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  #81  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 7:58 AM
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I enjoyed my time on transit in Portland, but when I took it, I did not have those moments of "OMG, why doesn't Canada do what Portland is doing?!?!?" except for the part that riding it within the Downtown core is free. Besides, that station near their IKEA and Target? Or the one near Lloyd Center? Not particularly pedestrian friendly, if you ask me.
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  #82  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 2:30 PM
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portland has some good TOD

the pearl district:




this area down by a hospital and the tram and where the street car goes and a new LRT line will cross the river near this area - i am not sure what they call it but its a pretty cool area
So it's just a TOD with a lot less people and a lot less things to do?

I like the gondola/cable car though. Burnaby is considering doing one up to SFU on the mountain.
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  #83  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 3:27 PM
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I would really like to visit Portland as it seems to have a cool vibe (and awesome beer), but I get the impression that it may not live up to it's urbanist transit-oriented hype. The Pearl looks great but it isn't the type of TOD that was talked about above. The much touted Orenco station development looks great in the promos that feature this view:

http://goo.gl/maps/uXueD

But zoom out and it's a bit of a different story. In any event I assume the best parts of the city have little to do with these new developments. Bike infrastructure looks great too.

I would be interested in seeing what ssiguy is referring to though. It may be that the low-rise nature of TODs in the US greater reflects land values and a lack of interest in highrise living rather than simply good planning policy. The descriptions also sound a lot more like the traditional Northeast coast commuter rail town centre type thing with a historic core and new infill. Which is preferable to almost any greenfield TOD but not exactly comparable.
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  #84  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 5:21 PM
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I have heard Oregon is fantastic. Portland and Seattle are my two top future US destinations, though, due to pressure from friends, Vegas will probably be my first US destination.
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  #85  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 5:31 PM
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portland is awesome if i could move to oregon i would in a heartbeat

i don't see how vancouver's TOD is any better or worse than what they are doing in portland - scott road, 22nd, renfrew, 29th ave, nanaimo, etc etc stations are all unpedestrian friendly at this rate of what you guts expect from TOD
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  #86  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 5:35 PM
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and I'd imagine that Portland is the US's model TOD city considering I've never heard of a real TOD anywhere else in the states.

I agreed with his point at first, but upon seeing the examples shown, I would assert that Canada's TOD are better, because they are the exact same, only Canada's have much higher density.
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  #87  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
portland is awesome if i could move to oregon i would in a heartbeat

i don't see how vancouver's TOD is any better or worse than what they are doing in portland - scott road, 22nd, renfrew, 29th ave, nanaimo, etc etc stations are all unpedestrian friendly at this rate of what you guts expect from TOD
There is far more TOD occurring n Metro Vancouver than there is in Metro Portland, there is no match to the scale.

Of course every single station along a 3 line system is not gong to be a great example for TOD.

No one ever claimed that!
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  #88  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
portland is awesome if i could move to oregon i would in a heartbeat

i don't see how vancouver's TOD is any better or worse than what they are doing in portland - scott road, 22nd, renfrew, 29th ave, nanaimo, etc etc stations are all unpedestrian friendly at this rate of what you guts expect from TOD
There has been virtually no TOD built around those stations unfortunately, I don't know why you would bring them up. Stations like Joyce, Edmonds, Gilmore, Holdom, Brentwood, Gateway, King George, Patterson etc are examples of good TOD.
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  #89  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 8:12 PM
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there is absolutely no transit-oriented development in London, Ontario. Nothing. Here, we like to build shops with their back-end facing the street, so that parking lots enjoy the better view. London is quite possibly the most auto-centric of the big dozen cities in Canada.


Seattle's mass transit is terrible (maybe it has improved since my trips in the mid-late nineties). There was an underground busline with 8 stops, and a rump of a monorail (leftover from the world fair).
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  #90  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 8:56 PM
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I kinda hate Seattle's transit system. I don't understand it at all. I don't get why I can't use my light rail pass when I want to take a bus. I don't get why they don't have an all-day bus pass. I don't get why I pay when I *leave* the bus. Also, their light rail stations are basically in the middle of nowhere. I don't get it.
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  #91  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 9:00 PM
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Massive proposal for Surrey's King George station.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhausner View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
  1. 300,000sf is slated to be retail, with 500,000sf as commercial, which is quite a lot.
  2. 180,000 should anchor 300,000 SF of office, making the office space a go
  3. 1,700 is supposed to be spread over 3 towers. This is huge. An average residential tower is about an 8,000sf floorplate. Assuming a 80% sellable efficency this allows for 6,400 sf of sellable per floor. With an average unit size of 700 SF (arbitrarily chosen) that allows for about 9 units per floor, or a total of 186 floors. Over 3 towers this allows for 3 62 floor towers or one very tall tower with a two taller towers next to it as it appears in the rendering.
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  #92  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 10:30 PM
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So it's just a TOD with a lot less people and a lot less things to do?

I like the gondola/cable car though. Burnaby is considering doing one up to SFU on the mountain.
the pearl district is full of parks, cafes, restaurans, shops and grocery stores, the south waterfront is only at the first stages of development, when i was there it was very busy, a lot of medical buildings, shops and cafes already there

portland has at least kept its industrualized areas and doesn't feel the need to change em all to residential like vancouver has done, you can actually use transit to get to work in portland, the IKEA may not be built up but you can't beat having the station in its parking lot
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  #93  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 10:31 PM
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Actually in the render it shows 4 towers, once shorter one just nubbing up right behind Coast Capital building.


It's funny that SpongeG brough up only the worst of the worst stations in the Skytrain system as examples of how bad Vancouver's pedestrian friendliness is, and brings up only Portlands one good TOD as an example of why US TODs are better. So, 5 stations out of 47 make the Metro Vancouver TOD network a right off? You do know all of those stations except Scott Road are in established neighbourhoods that wouldn't be demolished without a fight... right? Where Metro Vancouver builds TODs are in derelict lots (hence the new proposal in Edmonds to take out the VV and Pawn Shop), and businesses like grocery and department stores, not established neighborhoods, not often at least.
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  #94  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by memememe76 View Post
I kinda hate Seattle's transit system. I don't understand it at all. I don't get why I can't use my light rail pass when I want to take a bus. I don't get why they don't have an all-day bus pass. I don't get why I pay when I *leave* the bus. Also, their light rail stations are basically in the middle of nowhere. I don't get it.
because they don't have one transit system they have multiple systems with different authorities - same with san francisco they have busses that serve marin county for instance that run through san francisco city itself but aren't part of that city, the bart system is separate from the muni system etc etc.

we are pretty lucky in vancouver where translink covers everything from busses to seabus and skytrain
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  #95  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 10:33 PM
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There has been virtually no TOD built around those stations unfortunately, I don't know why you would bring them up. Stations like Joyce, Edmonds, Gilmore, Holdom, Brentwood, Gateway, King George, Patterson etc are examples of good TOD.
because someone brought up stations in portland that have no TOD

we all know about the TOD in vancouver
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  #96  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 10:36 PM
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Actually in the render it shows 4 towers, once shorter one just nubbing up right behind Coast Capital building.


It's funny that SpongeG brough up only the worst of the worst stations in the Skytrain system as examples of how bad Vancouver's pedestrian friendliness is, and brings up only Portlands one good TOD as an example of why US TODs are better. So, 5 stations out of 47 make the Metro Vancouver TOD network a right off? You do know all of those stations except Scott Road are in established neighbourhoods that wouldn't be demolished without a fight... right? Where Metro Vancouver builds TODs are in derelict lots (hence the new proposal in Edmonds to take out the VV and Pawn Shop), and businesses like grocery and department stores, not established neighborhoods, not often at least.
once again that wasn't my point - the other person brought up portland's lack of TOD i happen to think portlands system and TOD developing is great - it is much younger than Vancouver's and it only goes to point out the difference in lifestyles between canadians and americans

vancouver is not perfect but its a lot better and has been doing it a lot longer than most cities in Canada and America, most cities in the states are only a decade into developing transit options that encourage people to leave their cars behind
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  #97  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 10:36 PM
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the pearl district is full of parks, cafes, restaurans, shops and grocery stores, the south waterfront is only at the first stages of development, when i was there it was very busy, a lot of medical buildings, shops and cafes already there

portland has at least kept its industrualized areas and doesn't feel the need to change em all to residential like vancouver has done, you can actually use transit to get to work in portland, the IKEA may not be built up but you can't beat having the station in its parking lot
Yep, Yaletown has all that too, plus bars, clubs, theatres, historic neighbourhoods right next door, the ocean. Many parks, a beautiful sea wall, a harbour, the only thing it doesn't have are numerous medical buildings I guess.

Why is Portland keeping its brownlands a good thing? You would rather have kept half of the downtown peninsula as a toxic industrial wasteland where false creek isn't even habitable?
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  #98  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 10:41 PM
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well not everyone is a white colour employee working in an office tower downtown, maybe in your circle of friends, but i am working class and most people i know are and work in light industry, medical or the service industry and those kinds of businesses are not situated downtown, they are on the outskirts of towns that are underserved by transit

vancouver has lost a lot of businesses to the suburbs who have the type of land they need and thats why there is such a large reverse commute here, people actually need to leave the city to get to work

of course its nice that vancouver has become what it has but it has lost a lot of tax base becaus eit can no longer cater to a lot of businesses and industries cause it lost all that land and the suburbs/surrounding cities have been more than happy to house them

a lot of shiny happy condos only makes the city more of a resort city than a working city
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  #99  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 11:23 PM
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I'm confused. I thought TOD in the US consisted of "Low rise apts, high density housing, townhomes all centred around a very pleasant walkable communtiy with small shops, cafes, restaurants, and community amenities". Not industry.

If Vancouver is becoming a "resort city", why would that be alienating and unwalkable? How is that functional?

And if you work in the medical industry, I don't see why Skytrain isn't serving your needs. King George Stn, Burrard Stn, City Hall (or whatever it's called) Stn, Brighouse Stn and Sapperton Stn are near major hospitals.
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 11:31 PM
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omg people stop nerding out

portland has some TOD you asked for examples i provided two - the pearl district and the South Waterfront are two examples of TOD in the USA

end of story

other people said i never mentioned some stations in Vancouver because I assumed everyone already knows of all the TOD in Vancouver

I personally like Portlands transit system and how it has retained its industrial areas, business areas and residential areas and that they are well served by LRT transit - the new orange line (opening in 2015) for portland will go into SE portland and serve that area well - it appears from the videos i have watched that it is industrial and home to 1100 businesses or something like that in that part of town - it will pass through the newly created TOD area of the south waterfront which will house businesses and condos alike - this area as only started developing in the past few years because of transit coming and serving the area

is that not the text book definitition of TOD?
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