Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[FrankieFlowerpot]

I'm guessing they didn't look at his time in Ottawa.

[MonctonRad]

Nice nighttime photo of the 8,800 seat Avenir Centre in downtown Moncton, highlighting the plaza and public outdoor skating oval.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Nice nighttime photo of the 8,800 seat Avenir Centre in downtown Moncton, highlighting the plaza and public outdoor skating oval.

Looks great.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Nice nighttime photo of the 8,800 seat Avenir Centre in downtown Moncton, highlighting the plaza and public outdoor skating oval.

Very nice looking building. The plaza, etc. also look great. Do you know what this project cost? Also, did they ever consider making the capacity of the arena larger so they could attract bigger acts/events?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

I'm guessing they didn't look at his time in Ottawa.

No kidding. The article doesn't even mention his brief stint in Ottawa.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Very nice looking building. The plaza, etc. also look great. Do you know what this project cost? Also, did they ever consider making the capacity of the arena larger so they could attract bigger acts/events?

Overall cost was about $120M.

A lot of people were upset that seating capacity wasn't set at 10,000, but it was a struggle getting financing arranged and compromises had to be made.

To be fair, average Wildcats attendance is about 4,500 with average peak attendance in the 6,000-7,000 range. The place would be sold out only once or twice a year (except for major playoff series).

Capacity:

- 8,800 for hockey
- 9,500 for basketball
- 10,000 for concerts

It's really only for concerts that extra capacity would have been nice.

[esquire]

^ 10,000 for concerts seems good enough to get the scale of concerts that Moncton would like to attract, no? Paying more on top of an already steep project price for just a handful of concerts each year that might attract in that 12 thousand range, while simultaneously diminishing the atmosphere by adding empty seats to most hockey games doesn't seem like an enticing proposition.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Overall cost was about $120M.
.

That's not bad for what you got.

Gatineau's new complex is costing about 80 million for a main arena capacity of 4,000-5,000 depending on the event, plus three adjacent community ice pads with limited seating.

We are also building a multi-level parking garage right next to it at a cost of 20-25 million.

[The S'toon Goon]

The rink in Moncton turned out great! I wonder if it the region could host the world Juniors one day. I know that Halifax has done it, but maybe New Brunswick could handle it on its own? Are the arenas in Fredericton or Saint John decent?

Of course it goes against the recent trend of hockey Canada giving the tourney to the major metros of the country.

[SaskScraper]

^^ The New Brunswick arena looks to be size appropriate for the population there.

Medicine Hat built their arena a few years ago with most of the 7,100 seats in horseshoe shape (8,000 seats for end-of-arena staged concerts, 9,000 for centre stage concerts).


Canalta End Arena Stage Concert Seating

Regina's Brandt Centre is the same with most seats in horseshoe shape to maximize concert seating. Avenir Centre in Moncton may have been able to take advantage of horseshoe shaped seating too but looks to be mostly bowl shaped (with part of one side cut out) which only would limit end-arena stage seating capacity by a few hundred seats i'd imagine.

[Djeffery]

That 9000-ish number seems to be about the sweet spot that municipalities want to spend on. When Budweiser Gardens was built in London (then John Labatt Centre), the Hunters who own the London Knights, wanted about 6500 seats, thinking anything larger wouldn't work for them. Many people in the city wanted more than 10k, like upwards of 12-13k, for concerts. We ended up with about 6500 on the main level, and an upper bowl of about 2500, that could be curtained off. The city numbers showed the cost to make the building 3000-4000 seats larger would have drastically increased (maybe doubled?) the cost of the place. It cost about $40million or so, 20 years ago when construction started.

Maybe looking back, $80million might not have been bad, but we have done pretty good attracting events here. Only big thing really missing is World Juniors, which who knows if we could have got with 13k seats. I don't think there are any concerts we would have got with those seats that we didn't already get. The Knights have sold 9000 a game for 18 years, so I'm sure they are happy with the money almost 2 million extra tickets sold over that time managed to give them compared to if we went with how they wanted lol.

[EpicPonyTime]

The World Juniors seem to becoming more and more the exclusive event of the NHL cities. Including 2021, only two of the nine times Canada has hosted since 2000 (Halifax in 2003 and Saskatoon in 2010) have not had a NHL city as the main host.

It's a shame, because while I understand the appeal of Edmonton and Toronto to Hockey Canada and the IIHF, this is the exact type of tournament which should be played in cities like Moncton and London since they tend to get lost in the bigger cities. In the smaller cities, they are the event of the winter and can have huge spin-offs for the community. Without the tournaments in 1991 and 2010, Saskatoon would have never expanded Sask Place to what it is now and the city would have missed out on a lot of concerts, events, and even the Rush.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The S'toon Goon

The rink in Moncton turned out great! I wonder if it the region could host the world Juniors one day. I know that Halifax has done it, but maybe New Brunswick could handle it on its own? Are the arenas in Fredericton or Saint John decent?

Of course it goes against the recent trend of hockey Canada giving the tourney to the major metros of the country.

Moncton has the largest arena in the province.

Saint John's seats just under 7,000 I think, and Fredericton about 3,500.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

The World Juniors seem to becoming more and more the exclusive event of the NHL cities. Including 2021, only two of the nine times Canada has hosted since 2000 (Halifax in 2003 and Saskatoon in 2010) have not had a NHL city as the main host.

It's a shame, because while I understand the appeal of Edmonton and Toronto to Hockey Canada and the IIHF, this is the exact type of tournament which should be played in cities like Moncton and London since they tend to get lost in the bigger cities. In the smaller cities, they are the event of the winter and can have huge spin-offs for the community. Without the tournaments in 1991 and 2010, Saskatoon would have never expanded Sask Place to what it is now and the city would have missed out on a lot of concerts, events, and even the Rush.

I know London made solid bids for 2006, which went to Vancouver, and 2010. The last time with the Toronto/Montreal split, they ended up with a lot of empty seats, and even Buffalo a couple years ago had some sales issues. Considering Buffalo is almost marketed as an Ontario host even being in the US, that was 3 out of 4 years with Toronto and Buffalo involved and Hockey Canada did say they were open to looking at non-NHL host arenas. So, of course, the next chance they get (Vancouver was already set in there for last year), they go to Edmonton lol.

Canada hosts again in 24, 26 and 29, and London for sure will make another bid, especially now with a pot of money from a hotel tourism tax growing for exactly that kind of purpose. 2024 will be our best bet (and any other non-NHL city) because I think we can pencil in Calgary's new arena for 2026 and possibly Ottawa in 29.

[MonctonRad]

There have been mutterings that Halifax and Moncton should stage a joint bid for the World Juniors.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Hockey Canada did say they were open to looking at non-NHL host arenas. So, of course, the next chance they get (Vancouver was already set in there for last year), they go to Edmonton lol.

Hey now: Red Deer gets some games. So they kept their promise.

I'm not a big fan of the recent trend of NHL city + smaller city as hosts given that the smaller city usually only ever gets the less desirable teams/games. Junior hockey is the bread and butter of some of these smaller communities and it's a shame they don't ever get to play host to some of Canada's games. But it's a money decision, so what can you do.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Overall cost was about $120M.

A lot of people were upset that seating capacity wasn't set at 10,000, but it was a struggle getting financing arranged and compromises had to be made.

To be fair, average Wildcats attendance is about 4,500 with average peak attendance in the 6,000-7,000 range. The place would be sold out only once or twice a year (except for major playoff series).

Capacity:

- 8,800 for hockey
- 9,500 for basketball
- 10,000 for concerts

It's really only for concerts that extra capacity would have been nice.

Based on the photo I'd say you guys got good bang for the buck. Do you think Moncton could support an NLL team? It would add ~ 10 to 13 dates to the arena helping to make it more financially stable. Being the only pro sport in the area I think it would be doable.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Hey now: Red Deer gets some games. So they kept their promise.

I'm not a big fan of the recent trend of NHL city + smaller city as hosts given that the smaller city usually only ever gets the less desirable teams/games. Junior hockey is the bread and butter of some of these smaller communities and it's a shame they don't ever get to play host to some of Canada's games. But it's a money decision, so what can you do.

I was actually surprised when I saw Red Deer was Edmonton's partner, but I'm not sure Red Deer is going to be really happy with the games they get. It will be the second time since Saskatoon 2010 that a non-NHL arena will be used in Canada for the tournament (Victoria a year ago). I guess Edmonton didn't want to share with Calgary this time (or Calgary didn't want to be part of it), but really, the 2 NHL city partnerships that Calgary/Edmonton and Toronto/Montreal really don't work well. The deal always is one city gets the medal round and the other hosts Team Canada during round robin. So you really have one large arena hosting a group of teams people don't really care about but have to buy a ticket package to get the medal round tickets.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The deal always is one city gets the medal round and the other hosts Team Canada during round robin. So you really have one large arena hosting a group of teams people don't really care about but have to buy a ticket package to get the medal round tickets.

Hockey Canada thought they could combat this issue in Toronto and Montreal by letting them host back-to-back, with the cities alternating as the primary host.

The result was alright for the first tournament, but there was a major drop-off in interest two years later. No one in either city cared at that point.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Based on the photo I'd say you guys got good bang for the buck. Do you think Moncton could support an NLL team? It would add ~ 10 to 13 dates to the arena helping to make it more financially stable. Being the only pro sport in the area I think it would be doable.

I doubt that the NLL would make it in Moncton. There really isn't a lacrosse tradition in this province. Box lacrosse only arrived in the city about 15 years ago, and one of my sons played house league for a couple of years. The house league is only moderately successful.

The Avenir Centre is fairly busy with both the QMJHL and the NBLC.

- The Moncton Wildcats have 34 home games per year and up to 16 playoff games.
- The Moncton Magic have 20 home games per year and up to 11 playoff games.

So, that's 54-81 days booked for sporting events, and another 20-25 nights per year booked with concerts, Stars on Ice, Cirque de Soleil etc, which amounts to as much as slightly over 100 nights per year the venue is being used. That's not so bad.

Short of the CFL, which I guess isn't going to happen (except perhaps on a temporary basis if/when the new Halifax stadium is built), I would druther see a CPL franchise in the city rather than a CLL franchise. Moncton did pretty well hosting the FIFA Women's World Cup and the U20 Women's World Cup a few years back, and there is a growing immigrant community in the city supportive of soccer. The 10,000 seat Medavie Blue Cross stadium on the UdeM campus is begging for a tenant like this.