Do you think the homeless come from homeless parents? It's like saying gay kids come from gay parents (uh, no). There is value in taking personal responsibility. I get that. But it's through your own personal lens. Not everyone has that ability, background or understanding of how to do that.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Ballister

Whether you raise your kid with those values, your kids can end up on the streets. Do you think the homeless come from homeless parents? It's like saying gay kids come from gay parents (uh, no). There is value in taking personal responsibility. I get that. But it's through your own personal lens. Not everyone has that ability, background or understanding of how to do that.

Agreed. All you can do is try your best and to put your children in the best position possible. But it doesn’t mean you can guarantee their success. My best friend was raised right and was a good person. He’s now a heroin addict living on the street. Nothing his parents could’ve done.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

As in life, everything is not absolute. Some people on the street are scum and some are truly deserving people. From my experiences (working and mentoring homeless) i feel it is more of the formal. People can disagree.

Note: I had discussions with a very liberal friend that believe it was societal pressure that caused every issue (drug, alcohol, food addition, homelessness, , crime, etc.). Which is great, you can blame everyone else for ones problems. Try to debate someone with this world view. I on the other hand feel one has to take personal responsibility for their situation in life. There is some truth in both.

I was raised and raised my kids to take personal responsibility for your life. Doesn't mean i can't have empathy and help people out. I do.

I live in the hood, and feel i have good grasp of whats going on. I really try to help people who are down and out (not just giving a homeless person $5 and patting myself on the back for doing so).

As winston Churchill said, to be young and conservative you have no heart, to be old and liberal , you have no brain

Comment of the Year! Srsly, nicely stated.

There is some truth in both.

Yup

And this one is too funny (and true)

As winston Churchill said, to be young and conservative you have no heart, to be old and liberal , you have no brain

I have no idea how much good it has done but Denver has built maybe four new 3-5-story buildings of 'transitional' housing over the last decade which is mostly studio apts IIRC. One of the new buildings has a ground floor health clinic which is waaay cheaper than hospitals, for example. It definitely does help with those who are short timers, maybe lost a job or divorce etc and do respond well to help. It can help with others as well; some who are more likely to get part-time jobs where it's not enough are often assigned living units. Picture the harmless older fellow or easy-going mildly mental chap.

They say that it's typical to become more conservative as you get older. It's true.

The more you tolerate the problem the more you enable it. For many, a lot actually, it's their badge of honor to survive on the streets but their 'courage and stamina' would be better spent choosing a different pathway. Many are plenty capable; they just find the 'challenge' of being homeless more satisfying and hassle-free; no fear of failure needed. If you care for their plight I would guess that more of a tough-love approach has better odds of actually providing real help.

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Agreed. All you can do is try your best and to put your children in the best position possible. But it doesn’t mean you can guarantee their success. My best friend was raised right and was a good person. He’s now a heroin addict living on the street. Nothing his parents could’ve done.

My 24 yr old son has lost too many (Pinnacle) HS friends to heroin or car/motorcycle crashes. Too many to count sadly.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Or the most obvious reason that you skated around which is a requirement to be sober...which for a lot of them they can't do because of their drug or alcohol habit. "trying their best" my ass, can't feel sorry for people like that. Services are there...they don't take advantage of them or choose not to.

Housing FIRST! - sober requirements are a joke - are they going to offer to help these folks get clean? What are the programs we run to help homeless addicts?

[fawd]

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...roosevelt.html

According to the business journal: businesses in the area have had to add security as a rsult of individuals sleeping on their property... and entering their buildings & establishments.


This problem is obviously having a very detrimental effect on businesses in the area.