HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2121  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 2:56 AM
craner's Avatar
craner craner is online now
Go Tall or Go Home
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,733
I know we had this discussion about the Kicking Horse Phase 4 schedule a while ago - must have been in the BC section.
The fall 2020 start has been the plan for at least a year now.

Here is a good link:
http://https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/kicking-horse-canyon-project/kicking-horse-canyon-phase-4/kicking-horse-canyon-project-overview

When they are done in 2024 it will have taken 21 years to twin 26kms of the TCH. At this rate I’ll have to live to be about 300 years old to see the national highway fully twinned through BC. And still no interchange in Golden (or Field or Salmon Arm West, or ...).

I am excited about Kicking Horse Phase 4 though - going to be cool to see.

Last edited by craner; Jun 2, 2020 at 3:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2122  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 3:12 PM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Road Engineer Wannabe
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Côté Ouest de la Rivière des Outaouais
Posts: 8,222
For anyone that's interested about Quebec's Autoroute 85 construction, I've finally found the map of the current and proposed route.
From Rivière-du-Loup to Saint-Honoré-de-Témiscouata:
https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr...85-Carte-1.pdf

From Saint-Honoré-de-Témiscouata to Saint-Louis-du-Ha!-Ha!:
https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr...85-Carte-2.pdf
__________________
My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2123  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 4:25 PM
Mazrim's Avatar
Mazrim Mazrim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmuzika View Post
I got the impression from the Calgary Herald article from last fall that closures would start this spring, but re-reading the article it mentioned that construction would begin this year and closures would be permitted Apr 1-May 15 and Sept 15-Nov 30; nothing specifically saying that it would be closed sometime between April 1-May 15, 2020.
This doesn't mean they couldn't be working around the road when it's open, though. That's why I'm surprised they aren't starting in the summer. They can make detours for the road to keep it open and get some work done. Those closure dates are very short in construction terms so there's no way to get it all done in those short times.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2124  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 4:27 PM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Road Engineer Wannabe
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Côté Ouest de la Rivière des Outaouais
Posts: 8,222
Making detours for KHC Phase 4? Can cars (especially trucks) go down the cliff into the river below and climb back up safely??
Or do you mean closing 1 lane and alternate traffic?
__________________
My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2125  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 4:40 PM
Mazrim's Avatar
Mazrim Mazrim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Making detours for KHC Phase 4? Can cars (especially trucks) go down the cliff into the river below and climb back up safely??
Or do you mean closing 1 lane and alternate traffic?
If you drove through the canyon during the Park bridge phase, you'll have a pretty good idea of how they can move the road around. Narrowing the road, shuffling it over where there's room, and intermittent lane closures for short duration. They even pulled those off in areas where the hillside was literally falling apart from the construction.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2126  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 4:45 PM
Mazrim's Avatar
Mazrim Mazrim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,403
On a related note - I do have a lot of memories of sitting on the hood of my car while waiting for blasting, approaching what is now the truck stop at the top of the Park Bridge hill. They would close the highway for 30 minutes to an hour and traffic backed up a ton from that. When you were sitting on the old hill climb, you really saw just how old that stretch was and I always impressed how these old timber walls held up the road for so long.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2127  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 9:48 PM
dmuzika dmuzika is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazrim View Post
If you drove through the canyon during the Park bridge phase, you'll have a pretty good idea of how they can move the road around. Narrowing the road, shuffling it over where there's room, and intermittent lane closures for short duration. They even pulled those off in areas where the hillside was literally falling apart from the construction.
Might be a bit tricky in Phase 4. The Park Bridge was an outright realignment (the highway rejoins the old alignment at the rest stop). Phase 4 is mostly be an expansion of the existing alignment with some new bridges and rock cuts; no major realignments. I think there will still be construction work, but outright closures are only permitted spring/fall.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2128  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2020, 5:29 AM
Bobert Bobert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmuzika View Post
Might be a bit tricky in Phase 4. The Park Bridge was an outright realignment (the highway rejoins the old alignment at the rest stop). Phase 4 is mostly be an expansion of the existing alignment with some new bridges and rock cuts; no major realignments. I think there will still be construction work, but outright closures are only permitted spring/fall.
Depending on the blasting work that is required, I think there will be minimal closures as well. With the original tunneled approach there would have been more closures.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2129  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2020, 8:08 AM
flipper316 flipper316 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 863

Last edited by flipper316; Jun 18, 2020 at 8:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2130  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2020, 7:31 PM
craner's Avatar
craner craner is online now
Go Tall or Go Home
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,733
Thanks for posting those flipper.

Effin’ at-grade intersections for left-hand turns.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2131  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2020, 7:56 PM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Road Engineer Wannabe
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Côté Ouest de la Rivière des Outaouais
Posts: 8,222
Yea have fun dealing with B.C.M.I.T. I'm done with B.C. highways, and I'm better off mapping out the freeway routes in Ontario where M.T.O. has done no planning whatsoever.
For example, between Kenora and Willard Lake, in the middle of Lake of the Woods:
https://imgur.com/a/fiPkEF4
Then from Willard Lake to Vermillion Bay:
https://imgur.com/a/WxFjzuE
I was actually pretty surprised that I ended up tackling the most challenging section west of T Bay first.

Legends:
Red colour = proposed 4-lane divided freeway
Black colour = emergency detour route (EDR)
__________________
My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2132  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2020, 8:02 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Yea have fun dealing with B.C.M.I.T. I'm done with B.C. highways, and I'm better off mapping out the freeway routes in Ontario where M.T.O. has done no planning whatsoever.
For example, between Kenora and Willard Lake, in the middle of Lake of the Woods:
https://imgur.com/a/fiPkEF4
Then from Willard Lake to Vermillion Bay:
https://imgur.com/a/WxFjzuE
I was actually pretty surprised that I ended up tackling the most challenging section west of T Bay first.

Legends:
Red colour = proposed 4-lane divided freeway
Black colour = emergency detour route (EDR)
Just charge the MTO a consult fee when they actually start planning.

"Look! I already did the work for you guys!"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2133  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2020, 1:28 AM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
I am a typical
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 41,172
It's one thing to draw the lines, it's another to know what's underneath those lines. Building highways up here isn't the easiest task.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2134  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2020, 2:20 AM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Road Engineer Wannabe
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Côté Ouest de la Rivière des Outaouais
Posts: 8,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
It's one thing to draw the lines, it's another to know what's underneath those lines. Building highways up here isn't the easiest task.
@swimmer_spe and I have had extensive talks about that when I used to try to “plan” the route for NEO. Then I was like, “Forget it, I’m gonna work with T Bay and points west first. It looks like I only have to worry about granites and muskegs.” (In NEO, I also have to watch out for fault lines and craters and on top of them, numerous settlements...)

I do admit it’s more or less a shot in the dark right now though. Lol, if you read check the Manitoba Highway thread, you’ll find out that I was trying to recruit help. Then again swimmer_spe said that route planning (by me) in NEO (other than those already finalized by M.T.O.) is a shot in the dark too.

Maybe one of the proposed routes is feasible, which will be great. Maybe none of them works. I showed that drawing in Google terrain map so it’s easier for locals like you(?) to identify potential issues right away.

By the way, do you remember how the alignment for Shabaqua - T Bay freeway goes? I can guess the part between Twin City and a bit south of Sistonens Corners, but after that, I can’t.
__________________
My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2135  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2020, 4:44 AM
flipper316 flipper316 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 863
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...t-bc-1.5505159

CBC comment sections are usually pretty toxic but this article is an exception. Several people in agreement that this highway sucks. Just like us on here.

Edit

Now its closed east of Revelstoke as well . https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/304...hursday#304276
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2136  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2020, 2:09 AM
manny_santos's Avatar
manny_santos manny_santos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Westminster
Posts: 4,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipper316 View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...t-bc-1.5505159

CBC comment sections are usually pretty toxic but this article is an exception. Several people in agreement that this highway sucks. Just like us on here.

Edit

Now its closed east of Revelstoke as well . https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/304...hursday#304276
I was affected by that, although I came through today after the section east of Revelstoke re-opened. Still, it took me 3 hours to get from Golden to Revelstoke.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2137  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2020, 2:12 AM
manny_santos's Avatar
manny_santos manny_santos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Westminster
Posts: 4,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
At least now I know that I don’t have to decide my routes in Medicine Hat until Fall for my hypothetical crosscountry trip.
Actually, where’s mannysantos? This will be useful information for him!
Funny, I never checked out this thread until today. How did I miss this??!

Medicine Hat badly needs a bypass. And I think the Perimeter Highway in Winnipeg leaves a lot to be desired.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2138  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 7:56 AM
flipper316 flipper316 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 863
Just gets worse and worse. Why does BC suck so much at building highways?

https://www.timescolonist.com/opinio...obs-1.24164995

Nobody ever said building highways in B.C. would be easy. But New Democrats seem to be going out of their way to make the ventures as expensive and time-consuming as possible.

There was an exchange last week in the legislature between past and present highways ministers that delved into this phenomenon.

It was on the topic of four-laning the Trans-Canada Highway east of Kamloops.

Liberal critic Todd Stone, the former minister, faced off against Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Claire Trevena.

The overall project of extending the four-lane sections from Kamloops to the Alberta border has been underway for years. But it will still take another billion dollars over the next three years to complete. Judging by performance to date, those cost and time figures are very loose estimates.

The Opposition suspects the community benefits agreement the NDP government created to mandate fairer hiring on public job sites is a big reason. It set up a new Crown corporation to act as a hiring hall and stipulates mandatory membership in select unions for anyone looking for work on the project.

Trevena was not interested in talking about the new cost those deals impose, only the benefits they are supposed to create.

But the deals appear to be driving some of the scope-shrink and cost-creep that Vancouver Sun columnist Vaughn Palmer identified earlier.

In one specific phase, said Stone, the original plan for 9.9 contiguous kilometres of four-laning (Hoffman’s Bluff-Jade Mountain) has turned into a 4.9-kilometre job that will cost $61 million more that the original $199 million estimate.

There’s one less interchange and an emergency access has been skipped. One stretch has been postponed because there’s no accommodation agreement with a resident First Nation. That means millions in federal money is off the table for the time being.

Trevena said the original plan was a “conceptual design … The figures were definitely not solid.

“I think what we have now is the realistic budget … What was proffered before, unfortunately, wasn’t grounded in a foundation.”

She took pains to note that Stone was responsible for the original estimate.

That was in 2015, which means it’s taken five years to plan and re-plan what turns out to be 4.9 kilometres of road.

Stone said it was ready to go in 2017, but Trevena suspended all work on that job, as she did on the Massey Tunnel replacement.

“Of course the costs are going to go up when you delay a major highway construction project by three years,” he said.

Even Trevena had to concede “there’s a sense of frustration” in the community about the delay.

Further along the road, Liberal MLA Greg Kyllo (Shuswap) had a similar story about the Salmon Arm section.

It was originally announced by the Liberals in 2016 as a six-kilometre-long paving job for $162.7 million.

Now it’s been scaled back to 3.3 kilometres and the price estimate has jumped to $184.7 million.

It’s currently out to tender. One section has been postponed because there’s no accommodation agreement with a resident First Nation. That means millions in federal money is off the table for the time being.

Trevena said they did due diligence on the project and were facing a hot construction market that drove up prices.

There are no cost figures for exactly how much community benefits agreements are adding to the road jobs. More accurately, the cost of the agreements is not being made public.

The goal is worthy — spur the employment of local people, Indigenous people and under-represented groups, by taking more control of the hiring process.

But that goal has been widely adopted in construction for several years.

If the government was trying to make more room in an all-white male industry it would be a different story.

But the industry was already broadening its hiring, partly due to the labour shortage. Until the difference in diversity is made clear, it’s hard to see how community benefit agreements are worth the costs.

Just So You Know: There’s one thing the Trans-Canada Highway projects can save money on. They won’t have to bother putting up the “Completed on time and on budget” billboards if they ever finish the work.

lleyne@timescolonist.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2139  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2020, 4:01 PM
Dengler Avenue's Avatar
Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is online now
Road Engineer Wannabe
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Côté Ouest de la Rivière des Outaouais
Posts: 8,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
In Ontario, IMO, the Arnprior-Renfrew section (from Division Street to Highway 60) should be put up almost immediately (it would likely only take about 2 years to construct, so they don't even need to start it until late next year to get a 2013 completion date). Due to the lack of any real expensive bridges, that whole 22 km section should be done at once. The only real challenge is some blasting between Miller Road and the abandoned CNR overpass where it skirts the edge of the valley plains.

Given the relative low costs, the Pembroke and Petawawa bypasses (32 km, probably in 2 contracts) could be twinned as well before the new alignment east of Muskrat Lake (which would create a gap). By 2019, there would be a full freeway at least as far as the end of Petawawa, or a total length of about 295 km in Ontario (including about 115 km of new construction). Of the remaining sections up to CFB Petawawa, my guess is the Renfrew bypass will be the most expensive as it also requires 2 new high-level bridges of the Bonnechere River.

How I would do that:

CR 29 to Division Street (Under construction) - Completion 2011
Division Street to Highway 60 - Start 2011/12, Completion 2013
Highway 60 to east of Storyland Road/CR 4 - Start 2014, Completion 2016
East of Storyland Road/CR 4 to Chenaux Road/CR 653 - Start 2015, Completion 2016
Chenaux Road/CR 653 to Greenwood Road/CR 40 - Start 2016, Completion 2018
Greenwood Road/CR 40 to Highway 41 - Start 2013, Completion 2014
Highway 41 to Forest Lea Road/CR 42 - Start 2015, Completion 2016
Forest Lea Road/CR 42 to Paquette Road/CR 55 - Start 2016, Completion 2017
Paquette Road/CR 55 to south end of currently undefined(?) Chalk River bypass - Start 2018, Completion 2019

The Chalk River bypass (would likely take 3 years to construct) and the Deep River bypass (would likely take 3-4 years to construct depending on bridge work necessary) would be funding-dependant and unlikely before the next decade unless others get moved up.
10 years later...
I was looking for information on Chalk River Bypass and Google led me here.
__________________
My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2140  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2020, 6:21 PM
flipper316 flipper316 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 863
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:04 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.