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  #3781  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 1:16 AM
lucx lucx is offline
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Originally Posted by accord1999 View Post
Most likely, Council is discussing it now. They just voted down Farkas's request for a plebiscite.
Green Line Stage 1 to 16 Ave is approved 14-1. You can guess who voted against.
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  #3782  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 1:24 AM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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  #3783  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 1:29 AM
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Calgary city council approved the Green Line LRT expansion Tuesday night.

Council voted to approve the revised alignment 14-1 following nearly a year of uncertainty about the expansion’s downtown path. Only Coun. Jeromy Farkas voted against the approval.
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-95c66c01376f/
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  #3784  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 1:53 AM
YYCguys YYCguys is offline
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Originally Posted by accord1999 View Post
Most likely, Council is discussing it now. They just voted down Farkas's request for a plebiscite.
A plebiscite would be difficult and expensive to conduct in these times of physical distancing and really quite unnecessary as we’ve “hired” this council to look out for our best interests and we should just let them get on with doing their job.
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  #3785  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 1:55 AM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Even though I passionately hate the surface section of the Green Line, I'm glad the entire project is continuing. I expect the story is not over yet though.

And yeah, just say no to plebiscites.
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  #3786  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 1:58 AM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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I do find it intriguing though that this seems to be about the third time that "The city of Calgary makes groundbreaking decision to move forward with the Green Line". Haven't we been here before?
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  #3787  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Even though I passionately hate the surface section of the Green Line, I'm glad the entire project is continuing. I expect the story is not over yet though.

And yeah, just say no to plebiscites.
Are you afraid that voters would see the current proposal for this project as a disaster in the making? Fear of losing ~$3.1 billion is overriding common sense and the possibility that this could end up costing Calgarians billions more than they've already stolen from us. I'm not against building the line just this version.
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  #3788  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:23 AM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Are you afraid that voters would see the current proposal for this project as a disaster in the making? Fear of losing ~$3.1 billion is overriding common sense and the possibility that this could end up costing Calgarians billions more than they've already stolen from us. I'm not against building the line just this version.
No plebiscites are just awful, the worst from of democracy. The people should never be allowed to make decisions as important as this. Even though city councils may not be the best run organizations, they are still far more informed than the plebs. Especially after an issue is put to them and it becomes hyper polarized with dishonest, idiotic talking points from both sides. If we let the Green Line go to the public it would be a more extreme version of the discussion today - the biggest morons on one side would say continuing with the project would result in the financial ruination of Calgary turning it into Detroit, whereas the biggest morons on the other side would say that the Green Line is the most wonderful project ever, literally perfect and to not build it would result in Calgary never building any physical infrastructure again.

I do make an exception for the Olympics though, as in the end it wasn't actually that important, more akin to asking "shall we throw a party or not?".
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  #3789  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:28 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
No plebiscites are just awful, the worst from of democracy. The people should never be allowed to make decisions as important as this. Even though city councils may not be the best run organizations, they are still far more informed than the plebs. Especially after an issue is put to them and it becomes hyper polarized with dishonest, idiotic talking points from both sides. If we let the Green Line go to the public it would be a more extreme version of the discussion today - the biggest morons on one side would say continuing with the project would result in the financial ruination of Calgary turning it into Detroit, whereas the biggest morons on the other side would say that the Green Line is the most wonderful project ever, literally perfect and to not build it would result in Calgary never building any physical infrastructure again.

I do make an exception for the Olympics though, as in the end it wasn't actually that important, more akin to asking "shall we throw a party or not?".
Hopefully this all gets fixed next October. We've gone from what could have been a quite impressive version in 2017 to what can only be described as a $5 billion embarrassment.
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  #3790  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:33 AM
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I'd call it a ~$4B good LRT line and ~$1B waste. While I dislike the north section and would prefer a fully grade separated line, the route from Eau Claire to the south is 10/10, IMO.
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  #3791  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:47 AM
accord1999 accord1999 is offline
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I do find it intriguing though that this seems to be about the third time that "The city of Calgary makes groundbreaking decision to move forward with the Green Line". Haven't we been here before?
I was thinking the same thing, if the project had gone as plan we wouldn't even need this vote. Yet social media is celebrating as though the Council vote is the hard part.
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  #3792  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I'd call it a ~$4B good LRT line and ~$1B waste. While I dislike the north section and would prefer a fully grade separated line, the route from Eau Claire to the south is 10/10, IMO.
If the S.E. line went all the way to Seton then it would be a good investment. If the City already has the right of way in the S.E. why is $1 billion not enough to go from Shepperd to Seton? Or is this $100 million/km figure being thrown around just supporter bullshit?
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  #3793  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 3:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Stakeholders in the Beltline prefer the original route on 10 and 12 Ave. They think there are ways to optimize cost and risk. During detailed design, if they find 10 and 12 Ave is cheaper than 11 Ave (doubtful), they would bring a revised route back for approval. Nenshi thought this was pointless and voted to remove this recommendation while everyone else went meh and left it in.

As for a plebiscite, it would probably fail because of people's what's in it for me mentality. There isn't much incentive to vote yes if you're outside the Green Line route.
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  #3794  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 3:11 AM
accord1999 accord1999 is offline
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
If the S.E. line went all the way to Seton then it would be a good investment. If the City already has the right of way in the S.E. why is $1 billion not enough to go from Shepperd to Seton? Or is this $100 million/km figure being thrown around just supporter bullshit?
Based on their last update in March 2019, $1B should be enough to go to Seton. Perhaps they're sticking with the river crossing for now because of political ramifications if you don't throw a bone to NC communities and politicians.



Besides, they can still come back in 2023 or 2024 and say due to budget concerns with Segment 2A they can no longer afford the river crossing and then use the leftover money elsewhere.
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  #3795  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 3:30 AM
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This feels more like an uneasy truce that lets everyone save face for the time being rather than a final resolution. I will just be relieved to see construction of the SELRT begin.

If the city really is all-in on a street car style alignment for Centre Street then that is what they should build and there is no need that it share a ROW, vehicle or anything else with the SELRT.

I feel like the resistance to just saying "we're building a street car from the Calgary Tower to 64th Ave" is because of some residual ambition of a significantly more ambitious subway line remains, nothing else makes sense.
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  #3796  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 3:50 AM
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Great to see, congrats!
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  #3797  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 5:26 AM
foolworm foolworm is offline
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Eh, this vote sounds like more can-kicking. Segment 1 was never really in doubt, but segment 2 is now chopped up into Downtown (2A) and Centre St (2B). The thing is Eau Claire is not a viable terminus and the tunnel depth determines the nature of the river crossing so nothing really changes - it's all political theatre.
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  #3798  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
This feels more like an uneasy truce that lets everyone save face for the time being rather than a final resolution. I will just be relieved to see construction of the SELRT begin.

If the city really is all-in on a street car style alignment for Centre Street then that is what they should build and there is no need that it share a ROW, vehicle or anything else with the SELRT.

I feel like the resistance to just saying "we're building a street car from the Calgary Tower to 64th Ave" is because of some residual ambition of a significantly more ambitious subway line remains, nothing else makes sense.
I really hope this is true.
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  #3799  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Even though I passionately hate the surface section of the Green Line, I'm glad the entire project is continuing. I expect the story is not over yet though.

And yeah, just say no to plebiscites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I'd call it a ~$4B good LRT line and ~$1B waste. While I dislike the north section and would prefer a fully grade separated line, the route from Eau Claire to the south is 10/10, IMO.
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  #3800  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2020, 7:42 PM
DoubleK DoubleK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Even though I passionately hate the surface section of the Green Line, I'm glad the entire project is continuing. I expect the story is not over yet though.

And yeah, just say no to plebiscites.
So much this. I'm in Renfrew and would much prefer they'd take the funding for 2B and build as far south as that money will allow.
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