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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 1:01 PM
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Point Roberts would also be a part of Canada.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 2:20 PM
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FFS. Are you guys serious? Is Vancouver Washington in Canada? Not a reason to be a stupid ass homer. I'll say Toronto would be a fucking Buffalo or Rochester if that helps.

You have to consider all of the US if Vancouver was part of the US. Not just Washington and Oregon. There are much warmer and much drier places that consistently steal population from as good or better urban centres on the Northern half of the continent. There are just as many amazing settings if that is a priority. If would be irrelevant against the juggernaut California. I can't think of an Amazon, Boeing or Microsoft to raise the city's profile from the D list to the A list since you seem so engaged in the closest regional rival. My opinion stands at a smaller city, more industrial, less resort due to a larger developed port.

A huge defining moment. What percentage chance do you think Vancouver would have had in hosting Expo86 against other American urban centres?

That's just my opinion. I'll gladly have someone tell me otherwise. The stupidity, the homerism just pisses me off.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper; Jul 8, 2020 at 2:58 PM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
FFS. Are you guys serious? Is Vancouver Washington in Canada? Not a reason to be a stupid ass homer. I'll say Toronto would be a fucking Buffalo or Rochester if that helps.

You have to consider all of the US if Vancouver was part of the US. Not just Washington and Oregon. There are much warmer and much drier places that consistently steal population from as good or better urban centres on the Northern half of the continent. There are just as many amazing settings if that is a priority. If would be irrelevant against the juggernaut California. I can't think of an Amazon, Boeing or Microsoft to raise the city's profile from the D list to the A list since you seem so engaged in the closest regional rival. My opinion stands at a smaller city, more industrial, less resort due to a larger developed port.

A huge defining moment. What percentage chance do you think Vancouver would have had in hosting Expo86 against other American urban centres?

That's just my opinion. I'll gladly have someone tell me otherwise. The stupidity, the homerism just pisses me off.
The OP was not asking about how Vancouver would fare if it were in the US... the question was what if the Canada-US border was further south.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The OP was not asking about how Vancouver would fare if it were in the US... the question was what if the Canada-US border was further south.
Agreed. That was his intent. I'm not sure why some people are misinterpreting the question.

If the international boundary were located as indicated on the map by the OP, I don't think too much would have changed really. Vancouver would still be Canada's premiere west coast port and main population centre. The only real change is that there would be more lebensraum for Vancouver to grow, and more of that growth would have been directed southward rather than eastward along the Freser River. Farmland would have an easier time being preserved, and Vancouver might be a million people larger. Otherwise, not much change.

As for the southern Okanagan, I believe the US portion of the Okanagan would be pretty arid, like Osoyoos. Maybe there might be another small city in the southern Okanagan, and some irrigated farmland, but that would be it.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 4:05 PM
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^ I generally agree with your take. Vancouver would probably be a bit more spread out, it could be a bit more affordable as a result. I guess what it would gain in affordability it might lose in overall urbanity.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by YUNEMUS View Post
How would it affect Bellingham if the boundaries were like on the map above?
Bellingham would be a bedroom community of Vancouver, so it might have more people, but its stature and character would be diminished. Bellingham’s purpose is to be a regional centre for people in Washington state who live north of the Seattle metro along I-5.

A smaller role of Bellingham used to be catering to Vancouver area cross-border shoppers, which would also disappear.

So it would be more like an Abbotsford and less like a Nanaimo.

OT, but between its downtown and the charming Fairhaven district, Bellingham has better historic architecture than any BC cities except Vancouver, Victoria and maybe Nelson. If it were a Vancouver bedroom community it would have none of this.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Bellingham would be a bedroom community of Vancouver,

.
I don't think that Bellingham would be a bedroom community of Vancouver.
For example Hamilton is not a bedroom community of Toronto
Even Hamilton is closer to Toronto than Bellingham - Vancouver distance

Bellingham Vancouver 86 KM
Hamilton Toronto 68 KM



.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
FFS. Are you guys serious? Is Vancouver Washington in Canada? Not a reason to be a stupid ass homer. I'll say Toronto would be a fucking Buffalo or Rochester if that helps.

You have to consider all of the US if Vancouver was part of the US. Not just Washington and Oregon. There are much warmer and much drier places that consistently steal population from as good or better urban centres on the Northern half of the continent. There are just as many amazing settings if that is a priority. If would be irrelevant against the juggernaut California. I can't think of an Amazon, Boeing or Microsoft to raise the city's profile from the D list to the A list since you seem so engaged in the closest regional rival. My opinion stands at a smaller city, more industrial, less resort due to a larger developed port.

A huge defining moment. What percentage chance do you think Vancouver would have had in hosting Expo86 against other American urban centres?

That's just my opinion. I'll gladly have someone tell me otherwise. The stupidity, the homerism just pisses me off.
Its becoming pretty common for you to completely misunderstand a discussion and then become unacceptably offensive when people try to explain things to you. Settle down.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by YUNEMUS View Post
I don't think that Bellingham would be a bedroom community of Vancouver.
For example Hamilton is not a bedroom community of Toronto
Even Hamilton is closer to Toronto than Bellingham - Vancouver distance

Bellingham Vancouver 86 KM
Hamilton Toronto 68 KM



.
Hehehe


Wouldn’t Bellingham likely have developed into BCs premier city if were part of Canada? Closer to the ocean, closer to the states, less constrained by mountains?
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 10:01 PM
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What would Toronto be if 'Canada' (Province of Quebec) had retained Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois?

britannica
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
Hehehe


Wouldn’t Bellingham likely have developed into BCs premier city if were part of Canada? Closer to the ocean, closer to the states, less constrained by mountains?
Yes it would be..
I never thought this way.
even if it wasn't the biggest city in BC it would have at least 500,000 population
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
What would Toronto be if 'Canada' (Province of Quebec) had retained Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois?
What indeed..........

The Brits really snookered Canada during the Treaty of Paris negotiations in 1783. They should have maintained the borders of the Province of Quebec. Canada would have been a much different country.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
What would Toronto be if 'Canada' (Province of Quebec) had retained Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois?
Very likely alot of Canadian growth would have gone to points further south with a milder winter. Toronto would have succeeded regardless but be a significantly smaller city than it is today.

Agree that Britain screwed its remaining American colonies (Province of Canada, Nova Scotia, etc) in 1783. They negotiated away so much prime territory. And it's no better today. In 2020, Canada should be the face of the Commonwealth in North America. The reality is that Britain, Australia, India, etc see the US and we're a peculiar after thought they no next to nothing about. Being in the Commonwealth has NO benefits whatsoever.
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Last edited by isaidso; Jul 9, 2020 at 1:07 AM.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 1:05 AM
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That would have had huge consequences for the development of western Canada.
It surely would have. That said, what Canada didn't get back then we may end up getting in the long run. Climate change comes with lots of negatives but it's also making huge swaths of Canada more appealing from a climate POV. We may not see the benefits of that but I suspect Western Canada will be a vastly more populated place in 2100. The settled area will grow with the grain belt stretching north to Yellowknife.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 2:39 AM
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So, here's my alternate history Canada/US boundary - extending due west from the western tip of Lake Superior until the Snake River, then following the Snake until the Columbia River and then on to the Pacific Coast (follow the red line).



Canada would have been given the top third of Minnesota, about 3/4 of North Dakota, half of Montana, the northern sliver of Idaho and almost all of Washington state.

Frankly, except for Washington state, the US wouldn't even notice the loss of this strip of land, but look at what a tremendous difference it would make to western Canada. In the Prairies, it would increase the amount of farmland and rangeland available by well over 50%. There would be room for 2-3 more major prairie cities. The Pacific coast of Canada would receive a huge boost. I imagine there would be a major megalopolis extending from Vancouver south to Puget Sound.

Instead of 12M people living in western Canada, I imagine the population would be over 20M. This would be close to the 25M living in eastern Canada and would certainly change the power dynamic of confederation.........
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
...


Wouldn’t Bellingham likely have developed into BCs premier city if were part of Canada? Closer to the ocean, closer to the states, less constrained by mountains?
No, not necessarily, because Bellingham doesn't have as much land around it suitable for agriculture or development (the only suitable land spreads to the north), and Vancouver's harbour is better.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 6:04 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Very likely alot of Canadian growth would have gone to points further south with a milder winter. Toronto would have succeeded regardless but be a significantly smaller city than it is today.

Agree that Britain screwed its remaining American colonies (Province of Canada, Nova Scotia, etc) in 1783. They negotiated away so much prime territory. And it's no better today. In 2020, Canada should be the face of the Commonwealth in North America. The reality is that Britain, Australia, India, etc see the US and we're a peculiar after thought they no next to nothing about. Being in the Commonwealth has NO benefits whatsoever.
British Columbia was origianlly part of a territory that stretched down to the California border. Far more likely would have been Washington state and Oregon remaining part of Canada.

The focus on building the Canadian Pacific railway and keeping it so far south was to have a Canadian presence and provide a basis to justify having the Canadian boarder so far south. I think the terminus for the Canadian Pacific would have been as far south as possible.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 1:59 PM
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Waterfront locations are generally prefered over inland, so all that population that has grown eastward into Abby and Chilliwack would likely end up along the coast from Blaine down into Bellingham.

There's also a lot of land masses between Bellingham and Victoria, so maybe a fixed link to the Island originating in Bellingham. That would give both Bellingham and Victoria a population boost.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 7:48 PM
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Nah...I didn't realize how close the 49th is to the 48th.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 10:54 PM
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Nah...I didn't realize how close the 49th is to the 48th.
68.61 mi (110.42 km) between 49th - 48th parallel
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