Cities with an undeserved bad rap

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i don't doubt that attitude might prevail among tourists, but if you're accustomed to city life, that's just city life. raising my kids in the city, there's no way for me to shelter them from homeless people visibly doing drugs, or screaming obscenities, or other such sordid details or urban living.

i myself was raised in an inner-ring burb, but we lived 3 blocks from an el station and when my mom and dad took me and my sister downtown or to cubs/sox games, we'd always take the el. so i was probably exposed to some of that same stuff at a much younger age than a typical suburban kid. as a result, it doesn't seem off-putting to me to regularly take my own kids on the el.

as the saying goes, that's life in the big city.

That's life in American big cities. I never experienced that in London(during the day), Dubai, Beijing, or Tokyo.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

That's life in American big cities. I never experienced that in London(during the day), Dubai, Beijing, or Tokyo.

The phrase "that's life in the big city", is an americansim, so.......

Also, from the fact that it was me posting you should have known that I was talking about American cities because I rarely ever talk about cities on other continents. We Americans tend to be a rather navel-gazing species.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I haven't heard anything. The initial congestion pricing surcharge on for-hire vehicles is already in-effect, BTW.

Given the MTA desperately needs the money, and the approved budget is dependent on the revenue, not sure why they would delay full implementation. And that's on top of bridge/tunnel fare increases.

In 2020, if you're coming in from any bridge/tunnel from Jersey, you'll pay a $16 crossing fee + $12-$14 congestion fee, depending on time of day. So it will basically cost $30 just to cross the Hudson. And they're adding airport surcharges for for-hire vehicles. You could easily pay $100 from Newark Liberty to Manhattan.

Fuck that shit. That’s one of the very few things that I didn’t like about NYC. Eventually a mega overhaul has to happen and things will have to be slowed down for several years in order to prevent more crap, taxes, and fees.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

The price of parking varies in LA, depending on what time of the day, whether it's a weekday, or a weekend. There's a price per hour to a maximum rate, there's a flat rate, there's a flat rate after a certain time, there's weekend flat rates, some lots validate, some don't... and then there are prices depending on whether it's a private lot versus a city-owned lot... I'm sure other cities in the US are this way too.

So, parking in downtown LA, can be as low as a dollar for the whole day, to 35 dollars (and up) for the whole day.

I think I paid $45/day to park at the W Hollywood last year.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

That is batshit insane and the people who proposed that should be relieved of their duties but that is another topic for another thread.

It's about a decade late, tbh. Michael Bloomberg tried desperately to get congestion pricing implemented while he was mayor. Ironically, de Blasio has flip-flopped on the issue. He was initially skeptical but now has embraced it.

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

That's life in American big cities. I never experienced that in London(during the day), Dubai, Beijing, or Tokyo.

Apparently you didn’t ride the trains enough because I have experienced it in every city I’ve been to and taken public transportation, London, Paris, Montreal, Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, San Francisco, San Diego, etc.

Really the only place that I didn’t experience any negativity was in Vancouver and that’s only because I took the train once in that city.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

That's life in American big cities. I never experienced that in London(during the day), Dubai, Beijing, or Tokyo.

I've absolutely experienced that in London and other European cities. Homeless and visible drug use are arguably even worse in Europe. I think I've had more "incidents" on Paris streets, just visiting, than living in NYC for 15 years. I've seen two street fights, a homeless dude shut down a subway line when he threw a bottle on the third rail, sparking an explosion and panic, and saw a dude pleasuring himself in a park, all on tourist visits.

Dubai doesn't really have "streetlife", Beijing is in a totalitarian state and Tokyo is just a cultural outlier (though I remember lots of homeless in Tokyo).

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Fuck that shit. That’s one of the very few things that I didn’t like about NYC. Eventually a mega overhaul has to happen and things will have to be slowed down for several years in order to prevent more crap, taxes, and fees.

PATH trains costs $2.75. Many of the private commuter vans crossing the Hudson cost as little as $2.

It's very cheap getting across the Hudson, but just not by car. Leave the car in Jersey and take a train or bus/van.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

The phrase "that's life in the big city", is an americansim, so.......

Also, from the fact that it was me posting you should have known that I was talking about American cities because I rarely ever talk about cities on other continents. We Americans tend to be a rather navel-gazing species.

All true lol I just think that fact(how our cities are in some ways) is a damn shame.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by ChrisLA

Apparently you didn’t ride the trains enough because I have experienced it in every city I’ve been to and taken public transportation, London, Paris, Montreal, Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, San Francisco, San Diego, etc.

Really the only place that I didn’t experience any negativity was in Vancouver and that’s only because I took the train once in that city.

Out of the 8 cities you initially listed 5 were American and one was Canadian(which is American-lite). I had absolutely zero issues on the Tube in London between the hours of like 8am-9pm. Zero. And I was there for three weeks. And actually, I used the bus almost every day, zero issues there too.

Maybe you got unlucky in London or rode the train at night? I don't know.

I do know the last two times I was in DC:

A crazy lady started yelling at some hockey fans...then saying to her(I guess) granddaughter that "LET ME GUESS YOU'RE EMBARRASSED BECAUSE EVERYONE ON THE FUCKING THING THINKS IM GHETTO NOW." That was actually the only segment of her rant that revealed some self-reflection, but it was directed at like a 5-year-old in public, so incredibly uncomfortable.

The second time, there were about 6 teens on the train and the N-word wasn't just being said, it was being yelled. And one of the kids kept rapping as loud as he could.

This has never happened in any shape or form for me in London, Dubai, Tokyo, or Beijing. Just pointing that out.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I've absolutely experienced that in London and other European cities. Homeless and visible drug use are arguably even worse in Europe. I think I've had more "incidents" on Paris streets, just visiting, than living in NYC for 15 years. I've seen two street fights, a homeless dude shut down a subway line when he threw a bottle on the third rail, sparking an explosion and panic, and saw a dude pleasuring himself in a park, all on tourist visits.

Dubai doesn't really have "streetlife", Beijing is in a totalitarian state and Tokyo is just a cultural outlier (though I remember lots of homeless in Tokyo).

I just didn't experience that in London. At all.

I didn't mention Paris. I felt really unsafe there. Street kids running around everywhere...I felt bad but at the same time wanted to make sure I wasn't being pickpocketed.

What does Dubai having "streetlife" have to do with idiots on a train? The trains are packed, no anti-social behavior.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I just didn't experience that in London. At all.

I didn't mention Paris. I felt really unsafe there. Street kids running around everywhere...I felt bad but at the same time wanted to make sure I wasn't being pickpocketed.

What does Dubai having "streetlife" have to do with idiots on a train? The trains are packed, no anti-social behavior.

You can't have idiots in public if there's no public. Dubai essentially doesn't have a public realm, and doesn't have democratic norms, so it doesn't seem noteworthy that you're not seeing something which can't really exist.

London is no safer or more orderly than Paris. I saw blatant pot smoking, pissing and harassment on late-night London transit.

[Fresh]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You can't have idiots in public if there's no public. Dubai essentially doesn't have a public realm, and doesn't have democratic norms, so it doesn't seem noteworthy that you're not seeing something which can't really exist.

London is no safer or more orderly than Paris. I saw blatant pot smoking, pissing and harassment on late-night London transit.

If 'democratic norms' are pissing, yelling and harrassment then maybe there is some merit in authoritarianism.

Also, I don't know if the existence of a 'public realm' based on the city's political system is the most sound form of measurement: where does Singapore fit on this scale?

[Inkdaub]

Years ago I spent a little less than a year in Pittsburgh and I loved it. What is Pittsburgh's rap anyway? If it's bad then I choose Pittsburgh.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Fresh

If 'democratic norms' are pissing, yelling and harrassment then maybe there is some merit in authoritarianism.

They're a probable consequence of democratic norms. And no, I don't agree that authoritarianism is preferable just because they eliminate miscreants.

Originally Posted by Fresh

Also, I don't know if the existence of a 'public realm' based on the city's political system is the most sound form of measurement: where does Singapore fit on this scale?

Singapore isn't a democracy and has crap public realm (probably partially weather-related).

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You can't have idiots in public if there's no public. Dubai essentially doesn't have a public realm, and doesn't have democratic norms, so it doesn't seem noteworthy that you're not seeing something which can't really exist.

London is no safer or more orderly than Paris. I saw blatant pot smoking, pissing and harassment on late-night London transit.

There is no "public" in Dubai? Packed trains are the same in NYC, Tokyo, London or Dubai.

I am comparing these metros based off of daytime usage(minus Tokyo, a lot of night riding). Most places have a different crowd on late at night, which happen to be more likely to be drunk or whatever. This usually won't impact a family with kids on a train.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

There is no "public" in Dubai? Packed trains are the same in NYC, Tokyo, London or Dubai.

Yeah, but unlike in NYC, London, or Tokyo, the types of behavior we all would prefer not to see are severely criminalized in Dubai. Transit cop catches you with an open can in NYC? Depends on just how willing that individual cop is to cite you. Do that in Dubai and what, get your hand chopped off?

Spit gum out on the subway platform in London and you’re an ass. Do that in Singapore or Dubai and you’re still an ass, but you’re also going to jail for months or getting your actual ass beat bloody and raw with a bamboo cane. By the government.

[ozone]

In the Western USA, the cities with the most undeserved bad raps are—
Los Angeles
Sacramento
Salt Lake City
Spokane

The ones with the most well-deserved bad raps are—
Las Vegas
Phoenix
Fresno

Globally of the cities I've been to Bangkok is undeserving its bad rap. Shanghai and Dubai were the most overrated as are all Indian cities.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Dubai doesn't really have "streetlife". . .

Yes it does. . .

. . .

[JManc]

I was supposed to Dubai this August then I remembered...it's Dubai...in August then I switched to Shanghai and that got nixed because of family reasons but I recall seeing photos of 'oldtown' Dubai and it seemed bustling and full of character compared the stale newer part with all the skyscrapers and malls.