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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 4:55 AM
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There's a couple new ones on Kingsway that aren't at stations, but one or two of them are within a 10 to 20 minute walk I believe.

Vancouver is definitely the leader. What an amazing metropolitan area by North American Standards, so many people living right next to the transit that connects the area, very cool. Once the Evergreen Line is finished, the skytrain system will be longer than the Montreal Metro and several other metros in cities over twice the size (and by cities I obviously mean metropolitan areas).

for such a small city I'd say Calgary is doing really well in the TOD aspect of things as well. Westbrook TOD opened years before the station did, and I'm pretty sure they plan on doubling or tripling the size of that TOD, Brentwood is building theirs (the pic I just showed earlier today), a major one of being designed for Chinook, London at Heritage Station is up and running and the 3rd and 4th towers have been approved.... a lot is going on here as well
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 5:06 AM
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I think Metro Vancouver is being very clever in directing lots of the population growth into transit-friendly areas. It's a sign of a forward-thinking city and one of the reasons I chose to move into Vancouver.

I wish cities like Edmonton and Calgary, which are both growing very fast right now, would do the same, as for them these would be the wealthy decades to reduce their car-dependency and build some real cityscape. There are few projects ongoing, but surely the scale is way too small.
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 5:18 AM
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I wouldn't say the scale is small in Calgary... or Edmonton even. Edmonton has lots of "town centre" plans in the works with large beautiful towers around their LRT stations. I didn't even mention half of Calgary's TODs in my last post. It's nowhere near Vancouver... but what city on the continent is close to Vancouver with transit oriented developments? I'd say Calgary is in the top 10 in North America at least. Does anyone know anything about how widespread TODs are in the states? I haven't heard much.
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 6:07 AM
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^
This is just my own opinion but from what I see this kind of development is not the norm of TOD in the US. Canadians have a unique love affair with highrises which the US doesn't. Most TOD in the states tend to be smaller scale and more like the kind you would find in old town centres. Low rise condo/aprt, townhomes, SFH with very small lots and garages are laneway accessed so front porches are up against the street, local streets with small shops, grocery stores, schools, library all built around the local transit station. Much smaller in scale and I think much more walkable.

I much prefer the American model. The density isn't as high but they have a very pleasant neighbourhood and community feel. Go to different areas in Canada like Vancouver's Metrotown or Toronto's North York and the density is very high but the areas are nothing but highrises up against a transit station. They maybe excellent for transit use but are still alienating, unattractive, uninspired with no sense of community or walkability. Certainly people in Metrotown don't need a car but it's "downtown" is just another large mall with the same stores you get everywhere else on the planet. The only pedestrian traffic is those walking to and from the station or mall but the area is quite bland.

Canadian cities certainly have got the density part of TOD right but these are just stations with people living around them....just a bucnh of highrises that instead of being scattered are plunked down right beside one another. A liveable lifestyle but not a very likeable one. Canadaian TOD seems concerned on developing density but American TOD seems equally concerned with density but that the area also has a sense of community, walkability, and cohension.
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 11:07 AM
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I think TOD is really one area where Vancouver is a clear leader for the entire country. Vanman has been doing a great job highlighting the ongoing TOD projects in Metro Vancouver and a big thanks to him.


Some recent updates:

Vantage
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Station Square site prep
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The parkade gives a gives a great overview of the demolition.



Sovereign
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Metrotower III
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Solo District
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Dec 13, 2012



Surrey City Hall
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 11:58 AM
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Some Coquitlam developments that will be served by skytrain in 2016 when the Evergreen line finally opens:

Evergreen
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M3
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
^
This is just my own opinion but from what I see this kind of development is not the norm of TOD in the US. Canadians have a unique love affair with highrises which the US doesn't. Most TOD in the states tend to be smaller scale and more like the kind you would find in old town centres. Low rise condo/aprt, townhomes, SFH with very small lots and garages are laneway accessed so front porches are up against the street, local streets with small shops, grocery stores, schools, library all built around the local transit station. Much smaller in scale and I think much more walkable.

I much prefer the American model. The density isn't as high but they have a very pleasant neighbourhood and community feel. Go to different areas in Canada like Vancouver's Metrotown or Toronto's North York and the density is very high but the areas are nothing but highrises up against a transit station. They maybe excellent for transit use but are still alienating, unattractive, uninspired with no sense of community or walkability. Certainly people in Metrotown don't need a car but it's "downtown" is just another large mall with the same stores you get everywhere else on the planet. The only pedestrian traffic is those walking to and from the station or mall but the area is quite bland.

Canadian cities certainly have got the density part of TOD right but these are just stations with people living around them....just a bucnh of highrises that instead of being scattered are plunked down right beside one another. A liveable lifestyle but not a very likeable one. Canadaian TOD seems concerned on developing density but American TOD seems equally concerned with density but that the area also has a sense of community, walkability, and cohension.
I actually agree on the part of many Canadian TODs being unwalkable or at least not the most pedestrian friendly. But I can't really comment on the American part since I have never seen or been to one yet. I will say though, that Calgary's plan for Country Hills Village is quite walkable and pedestrian friendly. Hopefully the plan comes to fruition. I also believe Country Hills LRT station will be underground if memory serves.
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 8:00 PM
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American TOD, to use an anology, would be more like Calgary's Sunnyside station. Low rise apts, high density housing, townhomes all centred around a very pleasant walkable communtiy with small shops, cafes, restaurants, and community amenities, Canada's tend to be more Asian oriented with hyper density of uniform stell and glass 30 storey towers built around a mall. American TOD are areas people from outside the community would like to go to for a stroll or coffee while Canadian ones are just convient places to live.

Candian ones are certainly transit oriented but not very endearing borderline alienating with ussually no redeaming features except being near a transit station and certainly not what is considered to be "new urbanism". Functional but little beyond that. I think American TOD is a far better example of truee TOD with community building at it's core and an area where Canada could learn from the US about modern and sustainable urban planning.
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 8:10 PM
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Coquitlam looks like it's getting towers that would be worthy of big city downtowns (with exception of the more suburban lacklustre podiums) I love the mosaic crown on M3. That's exactly what Pemberton should have done with Uptown Residences in Toronto.
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 8:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
American TOD, to use an anology, would be more like Calgary's Sunnyside station. Low rise apts, high density housing, townhomes all centred around a very pleasant walkable communtiy with small shops, cafes, restaurants, and community amenities, Canada's tend to be more Asian oriented with hyper density of uniform stell and glass 30 storey towers built around a mall. American TOD are areas people from outside the community would like to go to for a stroll or coffee while Canadian ones are just convient places to live.

Candian ones are certainly transit oriented but not very endearing borderline alienating with ussually no redeaming features except being near a transit station and certainly not what is considered to be "new urbanism". Functional but little beyond that. I think American TOD is a far better example of truee TOD with community building at it's core and an area where Canada could learn from the US about modern and sustainable urban planning.
Hmmm interesting. I guess you are right. Canada just doesn't like to "create" new pedestrian friendly neighbourhoods, just plop towers down wherever an LRT station shows up. The one reason Sunnyside station is a functional TOD area is because the Kensington neighbourhood was already an established pedestrian neighbourhood with an artsy vibe... and even the buildings they are putting up now continue that context(such as Pixel which I believe will have a nice retail podium)
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 8:29 PM
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Is it not logical to have the highest densities closest to rapid transit for the most efficent use of infrastructure? There are still plenty of lowrises, townhomes, duplexes, and even single family homes within most of Vancouver's town centres anyways. If we're going to be serious about curbing urban sprawl, lowering carbon emissions, and moving people around the region effectively, quaint density near rapid transit is not gonna cut it.
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 8:35 PM
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I dunno, I think TOD (Transit Oriented Development) has improved in Canada since Metrotown and Brentwood. We need to give these developments time to mature and fill in.

You cant really use metrotown as an all-encompasing example of Vancouver TOD's It was built in the 80's and is surrounded by parking lots.

TOD's need to have a good mix of low and high rise while respecting the angles of the sun so they dont become too shaded. Too much low rise (even though I love it) makes for low density.

I wouldnt write Calgary, Edmonton or Vancouver off just yet. They are learning form old mistakes and working to improve, not makes things worse. And for cities of 1 million, Calgary and Edmonton have very dense downtown areas which are fully serviced by transit. LRT in downtown Calgary runs basically right down the centre and services everything. I cant wait for the next 10 years in Calgary, so many good changes happening.

Even the crappy Crowfoot Town Centre area has began to build up and fill in a bit.

Now if we can just get them to build up the Franklin Park and Ride. The views are amazing!!
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 8:42 PM
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Metrotown and Brentwood are now fixing those mistakes of the past by replacing parking lots with some very impressive residential. commercial, and office complexes.

So they will not be examples of 80's TOD for long...

Already been major improvements.
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 9:30 PM
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Can someone provide an example of this American ideal? I can't ever recall such splendid TOD when I travel via transit in the US.

And I don't know, Main, Olympic Village, Waterfront and Yaletown are stations that I think plenty of folks will go to just to walk (as they're near the Seawall) and grab a coffee. New Westminster, if they can figure out a way to make Quay work, can eventually be another type of station. I think King Edward might be another if they can make it easier (or more interesting, at least) to get to QE Park.

Although, not sure why having low rise apartment buildings makes the neighbourhood less pedestrian friendly and more alienating than high rise buildings.

Quote:
He's not talking about the low rises making it more pedestrian friendly, he's just equating the American model with more pedestrian friendly neighbourhoods where there are shops and restaurants and stuff instead of sprawing parking lots.
I fail to see how this is an accurate depiction of Canadian TOD (or Asian, for that matter).

And a bit of a weird criticism, even if true. Let's use Metrotown as an example. Even if they were not going to reconfigure the parking lots, the fact is is that there exists a viable alternative to going to that shopping centre that lots of people use. If Seattle's light rail system connected to, say, Southcenter or Northgate or University Village, that'd be great, even if there were all those sprawling parking lots still in existence.

Last edited by memememe76; Dec 17, 2012 at 9:45 PM.
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 9:30 PM
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I dunno, I think TOD (Transit Oriented Development) has improved in Canada since Metrotown and Brentwood. We need to give these developments time to mature and fill in.

You cant really use metrotown as an all-encompasing example of Vancouver TOD's It was built in the 80's and is surrounded by parking lots.

TOD's need to have a good mix of low and high rise while respecting the angles of the sun so they dont become too shaded. Too much low rise (even though I love it) makes for low density.

I wouldnt write Calgary, Edmonton or Vancouver off just yet. They are learning form old mistakes and working to improve, not makes things worse. And for cities of 1 million, Calgary and Edmonton have very dense downtown areas which are fully serviced by transit. LRT in downtown Calgary runs basically right down the centre and services everything. I cant wait for the next 10 years in Calgary, so many good changes happening.

Even the crappy Crowfoot Town Centre area has began to build up and fill in a bit.

Now if we can just get them to build up the Franklin Park and Ride. The views are amazing!!
Yeah With the SE line going underground through downtown, it will finally connect the central beltline with the rest of downtown transit! Going to be awesome instead of having to walk fifteen blocks to get to 17 ave we'll only have to walk 7! and there's a lot of really cool bars opening up on 10 ave as well
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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2012, 9:34 PM
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He's not talking about the low rises making it more pedestrian friendly, he's just equating the American model with more pedestrian friendly neighbourhoods where there are shops and restaurants and stuff instead of sprawing parking lots. I agree that that in a way is great, but it should be combined with the Canadian model (which in many places it is) of very high density towers with livable and enjoyable street level experience.
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 6:23 AM
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I think that we are moving towards more walkabe TODss very fast. Most of the new towers in Vancouver are no longer towers in a park and have podiums with retail. Downtown Coquitlam is doing very well in this regard and the lager scale TODs like the SOLO district, Station Square, Oakridge, and Brentwood are Pedestrian oriented while keeping large towers. Suter Brook is a nice walkable TOD just north of the future Ioco station on the evergreen line that still keep the large towers in play.
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 6:38 AM
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Can someone provide an example of this American ideal? I can't ever recall such splendid TOD when I travel via transit in the US.

And I don't know, Main, Olympic Village, Waterfront and Yaletown are stations that I think plenty of folks will go to just to walk (as they're near the Seawall) and grab a coffee. New Westminster, if they can figure out a way to make Quay work, can eventually be another type of station. I think King Edward might be another if they can make it easier (or more interesting, at least) to get to QE Park.

Although, not sure why having low rise apartment buildings makes the neighbourhood less pedestrian friendly and more alienating than high rise buildings.



I fail to see how this is an accurate depiction of Canadian TOD (or Asian, for that matter).

And a bit of a weird criticism, even if true. Let's use Metrotown as an example. Even if they were not going to reconfigure the parking lots, the fact is is that there exists a viable alternative to going to that shopping centre that lots of people use. If Seattle's light rail system connected to, say, Southcenter or Northgate or University Village, that'd be great, even if there were all those sprawling parking lots still in existence.
portland has some good TOD

the pearl district:




this area down by a hospital and the tram and where the street car goes and a new LRT line will cross the river near this area - i am not sure what they call it but its a pretty cool area
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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 7:05 AM
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I don't see how The Pearl District is any different from Yaletown.
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2012, 7:31 AM
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it's the same but only came about in the last 10 years when the streetcar route started going through it and the new max line goes through it now too

and is touted by TOD enthusiasts as a TOD that has worked


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