Manitoba chiefs want cellphone revenue

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Albertaboy

Get's what?

Just a quick comment;

If you believe that we all owe aborigional(sic) people, then why don't you give all your property (house, car, appliances, dog, etc.) to them? After all, YOU owe them too, right?

No this is a stupid argument and deserves no response.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

No this is a stupid argument and deserves no response.

If this argument/comment is rediculous, then it naturally follows suite that your position is stupid as well, since my comment IS your argument. You need to make up your mind on where you stand in order to be deemed credible.

[Greco Roman]

Anyways, this argument is getting dull. To each his/her own I guess.

Have fun debating.

[204]

Originally Posted by Albertaboy

If this argument/comment is rediculous, then it naturally follows suite that your position is stupid as well, since my comment IS your argument. You need to make up your mind on where you stand in order to be deemed credible.

ri‧dic‧u‧lous [ri-dik-yuh-luh s] adj.

absurd; outrageous; inviting or worthy of ridicule; Some people have ridiculous spelling.

R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S. Not so hard, is it? Then why do so many people spell it rediculous? Subtle, maybe even unconscious, communist sympathies?

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by 204

ri‧dic‧u‧lous [ri-dik-yuh-luh s] adj.

absurd; outrageous; inviting or worthy of ridicule; Some people have ridiculous spelling.

R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S. Not so hard, is it? Then why do so many people spell it rediculous? Subtle, maybe even unconscious, communist sympathies?

My bad.

Yes, that's right; I am only human

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Albertaboy

If this argument/comment is rediculous, then it naturally follows suite that your position is stupid as well, since my comment IS your argument. You need to make up your mind on where you stand in order to be deemed credible.

No your argument is your argument and is stupid.

[Marc B.]

Originally Posted by Albertaboy

If you believe that we all owe aborigional people, then why don't you give all your property (house, car, appliances, dog, etc.) to them? After all, YOU owe them too, right?

Even if the subject of a claim is in private hands, private property is excluded from settlements. Not defending Quimby, just saying.

Originally Posted by scrappypeg

As with in real life - we may all just be tired of the topic - talk talk talk and nothing changes. Hands stay out asking for more, ho hum.

Isn't it all resolved yet? Can we move on yet?

There's just so many claims, it seems like there's no real progress. They do eventually get settled, though. It takes a lot of time to properly review and research them all. (Again, not arguing, just saying).

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Marc B.

Even if the subject of a claim is in private hands, private property is excluded from settlements. Not defending Quimby, just saying.

Of course, I'm just making a point that Quimby thinks we all personally owe the aborigionals for what happened in the past, whereas I don't agree.

But absolutely, lets get these claims over with and TECHNICALLY put this issue to rest once and for all.

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by Albertaboy

Of course, I'm just making a point that Quimby thinks we all personally owe the aborigionals for what happened in the past, whereas I don't agree.

But absolutely, lets get these claims over with and TECHNICALLY put this issue to rest once and for all.

See now your claiming that I think something, I never said. You will stoop to the lowest common denominator argument, another fallacy.

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by Marc B.

Even if the subject of a claim is in private hands, private property is excluded from settlements. Not defending Quimby, just saying.



There's just so many claims, it seems like there's no real progress. They do eventually get settled, though. It takes a lot of time to properly review and research them all. (Again, not arguing, just saying).

I believe that is where the frustration (on both sides) come from - the seeming reality that no progress is being made.

If it's in a signed treaty, settle it and then close the book on it - it's time for this country to move on. I still hold no personal responsibility for decisions that were made over 100 years ago - I would argue this is what irks many people, both aboriginal and non aboriginal people.

Glad to know personal property is exempted from any treaty - and glad to know that means I can keep my job! (referring to Quimby's suggestion that all non Aboriginals owe their very being to Aboriginals). Speaking of RIDiculous!

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg

I believe that is where the frustration (on both sides) come from - the seeming reality that no progress is being made.

If it's in a signed treaty, settle it and then close the book on it - it's time for this country to move on. I still hold no personal responsibility for decisions that were made over 100 years ago - I would argue this is what irks many people, both aboriginal and non aboriginal people.

Glad to know personal property is exempted from any treaty - and glad to know that means I can keep my job! (referring to Quimby's suggestion that all non Aboriginals owe their very being to Aboriginals). Speaking of RIDiculous!

Taking someones statements out of context and them using them to attribute another belief or statement is school yard debating and ranks with, "No you are...".

What I said was that all Canadians should be more thankful, towards the First Nations, for their personal prosperity. If the land was never surrendered, the railroad would never have been built. Many cities wouldn't have developed, no Homesteaders Act to allow the flood of immigrants some small chance at prosperity, and many found it but some generations later. This means, no land, no resources, no jobs and most of us would be back in the "home" country scraping by.

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

Taking someones statements out of context and them using them to attribute another belief or statement is school yard debating and ranks with, "No you are...".

What I said was that all Canadians should be more thankful, towards the First Nations, for their personal prosperity. If the land was never surrendered, the railroad would never have been built. Many cities wouldn't have developed, no Homesteaders Act to allow the flood of immigrants some small chance at prosperity, and many found it but some generations later. This means, no land, no resources, no jobs and most of us would be back in the "home" country scraping by.

And that comment is about as valid as if someone were to say that all Aboriginals should be more thankful that they weren't conquered in a war like fashion. If they were, well, I'm glad things didn't turn out that way because we do things differently here - just making a similiarly nonsense statement equal to your 'be more thankful' statement.

The contribution of the Aboriginal people to the development of this country are only equally as important as the contribution of others - sorry Quimby, you're gonna have to suck up that there are people who don't agree with you. And no, one isn't a racist just because they don't sympathize with your point of view.

[Mayor Quimby]

Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg

And that comment is about as valid as if someone were to say that all Aboriginals should be more thankful that they weren't conquered in a war like fashion. If they were, well, I'm glad things didn't turn out that way because we do things differently here - just making a similiarly(sic) nonsense statement equal to your 'be more thankful' statement.

The contribution of the Aboriginal people to the development of this country are only equally as important as the contribution of others - sorry Quimby, you're gonna have to suck up that there are people who don't agree with you. And no, one isn't a racist just because they don't sympathize with your point of view.

That was a little better.

But, why because I take a position and debate it, do you think that I don't think others should have their own opinion?

I think everyone can have an opinion but most are wrong. Therefore, I debate them on it and call them on their misconceptions and so-called common sense answers. It is great to pragmatic but some situations call for choosing sides and the treatment of First Nations is one of those situations. Are you really trying to tell me that race relations in Manitoba and Saskatchewan are good? OK? good enough?

IMO they suck and their is bigotry on both sides but the non-aboriginals have the money and the power and use it .

What is the answer? I don't know but First Nations need to sort it out together and Canada has to give them every resource needed in order for it to succeed. There will be failures, corruption and stupidity but we need not look much further then Ottawa to see, it is everywhere and part of perfecting government(an on going project).

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

That was a little better.

But, why because I take a position and debate it, do you think that I don't think others should have their own opinion?

I think everyone can have an opinion but most are wrong. Therefore, I debate them on it and call them on their misconceptions and so-called common sense answers. It is great to pragmatic but some situations call for choosing sides and the treatment of First Nations is one of those situations. Are you really trying to tell me that race relations in Manitoba and Saskatchewan are good? OK? good enough?

IMO they suck and their is bigotry on both sides but the non-aboriginals have the money and the power and use it .

What is the answer? I don't know but First Nations need to sort it out together and Canada has to give them every resource needed in order for it to succeed. There will be failures, corruption and stupidity but we need not look much further then Ottawa to see, it is everywhere and part of perfecting government(an on going project).

There you go. This response is what I was looking for. Instead of just calling someone "racist" because they take an opposing point of view from your own, you gave a clear and concise explanation to what you believe. Why didn't you just say this in the first place?

I still don't agree with you completely, but yes, there is bigotry on both sides. Hopefully there is a way to work around this anger and move on already, for everyone's sake.

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

That was a little better.

But, why because I take a position and debate it, do you think that I don't think others should have their own opinion?

I think everyone can have an opinion but most are wrong. Therefore, I debate them on it and call them on their misconceptions and so-called common sense answers. It is great to pragmatic but some situations call for choosing sides and the treatment of First Nations is one of those situations. Are you really trying to tell me that race relations in Manitoba and Saskatchewan are good? OK? good enough?

IMO they suck and their is bigotry on both sides but the non-aboriginals have the money and the power and use it .

What is the answer? I don't know but First Nations need to sort it out together and Canada has to give them every resource needed in order for it to succeed. There will be failures, corruption and stupidity but we need not look much further then Ottawa to see, it is everywhere and part of perfecting government(an on going project).

Short response to your first question - because you immediately accused some in here, including myself, of being racist. When you seemingly attack people (perception is everything) for having an opinion that doesn't match your own, or if your comments appear to be inflammatory and accusatory, you will get nothing but resistance. If you conduct any advocacy in your professional/personal life I'm going to guess you already know that. And if you happened to forget that rule in this debate, I'll chalk it up to your passion on the subject.

In all of that you can't forget that the other side can be just as passionate, and not because people are racist - but there is alot of money at stake and that is a sensitive subject for most.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

What is the answer? I don't know but First Nations need to sort it out together and Canada has to give them every resource needed in order for it to succeed. There will be failures, corruption and stupidity but we need not look much further then Ottawa to see, it is everywhere and part of perfecting government(an on going project).

It starts with having a little bit of self pride...and I hate to say it but no number of government programs can ever fix that problem.

I was at work the other day and I received a resume from guy who was applying to be an engineer at my firm.

His resume was tragic to say the least, at one time he was a senior mechanical engineer in Saudi Arabia. The guy came to Canada and his first job was working at Kitchen Craft for $8 nothing an hour because he wanted his kids to get ahead.

How many other immigrants come here with nothing in their pocket but a hope and a dream?

I'm sure this guy wasn't waiting for decades for the government to hand him some golden opportunity.

The aboriginal community needs to realize that only they can solve their problems, and that they have the power and intelligence within them to do so.

Our time on earth is fleeting, we must take baby steps today so that we can walk a higher path tomorrow.

[Mayor Quimby]

From today's Leader Post op ed,"In good faith, First Nations signed treaties with the British Crown -- and subsequently the Canadian government -- from 1701 onwards, giving up huge tracts of land in return for areas to be reserved for their own use, money and other benefits.

It was thanks to those historic agreements that millions of immigrants were able to benefit from Canada's natural resources and build a prosperous society."

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

From today's Leader Post op ed,"In good faith, First Nations signed treaties with the British Crown -- and subsequently the Canadian government -- from 1701 onwards, giving up huge tracts of land in return for areas to be reserved for their own use, money and other benefits.

It was thanks to those historic agreements that millions of immigrants were able to benefit from Canada's natural resources and build a prosperous society."

Again with the being thankful thing - there's the problem, you can't shove that 'thankful' thing down peoples throats. Any immigrant should be thankful to the Aboriginals for being allowed to come to this country and work their butts off to build something from it? In return, do you tell all Aboriginal people that they should be thankful that the British Crown negotiated instead of conquered, that they should be thankful to them for the society that has been built by immigrants?

Enough with the us versus them thing - all it does it create division.

[Mayor Quimby]

I never wrote it but it does seem to be the "Enlightened" approach, as opposed to your get over it. Sometimes this board reminds me of the characters in "Idiocracy".

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby

I never wrote it but it does seem to be the "Enlightened" approach, as opposed to your get over it. Sometimes this board reminds me of the characters in "Idiocracy".

Yup, that's the way to get people to sympathize with a viewpoint that you believe in so strongly....insult them.