CHICAGO | Politics and Current Events

[Baronvonellis]

If only the crime rate would go down in Lawndale, on paper it does seem like a great location that should gentrify. It's certainly affordable.

"All of these properties sit within a block of the pink line station, a block from Riot Fest, a block from Lagunitas, and a block from Cinespace. This is not an area without reasons to live there. So please, tell me why I continue to get buildings virtually for free if we have such an issue with housing prices."

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Notyrview

The point I've been trying to make ad nauseam is that working class, and especially immigrant communities, depend on living together in close proximity for survival.

This is interesting to me...can you elaborate? I grew up to immigrant parents, dirt poor (in NYC not Chicago) and I don't recall our survival being dependent on living near other poor people.
I'm going to get a lot of shit for this from the bleeding heart crew, but for an able body person, getting out of poverty is not all that hard...having been around very poor people for most of my childhood and into young adulthood, many people are just either Lazy or Stupid or even worse, both. It's the hard truth.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

If only the crime rate would go down in Lawndale, on paper it does seem like a great location that should gentrify. It's certainly affordable.

"All of these properties sit within a block of the pink line station, a block from Riot Fest, a block from Lagunitas, and a block from Cinespace. This is not an area without reasons to live there. So please, tell me why I continue to get buildings virtually for free if we have such an issue with housing prices."

because hes overstating the attractiveness of those "amenities". the average person (or lets be real, the "gentry", since thats the only demographic here anyone seems to care about) has no reason to live directly near a backlot production facility, or park that hosts a one weekend a year festival, in a neighborhood that otherwise still has legitimate crime and gang issues. thats not to say it isnt an adequate place for lots of people to live for lots of people but lagunitas or riot fest has little to nothing to do with it.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

This is interesting to me...can you elaborate? I grew up to immigrant parents, dirt poor (in NYC not Chicago) and I don't recall our survival being dependent on living near other poor people.
I'm going to get a lot of shit for this from the bleeding heart crew, but for an able body person, getting out of poverty is not all that hard...having been around very poor people for most of my childhood and into young adulthood, many people are just either Lazy or Stupid or even worse, both. It's the hard truth.

I think it's unfair to assume that individuals who are trapped in poverty or families mired in generational poverty are there because they are lazy or stupid. The United States has always striven to be a land of opportunity, but opportunity was not awarded equally. It takes 10x the effort to get that job at that well respected firm when you're born and raised in Englewood and your competition was born to a middle, upper middle, or affluent household with the resources and network in place to be successful. In the past, being able bodied and having an average work ethic was enough to put you on a course to the middle class...not so much these days. Better have that STEM degree or an advanced degree in a marketable field with 10+ years experience if you wan't to feel secure and maintain your middle class lifestyle.

Sounds like you did well for yourself, so I don't say this to belittle you, but you're definitely the exception and not the rule.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I think it's unfair to assume that individuals who are trapped in poverty or families mired in generational poverty are there because they are lazy or stupid. The United States has always striven to be a land of opportunity, but opportunity was not awarded equally. It takes 10x the effort to get that job at that well respected firm when you're born and raised in Englewood and your competition was born to a middle, upper middle, or affluent household with the resources and network in place to be successful. In the past, being able bodied and having an average work ethic was enough to put you on a course to the middle class...not so much these days. Better have that STEM degree or an advanced degree in a marketable field with 10+ years experience if you wan't to feel secure and maintain your middle class lifestyle.

Sounds like you did well for yourself, so I don't say this to belittle you, but you're definitely the exception and not the rule.

amen. its like someone being born with the rule book to chutes and ladders and then handing them a chess board and expecting them to win at it. its safe to say i wouldnt be where i am today in my life if i didnt have the parents i had, the education i had, the neighborhood i grew up in, my own life experiences, the global economic climate during the period all of those things have taken place in, living in a country that has not suffered from wars or invasion or overthrows, etc. Thats true of everyone, and just because 10% of people are able to rise out of a situation dosent somehow negate the other glaring 90% who are generationally stuck, or even falling behind. To say nothing of the fact that American is not a level playing field and its hilarious to suggest it ever was. Human beings have this bizaree trait that they latch onto the outliers as evidence to support their cases rather than focusing on the overwhelming trend. And if they themselves are that outlier, than you can be rest assured they will spout the bullshit "if i did it than anyone can" line. I think we all generally discount just what a role luck plays in all of our lives, and the fact we're not all dying at the age of 8 of starvation in a poor African nation, and other people are, is nothing more than cruel cosmic chance. Id ask yourself though if the decisions youre making in your own life are exacerbating or helping to close those divides, because that is the one thing you do actually have control over.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I think it's unfair to assume that individuals who are trapped in poverty or families mired in generational poverty are there because they are lazy or stupid. The United States has always striven to be a land of opportunity, but opportunity was not awarded equally. It takes 10x the effort to get that job at that well respected firm when you're born and raised in Englewood and your competition was born to a middle, upper middle, or affluent household with the resources and network in place to be successful. In the past, being able bodied and having an average work ethic was enough to put you on a course to the middle class...not so much these days. Better have that STEM degree or an advanced degree in a marketable field with 10+ years experience if you wan't to feel secure and maintain your middle class lifestyle.

Sounds like you did well for yourself, so I don't say this to belittle you, but you're definitely the exception and not the rule.

Being trapped in poverty is a state of mind, most able body people are not trapped, they just choose not to do what is necessary, or do not know what to do. I see it virtually every time I speak to people from my old neighborhood (Washington Heights, Manhattan)...The vast majority of people I know don't want to work hard labor jobs (and if you have no education, that is what your options are), here is the quick and dirty on how to get out of poverty:

1. Don't do drugs
2. Don't have kids you can't afford
3. Read. Read. Read. Every book/website you can on how to make money, be financially savvy, etc...I'd recommend Rich Dad Poor Dad to start.
4. Get a job, any job really. Fast food, Construction, Garbage Man (or better yet, all of the above)
5. Apply for a credit card to establish credit, and put every purchase you make on it, and pay off immediately.
6. Make a budget...What are your absolute necessary monthly expenses? How much do you make? do you have enough? If not, get roommates, work more hours, go door to door asking to shovel snow, do yard work (I did this for 6 years as a kid)
7. Save. Save. Save. After a few years, you've probably saved enough for downpayment on an FHA loan, and have built some credit.
8. Buy a house, and get roommates. Have a 3 bed house with a basement? rent out all of the rooms and rent a room in the basement, you'll probably live for free.
9. Make improvements to house over time.

It ain't pretty, and most people are not willing to put in the work, but it's not hard.

[Via Chicago]

bootstraps amirite

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Being trapped in poverty is a state of mind, most able body people are not trapped, they just choose not to do what is necessary, or do not know what to do. I see it virtually every time I speak to people from my old neighborhood (Washington Heights, Manhattan)...The vast majority of people I know don't want to work hard labor jobs (and if you have no education, that is what your options are), here is the quick and dirty on how to get out of poverty:

1. Don't do drugs
2. Don't have kids you can't afford
3. Read. Read. Read. Every book/website you can on how to make money, be financially savvy, etc...I'd recommend Rich Dad Poor Dad to start.
4. Get a job, any job really. Fast food, Construction, Garbage Man (or better yet, all of the above)
5. Apply for a credit card to establish credit, and put every purchase you make on it, and pay off immediately.
6. Make a budget...What are your absolute necessary monthly expenses? How much do you make? do you have enough? If not, get roommates, work more hours, go door to door asking to shovel snow, do yard work (I did this for 6 years as a kid)
7. Save. Save. Save. After a few years, you've probably saved enough for downpayment on an FHA loan, and have built some credit.
8. Buy a house, and get roommates. Have a 3 bed house with a basement? rent out all of the rooms and rent a room in the basement, you'll probably live for free.
9. Make improvements to house over time.

It ain't pretty, and most people are not willing to put in the work, but it's not hard.

If it were really this easy, everyone would have done it and poverty would have ended decades ago.

The simple truth is that certain classes of Americans have been systematically shut out of decades (centuries?) of wealth creation. Minorities (and white women) in the United States were LEGALLY treated as second class citizens as recently as the 1960s. There are very real reasons why people in the United States get trapped in poverty and it has nothing to do with them being lazy or stupid.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

amen. its like someone being born with the rule book to chutes and ladders and then handing them a chess board and expecting them to win at it. its safe to say i wouldnt be where i am today in my life if i didnt have the parents i had, the education i had, the neighborhood i grew up in, my own life experiences, the global economic climate during the period all of those things have taken place in, living in a country that has not suffered from wars or invasion or overthrows, etc. Thats true of everyone, and just because 10% of people are able to rise out of a situation dosent somehow negate the other glaring 90% who are generationally stuck, or even falling behind. To say nothing of the fact that American is not a level playing field and its hilarious to suggest it ever was. Human beings have this bizaree trait that they latch onto the outliers as evidence to support their cases rather than focusing on the overwhelming trend. And if they themselves are that outlier, than you can be rest assured they will spout the bullshit "if i did it than anyone can" line. I think we all generally discount just what a role luck plays in all of our lives, and the fact we're not all dying at the age of 8 of starvation in a poor African nation, and other people are, is nothing more than cruel cosmic chance. Id ask yourself though if the decisions youre making in your own life are exacerbating or helping to close those divides, because that is the one thing you do actually have control over.

And fixing the ills of the world are the duty of a guy who owns a 3 flat.

Ok Mr Preach to the world, I tell you what: take a 50% pay cut at your job (You work in the West Loop, I believe?) with that money going towards paying a low income family to work alongside you.

Agree to that, and I’ll agree to rent out an entire building at half my current asking rent.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

If it were really this easy, everyone would have done it and poverty would have ended decades ago.

no dont you understand, these people like doing drugs to dull the pain of growing up in environments filled with trauma, and having more kids than they can reasonably afford as teenagers, and living off that sweet sweet government assistance gravy train.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

If it were really this easy, everyone would have done it and poverty would have ended decades ago.

The simple truth is that certain classes of Americans have been systematically shut out of decades (centuries?) of wealth creation. Minorities (and white women) in the United States were LEGALLY treated as second class citizens as recently as the 1960s. There are very real reasons why people in the United States get trapped in poverty and it has nothing to do with them being lazy or stupid.

The work isn't easy, but creating the path is. Not everyone does it because the vast majority of able body poor people find being poor as the path of least resistance. I've coached several friends/relatives from childhood on how to become self sufficient, and half of them cant get past step 2. The ones who aren't druggies or have kids, don't want to work 15-18 hours a day, they'd rather play Xbox and live in their parents basement.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

bootstraps amirite

God forbid somebody takes accountability and action for their lives, amirite?

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

If it were really this easy, everyone would have done it and poverty would have ended decades ago.

The simple truth is that certain classes of Americans have been systematically shut out of decades (centuries?) of wealth creation. Minorities (and white women) in the United States were LEGALLY treated as second class citizens as recently as the 1960s. There are very real reasons why people in the United States get trapped in poverty and it has nothing to do with them being lazy or stupid.

My offer extends to you as well:

Take a 50% paycut at your job, with that money going to a low income family to work alongside you. In return, I will drop my rents in 1 building by 50%.

You, Via, Notyrview—PM me if you want to meet up and make a deal. Let’s see how strongly you feel about this when it affects your bottom line, not somebody else’s.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

no dont you understand, these people like doing drugs to dull the pain of growing up in environments filled with trauma, and having more kids than they can reasonably afford as teenagers, and living off that sweet sweet government assistance gravy train.

Cool. Take a 50% paycut and help them out. I will do the same. I mean it. Are you in?

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Being trapped in poverty is a state of mind, most able body people are not trapped, they just choose not to do what is necessary, or do not know what to do. I see it virtually every time I speak to people from my old neighborhood (Washington Heights, Manhattan)...The vast majority of people I know don't want to work hard labor jobs (and if you have no education, that is what your options are), here is the quick and dirty on how to get out of poverty:

1. Don't do drugs
2. Don't have kids you can't afford
3. Read. Read. Read. Every book/website you can on how to make money, be financially savvy, etc...I'd recommend Rich Dad Poor Dad to start.
4. Get a job, any job really. Fast food, Construction, Garbage Man (or better yet, all of the above)
5. Apply for a credit card to establish credit, and put every purchase you make on it, and pay off immediately.
6. Make a budget...What are your absolute necessary monthly expenses? How much do you make? do you have enough? If not, get roommates, work more hours, go door to door asking to shovel snow, do yard work (I did this for 6 years as a kid)
7. Save. Save. Save. After a few years, you've probably saved enough for downpayment on an FHA loan, and have built some credit.
8. Buy a house, and get roommates. Have a 3 bed house with a basement? rent out all of the rooms and rent a room in the basement, you'll probably live for free.
9. Make improvements to house over time.

It ain't pretty, and most people are not willing to put in the work, but it's not hard.

This is if you are able to avoid gangs if you grow up in the ghetto. Have a parent around that can guide you a bit. Yeah people have kids when they should not. That child has no control of that situation. If that kid has no guidance and not raised well then they really do not have as many opportunities as you think. And god forbid that kid makes a mistake that gets them in the trouble with the law when they are young. Then they are really screwed. I believe in working hard. My dad was an immigrant who came here with nothing at 16, ended up being a Dr. But he had a loving supporting cast to help him get there. It is not as easy as just telling someone to work harder. If all these things are against you , only the best of the best sometimes get out of the cycle. I do not know what the answer is, you can't force someone to be a good parent. Society can not realistically bare all the cost or making sure a kid has every chance....but we can sure try harder than we are. However let me re iterate, being stuck in an unfortunate situation does not mean you are guaranteed to live wherever you want.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

And fixing the ills of the world are the duty of a guy who owns a 3 flat.

Ok Mr Preach to the world, I tell you what: take a 50% pay cut at your job (You work in the West Loop, I believe?) with that money going towards paying a low income family to work alongside you.

Agree to that, and I’ll agree to rent out an entire building at half my current asking rent.

i lived for 3 years in africa, a year in Haiti, and a year in honduras during some of the prime working years of my life to practice what i preach. i continue to support the causes i care about through donations i make from my day job, and volunteerism on the side (currently involved with Heartland Alliance and various homeless outreach programs). if you need validation from me to make choices in your own life or become involved in causes that actively work to make the world less shitty for more people, that says more about you. the thing is, i fully acknowledge the system is shit/cruel/unfair/exploitative and would be thrilled to see it dismantled and replaced. i suspect you dont feel that way though

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

This is if you are able to avoid gangs if you grow up in the ghetto. Have a parent around that can guide you a bit. Yeah people have kids when they should not. That child has no control of that situation. If that kid has no guidance and not raised well then they really do not have as many opportunities as you think. And god forbid that kid makes a mistake that gets them in the trouble with the law when they are young. Then they are really screwed. I believe in working hard. My dad was an immigrant who came here with nothing at 16, ended up being a Dr. But he had a loving supporting cast to help him get there. It is not as easy as just telling someone to work harder. If all these things are against you , only the best of the best sometimes get out of the cycle. I do not know what the answer is, you can't force someone to be a good parent. Society can not realistically bare all the cost or making sure a kid has every chance....but we can sure try harder than we are. However let me re iterate, being stuck in an unfortunate situation does not mean you are guaranteed to live wherever you want.

So people who joined a gang as a teenager can't work? You have to want to get out of poverty, and until they want it enough and are willing to put in the work, they'll never get out.
Drive through the Ghetto, any ghetto, tell me how many people you see sitting on porches and standing on corners all hours of the day...Are they all waiting for a call back on a job? Unless you grew up in these neighborhoods, like me, you can't understand the poor me attitude and absolute unwillingness to do hard labor or unsexy jobs is.

[Stunnies23]

Let’s not forget that a good portion of those who are stuck in poverty are there becuase of crippling alcoholism and drug addiction. Immigrants who are willing to work hard, learn a new skill, or study in school while they are young will be on the path to the middle class in no time.
The biggest obstacle to success for our children is absent, abusive, susbstance abusing parents. If a child has two adults (mom, dad, Uncle, grandparents, older sibling, whoever) there to show them the right path, their chances for middle class success are huge. It’s those who are born into broken families are the ones that are screwed. No amount of affordable housing or ethnic communities will ever fix that. In fact, gang infested, ethnic communities may make their chances at succes even worse. Because of that, let rehabilitation of old building stock and new construction flourish in ever neighborhood of Chicago!

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

The work isn't easy, but creating the path is. Not everyone does it because the vast majority of able body poor people find being poor as the path of least resistance. I've coached several friends/relatives from childhood on how to become self sufficient, and half of them cant get past step 2. The ones who aren't druggies or have kids, don't want to work 15-18 hours a day, they'd rather play Xbox and live in their parents basement.

I agree with many of your posts, but this is an exaggerated generalization. Most people aren't exceptional, even at the upper crust of society. What did Trump do to deserve his wealth? He'd be some schmuck living on Staten Island and working some mediocre job had he not been born to the parents he was. 15+ hour days take a toll on anyone, but imagine putting in all that work just to get halfway to the starting point John Van Der Smit had at the time of his birth. All that time he's furthering his education and career and making new connections while you're still trying to get your foot in the door. Your posts ignore a well-documented and prolonged legacy of racism and discrimination in this country. Minorities were legally barred from working the same jobs as white people for a century following the Civil War. Before the Civil War, black Americans worked for two centuries as slaves. Native Americans were forcibly removed or slaughtered in the name of progress. The list goes on...

We can't change the past, but blaming the poor for their situation is really no different than blaming the victim of domestic abuse. Obviously there are people who are poor because they've made horrible life choices, but it's not at all fair to say that everyone who is poor is only so because they didn't open a credit card or save 20% of their take home while making minimum wage.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Politics, amirite guyz?