Amazon cancels plans for HQ2 in new york

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

But in reality, it is what it is. Amazon is so special because they are offering 25k highly paid jobs. If I were to ask for a tax break for my startup with 5 jobs, I wouldn't be so special. That makes sense but it also is not fair.

It's also why business dynamism is so low these days. The big businesses can throw their weight around like this and get whatever they want while small businesses get crushed by all the taxes and regulations.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

It's also why business dynamism is so low these days. The big businesses can throw their weight around like this and get whatever they want while small businesses get crushed by all the taxes and regulations.

Absolutely. I don't support this, I just understand this.

[tdawg]

As a resident of the area I’m fine with this. LIC/Hunters Point is already booming so maybe now we’ll get the time we need for the infrastructure to catch up and I was kind of dreading the loss of character of the area. Right now it’s a cool mix of row houses on cobble stoned streets, new high rises and parks, and warehouses. It kind of reminds me of the Williamsburg I knew in the early 2000s.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Amazon Will Pay a Whopping $0 in Federal Taxes on $11.2 Billion Profits

Someone explain to me how this is a thing that rationally should be allowed to happen

For many years, Amazon sacrificed profitability for market share. The thinking on Wall Street was that whenever they finally decided they wanted to become profitable, they could do it and so they bid up the stock, but the fact remains that they were NOT profitable. The Federal tax code allows losses to be accumulated and rolled over to be set against future profits until they've been "used up". Most likely, Amazon is still using up past losses.

[UPChicago]

Very random question but would NYC have been better off offering $61k grants to 25,000 start-ups or $61k per job to Amazon?

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Sorry, but that view is very 2013* (or very 2018--take your pick). A variety of tech companies have decided in favor of the mutual inspiration that talking to your fellow workers face to face can provide. That's why most tech companies today provide lounge and recreation space in their buildings and disdain "cubicles" where you can isolate yourself (as you could at home). They want you talking and collectively "brainstorming" even if it's not about work.

But now along comes this:

A 2-Year Stanford Study Shows the Astonishing Productivity Boost of Working From Home

So now the jury has gone back out again and we'll have to wait for a consensus to rebuild. But still, most companies are like Amazon and want everybody under the corporate roof most of the time (that's why they give out so much free food, provide free dog grooming and buy so many foosball tables, after all).

*2013 was when Yahoo famously reversed its policy and told everybody by memo to come back into the office.

The 9-5 is what is unproductive, people shouldn't be forced to sit at an office for extra hours even if they've finished work for the day. It would also be so much better for city traffic.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by The North One

The 9-5 is what is unproductive, people shouldn't be forced to sit at an office for extra hours even if they've finished work for the day. It would also be so much better for city traffic.

like another way we should look at work is from the perspective of what hours make sense for different roles - most developers i know are real night owls. meanwhile my brain is absolute mush by like 4pm. our office is slowly trying out flex hours but its still less than ideal.

i just fully resent having to pay money to commute for an hour to be distracted in a big loud room by idiots that i hate. i dont know how anyone is exected to be productive when theres people stopping by your desk every 5 minutes and 10 different phone calls are happening simultaneously and youre getting IMs from people asking if youve read that email yet. all of these solutions that are supposedly there to increase productivity actually do precisely the opposite. i need long, uninterrupted, QUIET spans of time in order to be productive so i can actually think and do the work i was hired to do.

the thing is, executives are the opposite because the only thing they care about is projecting an image. they want to bring clients into a manicured space and say "look at us! look at all these people in this space running around doing things! look at our fancy countertops and our tastefully exposed brick and timber beams in our of-the-moment neighborhood! just listen to that cacophony of sound!" i shit you not, but a few years back they hired people for a day to sit in seats and pretend like they were working so that when they walked some prospective client through the the office it seemed more "alive" and higher staffed. corporate america in 2019 is a joke, and for all the gnashing of teeth about inefficiency and bureaucracy in government, its so unbelievable in your average office. project managers getting paid 90k a year just to book meetings and herd sheep.

[chris08876]

Some of the most productive employees are ones that thrive without micromanagement. If you let the good employees do their thing, they will thrive.

There are good folks in management positions, but also a lot of shitty ones too that shouldn't be in such positions.

That's kinda what the traditional office breeds. Idiots distracting you, the micromanaging types swinging by your office to see 'whats up', because they are the type A's which is not a personality type IMO but another version of ahole disorder.

The way I look at it, if productivity and quality of work is high, let them do it in a manner that works effectively. I have the ability to work from home and am in a regional management role, and it hasn't slowed down my productivity and quality of work one iota. But I got lucky, as my last position required 10 hour days, and an hour and 15 minute commute through heavy traffic. While I travel a lot, working from home has saved me a lot of money traveling (even with a Stipend). If anything, I make a profit off my Stipend.

Stress wise, what a relief.

That's another thing folks don't talk enough about... stress. Employees that have less stress will be more productive, and actually enjoy their work. If an office is toxic, that will kill productivity and morale. Something that working from home can mitigate.

[SteveD]

My early years were spent in office environments that were stifling and unproductive. Best thing I ever did for myself was embark on a career as a self employed consultant working out of a home office, now 17 years ago. I can't conceive of ever waking up and heading into an office again.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by The North One

The 9-5 is what is unproductive, people shouldn't be forced to sit at an office for extra hours even if they've finished work for the day. It would also be so much better for city traffic.

Generally, in the tech world, the hours are not rigid. In fact, it has been said that the reason the tech companies offer employees so many services like free food, childcare, pet care and so on is to keep them in the office at meal times and well into the evening when necessary (and in return, they can not come in for many reasons or none at all if they don't need to).

Originally Posted by chris08876

Some of the most productive employees are ones that thrive without micromanagement. If you let the good employees do their thing, they will thrive.

Again, the reason usually given to have tech workers come to an office is the creativity that springs from talking to each other, not making them available for micromanagement. It's a form of productivity that's hard to measure and it's different probably for wrote tasks like coding vs design/engineering work. But one fresh idea from a colleague can be worth hours sitting at your own desk or computer plugging away on a failed/bad concept.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by chris08876

There are good folks in management positions, but also a lot of shitty ones too that shouldn't be in such positions.

.

this is because theres no other option for advancement once you get past a certain level. if you want your income to increase you have to manage people, and that funnels literally everyone into that role regardless of their skillset or even desire to do so. there are far far more bad managers than good managers in the world, and this is why

[mrnyc]

amazon had already signed on to the hudson yards manhattan west development for 2k new advertising office jobs. that makes for 4k amazon office jobs in the city, as others are scattered around town.

that's enough amazon white collar business for nyc.

if you can even trust them that 2k will happen.

i mean there is a lease, but all those employment numbers are underpaid drones or just gimmicky bs.

and did i read bezos gives like basically nothing to charity as compared to other mega rich people? yes i did. a publicity pittance to send a few immigrant kids to college is all, then he screws his workers and everyone else over:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...lution-253693/

whatever. buncha jerks.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

like another way we should look at work is from the perspective of what hours make sense for different roles - most developers i know are real night owls. meanwhile my brain is absolute mush by like 4pm. our office is slowly trying out flex hours but its still less than ideal.

i just fully resent having to pay money to commute for an hour to be distracted in a big loud room by idiots that i hate. i dont know how anyone is exected to be productive when theres people stopping by your desk every 5 minutes and 10 different phone calls are happening simultaneously and youre getting IMs from people asking if youve read that email yet. all of these solutions that are supposedly there to increase productivity actually do precisely the opposite. i need long, uninterrupted, QUIET spans of time in order to be productive so i can actually think and do the work i was hired to do.

the thing is, executives are the opposite because the only thing they care about is projecting an image. they want to bring clients into a manicured space and say "look at us! look at all these people in this space running around doing things! look at our fancy countertops and our tastefully exposed brick and timber beams in our of-the-moment neighborhood! just listen to that cacophony of sound!" i shit you not, but a few years back they hired people for a day to sit in seats and pretend like they were working so that when they walked some prospective client through the the office it seemed more "alive" and higher staffed. corporate america in 2019 is a joke, and for all the gnashing of teeth about inefficiency and bureaucracy in government, its so unbelievable in your average office. project managers getting paid 90k a year just to book meetings and herd sheep.

Amen.

My gf's stories about her office annoy the hell out of me. She MUST get a project done within the next few hours...but BOOM, meeting. Shes in it for an hour. Then she is getting constant IMs and emails and get distracted by a project manager asking if shes done yet, constantly. She prefers working from home(she does it about once a week) than going to the office, and her commute is a 5 minute walk. She hates it.

I will say, nothing matches the military.

There were nights I would be done working at 3 in the afternoon and I wouldn't be able to head home until 4 in the morning, no lie. One team one fight LOL

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

All this talk and I feel like it's all missing the bigger point that white collar companies should not have offices in 2019. what a literal waste of space and resources. Why are we still carrying out this charade.

Amazon's supposed to be this cutting edge tech company and yet they still feel the need to abide by outdated 20th century norms

I don't think interacting with your fellow humans is really an outdated 20th century norm - especially in creative fields where brainstorming needs to happen organically.

Now the 40 hour work week on the other hand...

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

like another way we should look at work is from the perspective of what hours make sense for different roles - most developers i know are real night owls. meanwhile my brain is absolute mush by like 4pm. our office is slowly trying out flex hours but its still less than ideal.

i just fully resent having to pay money to commute for an hour to be distracted in a big loud room by idiots that i hate. i dont know how anyone is exected to be productive when theres people stopping by your desk every 5 minutes and 10 different phone calls are happening simultaneously and youre getting IMs from people asking if youve read that email yet. all of these solutions that are supposedly there to increase productivity actually do precisely the opposite. i need long, uninterrupted, QUIET spans of time in order to be productive so i can actually think and do the work i was hired to do.

the thing is, executives are the opposite because the only thing they care about is projecting an image. they want to bring clients into a manicured space and say "look at us! look at all these people in this space running around doing things! look at our fancy countertops and our tastefully exposed brick and timber beams in our of-the-moment neighborhood! just listen to that cacophony of sound!" i shit you not, but a few years back they hired people for a day to sit in seats and pretend like they were working so that when they walked some prospective client through the the office it seemed more "alive" and higher staffed. corporate america in 2019 is a joke, and for all the gnashing of teeth about inefficiency and bureaucracy in government, its so unbelievable in your average office. project managers getting paid 90k a year just to book meetings and herd sheep.

Jesus. Sounds like your job sucks.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

For many years, Amazon sacrificed profitability for market share. The thinking on Wall Street was that whenever they finally decided they wanted to become profitable, they could do it and so they bid up the stock, but the fact remains that they were NOT profitable. The Federal tax code allows losses to be accumulated and rolled over to be set against future profits until they've been "used up". Most likely, Amazon is still using up past losses.

Carried losses and lots of accelerated depreciation as well I believe.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Jesus. Sounds like your job sucks.

and im sure yours is perfect. work is labor, who said im supposed to love it? do we fault assembly line workers or coal miners or retail workers for not loving their work? why is more expected from quote unquote white collar employment? its not just enough to exchange my time and the best years of my life for income, we also now have to all pretend that the shit dosent stink? its a thing i have to do to support myself within the system that currently exists, nothing more.

i present to you, the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

https://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Carried losses and lots of accelerated depreciation as well I believe.

I believe C-corps are only able to claim operating losses in the current tax year starting this year.

[Antares41]

NYC will be fine in the long run. I feel the deal was wrought with problems from the very beginning in that the local politician and community was not involved in the decision/discussion to the extent that ensured as smooth a roll-out as possible. This created a immediate opposition especially by people who did not see themselves getting those high-tech 125K/yr. jobs; I guess that just human nature at play.
Then there is this back and forth about 3 billion dollars as if it in a room behind locked doors ready to be handed over to Amazon . Certainly any involvement with the community would have been a long drawn out process that would have taken years, but, Amazon has been and is still slated to grow jobs in NYC anyway, so there wasn't any rush.
My final take is that I do lament that some of the dynamism that a tech HQ like Amazon would have brought to LIC is likely gone, but, NYC, has always taken a lot of blows in my lifetime and somehow someway manages to continue strong growth; this will be no exception.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

and im sure yours is perfect. work is labor, who said im supposed to love it? do we fault assembly line workers or coal miners or retail workers for not loving their work? why is more expected from quote unquote white collar employment? its not just enough to exchange my time and the best years of my life for income, we also now have to all pretend that the shit dosent stink? its a thing i have to do to support myself within the system that currently exists, nothing more.

i present to you, the phenomenon of bullshit jobs

https://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

The problem isn't that you don't enjoy your job, it's that your job is unproductive. Coal miners and assembly line workers produce useful things for the economy. From what you posted it sounds like a lot of your day isn't spent productively so it's a much different issue.