Winnipeg | Upper Fort Garry Provincial Park | 130 Main St.

[Only The Lonely..]

Wednesday morning, Premier Doer surprised many by suggesting a multi-million dollar interpretive centre at the site was too expensive. He suggested on CJOB, the site would be better served by knocking down a nearby Petro Canada gas station, and a civic building next door, which could both be replaced by green space.

Uhhnn huh...

Because there really aren't enough underutilized public spaces in downtown Winnipeg.

Besides, Isn't that kinda what's there right now?

Its good to see the NDP isn't short on vision.

[fengshui]

Freep's take on it:

Winnipeg Coun. Dan Vandal's last-ditch attempt to alter the city's deal with The Friends of Upper Fort Garry died on the floor of council this afternoon by the expected 9-6 margin.
Vandal (St. Boniface) wanted council to scrap a Dec. 13 deal that allows the volunteer group to build a heritage park on surplus city land along Main Street provided they raise $10 million by the end of March.
The Friends have only secured $6.6 million from public and private sources and must raise another $4.4 million by the end of the month if they want to prevent the city from selling a parcel of that land to Crystal Developers, which wants to build a 20-storey apartment building at the corner of Fort Street and Assiniboine Avenue.
Vandal wanted councillors to forget about the deadline and work out a compromise with Crystal Developers.
But other councillors argued that would open up the city to potential lawsuits, while Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz said the provincial and federal governments should have ponied up more cash.
The Friends of Upper Fort Garry have secured $1.5 million pledges from both Broadway and Ottawa, but were hoping to raise $4.5 million apiece from those levels of government.
The 9-6 vote followed a long and sometimes bitter debate that saw St. Norbert Coun. Justin Swandel accuse Vandal of political grandstanding.
Voting alongside Vandal were councillors Jenny Gerbasi, Lillian Thomas, Harvey Smith, Mike Pagtakhan and Grant Nordman.
Transcona Coun. Russ Wyatt was absent.

[rgalston]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Its good to see the NDP isn't short on vision.

Oh come now, didn't you notice it was the Civic NDP Party, plus Coun. Nordman who voted in favor of Vandal's motion?...

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by fengshui

Freep's take on it:

If this is true, then I've regained SOME hope that all is not lost in terms of development in Winnipeg, but let's see how it all plays out in the end. I have a feeling there are still a few tricks up the Friend's sleeves that we will see soon enough.

BTW, anyone know why Wyatt was absent?

[fengshui]

I heard/read today that he was attending to a personal matter in Cuba.

And yes, there is still time for them to raise the money.

[1ajs]

i see why the friends lost the RFP.... they did not have a proper business plan for operating costs and such for long term witch is rather odd also one of the counclers mentioned why are we pro suing the crystal site when theres the petro can site witch is essayer then the crystal site cause anything can be bought for the right price....

one councler was for no building being built on the site at all witch he went on to mention gerbasi was the one that motioned the vote to sell the land to crystal in the first place........ witch he voted against and he vote against the extension for the friends of Fort Garry siting that voting for this extension is a rather stupid move for the city not to mention the wasted tax payers money in court fees witch was brought up several times by other councle members...

the friends still have till the 31st to raise the money for the 18. something million dollar project... thats including the land the city is giving thats worth 5-6 million


councilors kept referring to the tower as condos? someone finally after hours of this misinformation corrected this...

there was no reason whats so ever for this vote to of even happened.........

o yea when i got there this morning i spoke to one of the friends not knowing who i was talking to stating witch side i was on and why i got a rather interesting expression back then got brushed off...

sorry if this is rather garbled its all over the place... you spend the day listening to it and all the little nick fits these counclers have over formatlities ect its stupid...

but the real battle at city hall is not the fort i think its the study that came from the transportion comission this week... thats looking to get real ugly thats somthing the meadia should be paying more atention to............................. did you guys know theres less cars on our roads today there in 1996?

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by rgalston

Oh come now, didn't you notice it was the Civic NDP Party, plus Coun. Nordman who voted in favor of Vandal's motion?...

that was brought up at the councle meeting and there was some mudslinging......
katz started reading from an artical from feb that was published in the freep about the premiers stance on this and thomas proceeded to interrupt the mayor saying reading news papers is not aloud the the speaker told her basically to shut up with these procedure interruptions

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

BTW, anyone know why Wyatt was absent?

apparentlyhes off on some secret mission for the mayor

[viperred88]

what a shame the city rushes for people to make a proposal on a heritage site which should take time to be well planned out.

I would of liked to have seen centre venture and the forks north portage in on this and maybe the friends as a private/public partnership

well if crystal developers I would hope its still that same design that blends with upper fort garry.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by viperred88

what a shame the city rushes for people to make a proposal on a heritage site which should take time to be well planned out.

I would of liked to have seen centre venture and the forks north portage in on this and maybe the friends as a private/public partnership

well if crystal developers I would hope its still that same design that blends with upper fort garry.

actualy the friends had been working on this for over 10 years

[c vist]

Nice meeting you today AJ ... hope you enjoyed the show!

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by c vist

Nice meeting you today AJ ... hope you enjoyed the show!

txs for posting the time of that

BTW how long did the media tie you up after the vote?

[trueviking]

^ a star is born...nice tie.

[Spocket]

Well, finally we get some good news and it appears that common sense has prevailed.

Incidentally, yeah, why the heck have we not been trying to get the gas station off that corner ? If anything must go , that's it. I would be all for that actually although I wouldn't ever be in favour of telling Petro Canada to get off the property. I'm sure they'd sell for the right price.

[drew]

^ Speak of the devil...

It's time for Plan B

By TOM BRODBECK

If nothing else, the heated debate over the future of Upper Fort Garry -- one of Western Canada's most important historical structures -- will give the issue the political attention it needs.

The north-side gate, the only thing remaining of the former fort -- where Louis Riel set up a provisional government and negotiated the terms of Manitoba's entry into Confederation -- has been rotting behind a gas station for decades.

Politicians haven't given a rat's rear-end about the gate and have been quite happy to allow it to be used by night-time drunks as an outdoor urinal.

They've given Upper Fort Garry lip service from time to time, but it hasn't been a priority for any level of government.

Fortunately, that may be about to change.

Barring some sugar-daddy coming along at the 11th-hour with a bag full of money, it appears the ambitious plan by the Friends of Fort Garry to use land next to the gate to build a large interpretive centre has been dashed.

Instead, it looks like Crystal Developers will get the green light to build its apartment building behind the gate on what is surplus city land.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't encroach on the historical site and brings much-needed housing to the downtown -- and tax revenue.

One of downtown Winnipeg's biggest problems is not enough people live there. A 17-storey apartment block would help in that regard.

Councillors like Dan Vandal and Jenny Gerbasi don't want an apartment there. They say it would be devastating to the future of Upper Fort Garry.

They're hypocrites, though. They haven't done a damn thing over the past 10 years to develop or protect Upper Fort Garry, even though they used to be in former mayor Glen Murray's inner-circle of power.

Suddenly, they're jumping on the bandwagon.

Truth be known, Gerbasi voted in favour of selling that surplus land to Crystal Developers last year.

Say what? It's true.

She now says she made a mistake. Whatever.

The reality is, an apartment block behind the historical site will not harm Upper Fort Garry. What harms the gate is the Petro Canada gas station that blocks its view and prevents it from being properly showcased.

Mayor Sam Katz said yesterday he's willing to enter into discussions with Premier Gary Doer on the idea of buying the gas station out, demolishing it and opening up green space to properly develop the Upper Fort Garry site.

Now that would be a hell of a deal.

The federal and provincial governments have pledged $1.5 million each toward the site. And if the Friends of Fort Garry are truly committed to the site, they would funnel some or all of the $3.6 million they've raised into this Plan B.

Add to that the fact Crystal Developers pledged to city council yesterday to work closely with the Friends of Upper Fort Garry and government to develop an interpretive centre at the existing site, and we may have something here.

The main thing is political will and momentum.

The key is to keep Katz and Doer's feet to the fire on this while the coals are hot.

Otherwise, the apartment block gets built, the politicians lose interest and the gate continue to deteriorate behind a gas station.

Katz pledged in front of reporters yesterday that within 30 days he will meet with Doer about the gas station.

So we'll ask him again about it April 19.

The Friends of Upper Fort Garry's original plan may be off.

But that doesn't mean this historical site can't be properly preserved and developed.

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ a star is born...nice tie.

Please post pictures of the tie. For urban design review of course.

[bimbamboom]

Great article by Tom Brodbeck. He is a voice of reason on many topics in this city.

[1ajs]

if they get rid of the gas station a new one has to go up somewhere cause aww its the only gas station downtown :S

petro can don't own that gas station its privetly owned by some family no and the city in the past has tried to sell it even trade land and have been denied.. but the gas station is still eassayer option then the crystal site..

[The Jabroni]

Someone will have to do a few arm twistings to get rid of that gas station. It's been blocking that gate for God knows how long.

[drew]

^ it will more than likely require a very costly environmental remediation after the gas is gone just to redevelop anything on that site...

Perhaps the owners of that Petro Can are a little afraid of what might be uncovered after they sell that site.