What is the second most urban city in the United States?

[dc_denizen]

compare to Chicago:



Greenville SC to Chicago by asterisktom, on Flickr

gigantic low-rise urbanity outside the core, with few Toronto/miami/DC style nodes.

[dc_denizen]

Compare to Toronto and Miami:

Aerial-Toronto-144 by _futurelandscapes_, on Flickr

Aerial view of Miami Beach and Biscayne Bay, Florida by Michael Rymer, on Flickr

Miami Beach from air IMGP3182 by CanadaGood G.Melle, on Flickr

suburban nodes everywhere but low rise density is lower than Chicago

[JAYNYC]

That's ^ Miami Beach, not Miami.

[dc_denizen]

I'm pointing out the suburban skylines.

[dc_denizen]

This one shows a couple of DC's highrise nodes (not part of the city! but cities limits are not relevant), at least the southern portion..top of Crystal city/rosslyn-ballston/seven corners/shirlington (?)


Hazy aerial view, Arlington, Virginia, and Washington, D.C. by Paul McClure, on Flickr

Is this more urban than Chicago? I guess, if you like highrises in the suburbs surrounded by SFH with trees.

[BnaBreaker]

What do suburban highrise clusters have to do with a city's overall urbanity though? Highrise doesn't automatically equal "urban." That being said, I don't think DC is getting the credit it deserves in this thread... but not because of Tyson Center.

[Shawn]

Let's try to actually keep this one from turning into a city vs. city shitshow.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker

What do suburban highrise clusters have to do with a city's overall urbanity though? Highrise doesn't automatically equal "urban." That being said, I don't think DC is getting the credit it deserves in this thread... but not because of Tyson Center.

I think this goes back to Cirrus' point earlier about there being at least two axes you can measure urbanity on: scale vs. singular experience. DC may not reach the same peak levels as Chicago, Philly, SF, or Boston for either of these differing yet equally valid measurements of urbanity, but it scores really well for both. DC has a scale which people forget or don't realize. NOVA is pretty damn urban at this point for a suburban collar. Bergen County NJ-urban.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

exactly, and those are only two of many other urban high rise nodes (eg Bethesda, Silver Spring, Shirlington, Four Corners, Alexandria, Dun Loring)..

(Reston is obviously marginally urban, but so is a 2-mile long line of high rises plunked down in the middle of 1950s and 1960s suburbia).

Dunn lorimg and Shringtin are not urrban or highrise nodes. It's basic suburban stuff you see anywhere.

And Reston? Looks like any suburban area.
I lived there. It's pure suburban crap.
This is the core area? Huh?

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker

What do suburban highrise clusters have to do with a city's overall urbanity though? Highrise doesn't automatically equal "urban." That being said, I don't think DC is getting the credit it deserves in this thread... but not because of Tyson Center.

Especially in DC area. Alot of the places that have highrises aren't urban at in the slightest. Baileys Crossroads has giant apt towers but no pedestrians. Same goes for many parts of Alexandria around 395. These are not urban places.

[Crawford]

I actually think DC metro looks quite small from the ground, because of the extensive tree cover and relative paucity of prewar fabric. From a car or Acela, DC appears smaller even than Baltimore.

But DC looks huge from the air, due to all the suburban nodes and the geographically large core.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by softee

Toronto's equivalent to those kinds of streets would be Eglinton Avenue, Oakwood Avenue and such, as they are outlying commercial strips within the pre-war part of the city.

https://goo.gl/maps/zucyqu2bosAjAHm2A

https://goo.gl/maps/vysLsySCrbt38nwL9

Wow, that looks eerily like Chicago

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I actually think DC metro looks quite small from the ground, because of the extensive tree cover and relative paucity of prewar fabric. From a car or Acela, DC appears smaller even than Baltimore.

But DC looks huge from the air, due to all the suburban nodes and the geographically large core.

This is the way i perceive Boston, driving in from the west through the "woods" (suburbs). It feels deceptively small, which isn't the worst thing in the world in my opinion.

[suburbanite]

I actually really enjoy that kind of urbanity that can feel small at street-level yet still be in the middle of a large city. DC does it really well, where you can in a very walkable residential neighbourhood with great human scale, but you would never guess you were a couple blocks from the nation's seat of government.

Compared to something like Philadelphia which is very in-your-face (which is a good thing in the context of this thread) to the point where you would never forget you're in a very large city.

[skysoar]

Originally Posted by pj3000

A real estate investment mogul like yourself shouldn’t have the time to worry about he’s talking about.

I have no idea what your trolling point is. Also it should be written as," worry about what he is talking about". Reasonable people can disagree about what constitutes rowhouses, skyscrapers, etc, this is what we do. Having said all that, Washington D.C. looks very impressive and definitely has to be considered in any conversation about urbanity in American cities. Also I had no idea that D.C. development was that vast.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by UPChicago

Wow, that looks eerily like Chicago

I agree. The overhead wires are the tell that it’s not Chicago, but it could easily pass for Chicago to the casual observer.

[destroycreate]

The thing for me which detracts from Chicago's urbanity vs. say, Philly/SF, is that the streets tend to be super wide and the blocks (particularly downtown) enormous. It feels as a result less intimate, hence why I think people may be debating over it's "urban feel". Additionally, while their may be dense housing in many of the neighborhoods, they are required by law to have gaps so you don't get the same kind of hyper dense rowhome feel like you get in other cities.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

The thing for me which detracts from Chicago's urbanity vs. say, Philly/SF, is that the streets tend to be super wide and the blocks (particularly downtown) enormous.

compared to philly? yes, downtown chicago's blocks/streets are bigger/wider.

but the differences are much smaller compared with downtown san francisco.

blocks in downtown SF are ~315' square. in chicago they're ~350' square.

the streetwall to streetwall width for california street in downtown SF is 72'.

the streetwall to streetwall width for madison street in downtown chicago is 78'.



the scales of these two typical downtown intersections are not radically different.

downtown SF: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7932...thumbfov%3D100

the loop: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8819...7i16384!8i8192

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

compard to philly? yes, chicago blocks/streets are bigger/wider.

but the differences are much smaller with downtown san francisco.

blocks in downtown SF are ~315' square. in chicago they're ~350' square.

streetwall to street wall for california street in downtown SF is 72'.

streetwall to streetwall for madison street in downtown chicago is 62'.



the scales of these two typical downtown intersections are not radically different.

downtown SF: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7932...thumbfov%3D100

the loop: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8819...7i16384!8i8192

Yeah, the scale of Chicago and San Francisco is very similar. Surprised to hear anyone say otherwise.

[IrishIllini]

Your Chicago intersection feels less urban than the SF one. Franklin feels very wide. The setbacks off Madison and Franklin at 1 N Wacker and the brownfield and surface parking lot a block north prevent the street from feeling like a canyon.

There’s also more going on infrastructure wise in the street in the SF example. Looks like two-way traffic flow with a cable or street car running through. Franklin and Madison are both one-way traffic flow. Loop Link does a good job of narrowing the street as does the bike lane on Franklin to a lesser extent, but it doesn’t have the same effect as what’s going on in that part of DTSF.