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  #81  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 3:04 AM
AwesomeSAView AwesomeSAView is offline
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Micah, you took a lot of time and effort to compile. I respect that. However, there are some things I personally take issue with. I should say I have no horse in the race of is SA world class. That’s subjective and will be a yes or no for so many people. My opinion is unimportant in this. However, the criteria you’ve come up with is sketchy. My two main problems with your criteria are crime and air quality.

Crime.

If crime were a component for how you achieve world class status, then Chicago would never be able to call itself world class. Neither would Los Angeked or Mexico City or many other places. Crime and world class stayed are not mutually exclusive.

Also, as stated in your links, the title of number one in the nation for violent crime is VERY misleading simply because it was only for the top 15 cities, not all cities. The second issue is more semantic than anything, but it was regarding serious crime, not violent crime. There’s a distinction, but it’s not that big an issue.


Air quality.

I’m not at all sure what air quality has to do with being a world class city. Los Angels, Mexico City, Singapore, Beijing, Mumbai, etc suffer from some of the worst air quality on the planet. Dallas and Houston have worst air and so much so if your vehicle is registered in those cities, you have to have get a vehicle emissions inspection yearly. Actually, San Antonio is the only large city in Texas that does not require a vehicle emissions inspection.


In my personal opinion, most of the things you wrote about, don’t matter when it comes to being precieved as world class. Not even remotely.

World class is more about your importance to the world on both an economic and cultural level. Those are the two measurements which determine how you’re precieved on the world stage.

VERY WELL WRITTEN!
Totally agree!

IMO
SAN ANTONIO IS A UNIQUE, HISTORICAL,WORLD CLASS CITY!!

GREAT PLACE TO LIVE!!!
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  #82  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 3:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AwesomeSAView View Post
Sorry, don't even bring Austin into this. San Antonio is the top city in TEXAS that tourists visit yearly.

Austin and San Antonio are two different cities. So do not even compare the two. SORRY!

San Antonio: A Unique, Historical, World Class City
IMO


And money has nothing to do with it. SORRY

Oh, and I hit a pot hole in Austin. Every city has them. LOL
I didn’t say San Antonio was the only one with potholes but I’ve lived in FW, Austin, and Dallas and we have a lot more of those than they do. And a bunch of middle age folks with fanny packs and cowboy hats doesn’t exactly make San Antonio ‘world class.’ I loved growing up here but the last thing we need to focus on is just getting more tourists. That won’t fix pot holes or get kids to finish high school. You wanna plug your ears and compare us critics to “a certain controversial political figure” be my guest. Take it like this, you can call a morbidly obese person perfect just they way they are but I’ll tell him to take better care of himself so he can live to see his kids grow up. We’ll see which advice yields better results. Cheers buddy.
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  #83  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 4:06 AM
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This has to be the most neurotic skyscraper city subforum in existence.
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  #84  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 4:38 AM
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If you’ve recently seen the New York forum, one of the posters made some vulgar remarks about the mod NYGuy. As ill-mannered & aggressive as my remarks are, I tried keeping it safe for work. I’m getting way too worked up over this but I just want San Antonio to be better. We all do. And a few more glass high-rises and less beige stumps wouldn’t hurt either. I’m sorry for losing my cool.
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  #85  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 6:06 AM
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There is so much misinformation on both sides of this argument and I’m sorry, but many people arguing about “world class” status are using some very petty and irrelevant reasoning.

I know I stated earlier I wasn’t going to give my opinion, because it really doesn’t blister, but I’ll just say this. I don’t think there is a single “world class” in Texas. That is a true true that is above Dallas and Houston. There is maybe three cities in America that I would consider world class.
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  #86  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 2:15 PM
JRG1974 JRG1974 is offline
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I see this argument on whether San Antonio is a World Class city pop up from time to time. I think I finally have the answer for it.

Who cares!

Last I check, we don't get a bonus, plaque, or medal for being a world class city. I love San Antonio. I grew up here, went to school in Austin, and have lived and worked in different places across the US. They are all have their pluses and minuses.

I have since moved back to San Antonio, and it is a beautiful, unique, and amazing city. It really is a great place to live and visit. Population growth numbers for the area show this to be the case. But as Micahinsa pointed out, we have problems that need to be addressed. Not because we want to be a World Class city, but because we owe it to ourselves, our families, and our friends to make this a great city to live in.

Crime is getting worse (there are different reports to look at rank, but they all say we are getting substantially worse). We should do something about it. The drop out rate in San Antonio is scary. We should do something about that as well. Public transportation needs to get better (I don't think rail is the answer, but it does need to get better). We should do something about that. People get caught up in a silly argument about world class cities, and we ignore the issues staring us in the face.

Overall, I think the two main issues facing San Antonio are education, and unchecked urban sprawl. If we can resolve those issues, I think that would greatly improve this city. Would we then be a World Class city, I don't really care.

In the end, I have to agree with sirkingwilliam. There are no World Class Cities in Texas. The only sure fire world class cities in the US, in my mind, are New York and LA. Chicago, Boston, San Francisco and Seattle could make a case. But that is about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
There is so much misinformation on both sides of this argument and I’m sorry, but many people arguing about “world class” status are using some very petty and irrelevant reasoning.

I know I stated earlier I wasn’t going to give my opinion, because it really doesn’t blister, but I’ll just say this. I don’t think there is a single “world class” in Texas. That is a true true that is above Dallas and Houston. There is maybe three cities in America that I would consider world class.
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  #87  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2018, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRG1974 View Post
I see this argument on whether San Antonio is a World Class city pop up from time to time. I think I finally have the answer for it.

Who cares!

Last I check, we don't get a bonus, plaque, or medal for being a world class city. I love San Antonio. I grew up here, went to school in Austin, and have lived and worked in different places across the US. They are all have their pluses and minuses.

I have since moved back to San Antonio, and it is a beautiful, unique, and amazing city. It really is a great place to live and visit. Population growth numbers for the area show this to be the case. But as Micahinsa pointed out, we have problems that need to be addressed. Not because we want to be a World Class city, but because we owe it to ourselves, our families, and our friends to make this a great city to live in.

Crime is getting worse (there are different reports to look at rank, but they all say we are getting substantially worse). We should do something about it. The drop out rate in San Antonio is scary. We should do something about that as well. Public transportation needs to get better (I don't think rail is the answer, but it does need to get better). We should do something about that. People get caught up in a silly argument about world class cities, and we ignore the issues staring us in the face.

Overall, I think the two main issues facing San Antonio are education, and unchecked urban sprawl. If we can resolve those issues, I think that would greatly improve this city. Would we then be a World Class city, I don't really care.

In the end, I have to agree with sirkingwilliam. There are no World Class Cities in Texas. The only sure fire world class cities in the US, in my mind, are New York and LA. Chicago, Boston, San Francisco and Seattle could make a case. But that is about it.
During the months-long debate about whether San Antonio is a world-class city, I’ve been puzzled that there has not been a single mention of the numerous organizations that routinely evaluate and classify cities all over the world for that exact reason. The one which I find to have some of the most detailed information is the Globalization and World Class Cities Research Network (lboro.ac.uk/gawc/). The GAWC publishes a list divided into a dozen tiers arranged in descending order according to the rankings for each city tier group. Among the factors used for evaluation are economic strength, financial influence, transportation, educational institutions, presence of multi-national corporations, overall infrastructure and a variety of additional criteria. San Antonio is actually found among the cities contained in the eleventh-ranked tier, which is designated “High Sufficiency Cities”. As one might reluctantly expect, Dallas and Houston are in the fourth tier, while Austin made it to the eighth. Other good sources for reviewing similar rankings include the Global City Competitiveness Index, the Global Metro Monitor Map and the Global Financial Centres Index.
It should come as no surprise that San Antonio is found so low on the list, but at least we’re on the radar, so to speak. What was surprising to me, however, is how many cities in the U.S. are ranked way above us that we may have regarded as somehow inferior or behind us in overall development or growth. Is is true that these lists are the product of the opinions of the researchers, albeit opinions arrived at after considerable research and analysis. One may choose to disregard them as such, although that might be a little more difficult to do in light of likely scrutiny by disinterested entities who have left them largely unchallenged. After all, it has not been that long since we were reminded that opinions are not truth. Data and statistics are always subject to interpretation and that may well involve more subjectivity than objectivity on the researchers’ part. Since a lot of the data are provided by the municipalities, themselves, I am inclined to regard the information as fairly reliable.
I was born and raised in San Antonio but left when I was seventeen and did not return until I retired in '06. It is my home town, warts and all. I was fortunate to have lived and worked in seven states and three foreign countries and can truthfully say (can truth be opinion?) that I found some cities that were much nicer than San Antonio from a variety of perspectives, that being my humble opinion. Be that as it may, those posters who comment on a perceived lack of progress should have seen what it was like here fifty years ago when I was in high school. While it is certainly appropriate to focus on future goals, we must give due credit to those who have contributed so much to being where we are today.
Finally, I would certainly hope to see an eventual diminishing of the rancorous criticism leveled at some of our posters who have done nothing more egregious that offer their opinion on some topic in which they share our interest. To pile on someone for merely making a statement we happen to disagree with is a mark of childish immaturity, as well as a lack of patience, tolerance and simple, good manners. I salute those who persistently state their case while probably knowing that someone will crab endlessly for no particular reason.
Thus endeth my epistle of 7 August, 2018.
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  #88  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 3:12 AM
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Thank you ICEVET for further research. It seems to help close discussion on this particular matter.
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  #89  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 3:20 AM
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This is the word of the ICEVET.
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  #90  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by maxus View Post
Thank you ICEVET for further research. It seems to help close discussion on this particular matter.
No sweat, MAXUS, although perhaps research should be made of sterner stuff. I've always been kinda fascinated by demographics, things urban and, of course, skyscrapers, so what little spare time I have is spent perusing the relevant stats, figures, and reports. What got me about those indices I referenced is that they reflect what OTHERS around the world perceive when they look at our town, and many hold to the belief that perception is reality. That possibly being the case, maybe those who argue for a bigger budget for the departments that oversee San Antonio's Convention and Sports Facilities, Economic Development and Aviation have a point worth listening to. Further, almost all the issues raised by MICAHINSA are addressed in the evaluation criteria used by those putting us under the microscope.
The hand having writ... moves on.

A LA LEGION!!!!!
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  #91  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ICEVET View Post
I've always been kinda fascinated by demographics, things urban and, of course, skyscrapers, so what little spare time I have is spent perusing the relevant stats, figures, and reports.
You kinda just described everyone here.
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  #92  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 9:54 PM
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I guess I feel like we can look to other cities for things that we like and things that we don't, to serve as aspirational milestones, but it doesn't feel productive to just grumble all of the time about the fact that we will never be Chicago, nor should we necessarily want to be. (See their pension crisis, etc.)

Likewise, Chicago won't ever be NYC, and that's ok too.

We have an amazing story in San Antonio. We have more historical culture than almost any other city, and we currently are also growing faster every other city.

We are a city for the new millennium. That growth will look different than cities like NY and Chicago that had their growth before widespread automobile use, but we will also look different than cities that had their growth later, like Atlanta and Phoenix.

We look longingly at the towers in Austin, but never think about cities like Corpus that (probably) look at San Antonio in the same way. (An NBA team and Whataburger HQ!)

New glass towers are an easy scorecard for comparison (esp in a forum dedicated to discussing them) but I think the definition of a great, liveable city (regardless of your definition of "world class") will include other measures as well.

Let's glean positives from other cities, without losing sight of what makes SA special and unique.
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  #93  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 10:28 PM
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Who ever said we have more potholes then Dallas Or Houston are of their rocker.

Houston and Dallas roads are awful.
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  #94  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rynetwo View Post
Who ever said we have more potholes then Dallas Or Houston are of their rocker.

Houston and Dallas roads are awful.
That was a very random and odd claim that was never backed with any kind of proof.
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  #95  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ICEVET View Post
During the months-long debate about whether San Antonio is a world-class city, I’ve been puzzled that there has not been a single mention of the numerous organizations that routinely evaluate and classify cities all over the world for that exact reason. The one which I find to have some of the most detailed information is the Globalization and World Class Cities Research Network (lboro.ac.uk/gawc/). The GAWC publishes a list divided into a dozen tiers arranged in descending order according to the rankings for each city tier group. Among the factors used for evaluation are economic strength, financial influence, transportation, educational institutions, presence of multi-national corporations, overall infrastructure and a variety of additional criteria. San Antonio is actually found among the cities contained in the eleventh-ranked tier, which is designated “High Sufficiency Cities”. As one might reluctantly expect, Dallas and Houston are in the fourth tier, while Austin made it to the eighth. Other good sources for reviewing similar rankings include the Global City Competitiveness Index, the Global Metro Monitor Map and the Global Financial Centres Index.
It should come as no surprise that San Antonio is found so low on the list, but at least we’re on the radar, so to speak. What was surprising to me, however, is how many cities in the U.S. are ranked way above us that we may have regarded as somehow inferior or behind us in overall development or growth. Is is true that these lists are the product of the opinions of the researchers, albeit opinions arrived at after considerable research and analysis. One may choose to disregard them as such, although that might be a little more difficult to do in light of likely scrutiny by disinterested entities who have left them largely unchallenged. After all, it has not been that long since we were reminded that opinions are not truth. Data and statistics are always subject to interpretation and that may well involve more subjectivity than objectivity on the researchers’ part. Since a lot of the data are provided by the municipalities, themselves, I am inclined to regard the information as fairly reliable.
I was born and raised in San Antonio but left when I was seventeen and did not return until I retired in '06. It is my home town, warts and all. I was fortunate to have lived and worked in seven states and three foreign countries and can truthfully say (can truth be opinion?) that I found some cities that were much nicer than San Antonio from a variety of perspectives, that being my humble opinion. Be that as it may, those posters who comment on a perceived lack of progress should have seen what it was like here fifty years ago when I was in high school. While it is certainly appropriate to focus on future goals, we must give due credit to those who have contributed so much to being where we are today.
Finally, I would certainly hope to see an eventual diminishing of the rancorous criticism leveled at some of our posters who have done nothing more egregious that offer their opinion on some topic in which they share our interest. To pile on someone for merely making a statement we happen to disagree with is a mark of childish immaturity, as well as a lack of patience, tolerance and simple, good manners. I salute those who persistently state their case while probably knowing that someone will crab endlessly for no particular reason.
Thus endeth my epistle of 7 August, 2018.
GWAC also lists, Cleveland, Orlando, Cincinatti, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, NC, Columbus, Ohio and Kansas City as Gamma cities. I don't see how these smaller cities are more significant than San Antonio on a global scale. They even have Bologna, listed as a Gamma city. I don't think San Antonio is being recognized for its strengths as it should. This is a bunch of Bologna, alright.
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2018 San Antonio Pop.1.47 million
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Last edited by Paul in S.A TX; Aug 16, 2018 at 5:30 PM.
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  #96  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 5:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in S.A TX View Post
GWAC also lists, Cleveland, Orlando, Cincinatti, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, NC, Columbus, Ohio and Kansas City as Gamma cities. I don't see how these smaller cities are more significant than San Antonio on a global scale. They even have Bologna, listed as a Gamma city. I don't think San Antonio is being recognized for its strengths as it should. This is a bunch of Bologna, alright.
Orlando, SA, and Pittsburgh are all roughly the same size (metro). And, I think it is safe to say that those listed have a more global impact, economically, than SA does - at the moment. That might change in the coming years as our economy strengthens and becomes more global.
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  #97  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 8:02 PM
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ILUVSAT you’re 100% correct. I just checked the raitings. Sacramento and Salt Lake City are above San Antonio. We’re better off just joining up with Austin to get a team. Do with San Marcos what the Rangers did with Arlington. People just need to suck it up we’re low tier.
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  #98  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 12:44 AM
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The most recent study on World Cities by GAWC was in 2016 included the following American cities. They are listed in order from first place to last and divided into tiers.

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2016t.html


Alpha ++

New York City


Alpha

Chicago
Los Angeles


Alpha -

Washington, D.C.
San Francisco
Miami


Beta +

Boston
Atlanta
Dallas
Houston


Beta

Philadelphia


Beta -

Minneapolis
Denver
Seattle
St. Louis
San Diego


Gamma +

Cleveland
Detroit
San Jose


Gamma

Phoenix
Austin
Cincinnati
Kansas City
Tampa


Gamma -

Charlotte
Raleigh
Orlando
Columbus
Pittsburgh


High Sufficiency

Hartford
Milwaukee
Portland
Sacramento
Jacksonville
Indianapolis
San Antonio
Salt Lake City


Sufficiency

Richmond
Tulsa
Las Vegas
Memphis
Birmingham
Oklahoma City
New Orleans
Louisville
Omaha
Des Moines
Madison
Providence
Honolulu


Noticebly missing cities:

Nashville, Tucson, Albuquerque, and Charleston

Respectively, I'd argue that Nashville belongs in the Gamma - level and the other three are Sufficiency level. I can also quibble with some placements (San Antonio, Vegas, and New Orleans should be higher) based on my qualitative perception, but I have the vague impression these rankings are based on quantitative data, so I'll let the experts' opinions speak for themselves.
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San Antonio/Austin Economic Region 2017: 5,549,867 (+16.71% over 2010):
San Antonio: 1,511,946 (+13.29%) + Metro Suburbs: 962,068 (+18.03%)
Austin: 950,715 (+20.30%) + Metro Suburbs: 1,165,112 (+25.76%)
Killeen/Temple Metro: 443,773 (+9.49%) + Waco Metro: 268,696 (+6.30%)
Rural Hill Country: 247,597 (+4.13%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Aug 17, 2018 at 12:57 AM.
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  #99  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 1:24 AM
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☝️ridiculous!!!!
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  #100  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Noticebly missing cities:

Nashville, Tucson, Albuquerque, and Charleston
Having lived near Charleston, South Carolina for around 3 years, I can attest to some similarities between it and San Antonio, most notably, historical presence. If I'm not mistaken, Charleston is actually one of the oldest cities in the United States. While it certainly isn't world class in terms of skyline (tallest building is less than 300 feet, I think), or clean, manicured aesthetics, it has an older, more organic feel that is (subjectively) somewhat similar to SA. If this list can't include a substantially sized city as historical and interesting as Charleston, I think it's undervaluing intangible properties such as character in favor of more concrete statistics. I'm sure it's is serving the purpose it's creators intended, but not everything about a city can be summed up in raw numbers. I'm not making the argument that SA is indeed, objectively "world class", just that aspects of it (and other historical cities) can be easily undervalued.
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