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  #181  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2015, 3:51 AM
Simplicity Simplicity is offline
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^ windypeg is right. Emergency service costs are a different issue. That said, while it would cost less to service a more compact and dense area, I don't think that the difference would be vast. At the end of the day you will still need X number of first responders.
We really have to disassociate the concept of urbanism from most city's urban cores. Urbanism is a concept that can take place in Bridgwater Center if it's properly developed, but no urbanist wants to hear that. Most city's actual urban landscapes are similar to what we experience here. Some not quite as dire, but close. And some much, much worse. Inner cities everywhere have crime, addiction and poverty issues for reasons we don't need to discuss here. Those issues require significant and variable - not necessarily fixed - resources. They are a part of the costs of keeping those areas semi-livable. We can't ignore those costs because they don't fit the theory.
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  #182  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2015, 3:05 PM
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Seriously, since you have strong issues on this matter, please explain to us here how the nuances of the SHED TIF and various taxation subsidies used to facilitate these developments contribute to the city's bottom line and the betterment of the local economy.
My concern is that the SHED TIF seems to almost exclusive benefit the Chipman family companies to the determinant of tax payers in general. It also seems to further fuel the near monopoly Chipman companies have on activities in the area. Want to grab a bite and beers within the SHED? Try and do that without a Chipman company either owning the lease or having a larger controlling interest in those operations.

I am not opposed to the SHED TIF it would just be nice if there was more innovation and competition that came with it.
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  #183  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2015, 5:20 PM
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Although the discussion started with the 3 most costly services.. core vs. suburbs and the cost associated with them we shouldn't neglect the other obvious factors making new suburbs more expensive to all rather than denser core neighborhoods?

As we expand outward costs will increase exponentially with the need to expand transit/RT routes, snow removal, garbage P/U, recycling P/U, obviously infrastructure, etc. Which is more expensive for tax payers overall?
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  #184  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2015, 5:55 PM
steveosnyder steveosnyder is offline
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Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
We really have to disassociate the concept of urbanism from most city's urban cores. Urbanism is a concept that can take place in Bridgwater Center if it's properly developed, but no urbanist wants to hear that. Most city's actual urban landscapes are similar to what we experience here. Some not quite as dire, but close. And some much, much worse. Inner cities everywhere have crime, addiction and poverty issues for reasons we don't need to discuss here. Those issues require significant and variable - not necessarily fixed - resources. They are a part of the costs of keeping those areas semi-livable. We can't ignore those costs because they don't fit the theory.
For someone who prides himself on working in reality you are throwing us for a curve with that statement. While it's entirely possible it's as near to impossible as me living on the moon in my lifetime.

While I agree, urbanism is possible there, everyone here knows it won't happen.
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  #185  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2015, 10:44 PM
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For someone who prides himself on working in reality you are throwing us for a curve with that statement. While it's entirely possible it's as near to impossible as me living on the moon in my lifetime.

While I agree, urbanism is possible there, everyone here knows it won't happen.
I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out that it's possible. If it doesn't happen, it'll be largely because it doesn't suit the needs of those in the neighbourhood - not because it's impossible.
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  #186  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2015, 12:11 AM
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The subdivision's needs are served by the pseudo-expressway cutting through it. The exact thing which will be an enduring impediment to it ever developing an urban centre, like Manitoba Housing has always claimed (lied) that it will.
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  #187  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2015, 3:00 AM
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The subdivision's needs are served by the pseudo-expressway cutting through it. The exact thing which will be an enduring impediment to it ever developing an urban centre, like Manitoba Housing has always claimed (lied) that it will.
That might be a fair assessment, but again, that's because that's how people want it. Is it really that detrimental if people have to drive 5 minutes to Costco and Sobeys? Or Canadian Tire and Home Depot? Why's this a bad thing? Shouldn't we be encouraging those sorts of relatively short trips? If you're going to have single family housing - and you always will - isn't this a decent modern model for it?
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  #188  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2015, 4:22 AM
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The subdivision's needs are served by the pseudo-expressway cutting through it. The exact thing which will be an enduring impediment to it ever developing an urban centre, like Manitoba Housing has always claimed (lied) that it will.
Is crossing two lanes of a one-way Kenaston really that big of an issue? Surely no bigger an issue than walking accross an 8 lane Main Street downtown with no median? Is it the speed limit that's the issue? Because crossing Bishop Grandin (with many more lanes) never seemed to be be an issue for the hundreds that cross it daily from north to south to shop at the St. Vital Mall region...
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  #189  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2015, 4:44 AM
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Is crossing two lanes of a one-way Kenaston really that big of an issue? Surely no bigger an issue than walking accross an 8 lane Main Street downtown with no median? Is it the speed limit that's the issue? Because crossing Bishop Grandin (with many more lanes) never seemed to be be an issue for the hundreds that cross it daily from north to south to shop at the St. Vital Mall region...
Yeah, and at that point - if I'm remembering correctly - Kenaston is actually only two lanes wide. I'm in there every now and then and I'm actually quite surprised by the quaintness of of Bridgwater relative to most other subdivisions. The sidewalks and the visitable standards of a lot of the housing give it a far more 'neighbourhood' like feel. When the area matures, I think it'll be kinda neat.

Not my thing, but I think I get it.
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  #190  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2015, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bdog View Post
Is crossing two lanes of a one-way Kenaston really that big of an issue? Surely no bigger an issue than walking accross an 8 lane Main Street downtown with no median? Is it the speed limit that's the issue? Because crossing Bishop Grandin (with many more lanes) never seemed to be be an issue for the hundreds that cross it daily from north to south to shop at the St. Vital Mall region...
People get hit regularly at that location, especially in the winter. Usually see one or two people every winter laying on the road after being hit. I don't drive that way everyday anymore, but have been for the last six years.

I would say it's an issue and is not safe to be standing two feet away from vehicles travelling 80 km/h or more.
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  #191  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2015, 9:47 PM
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People get hit regularly at that location, especially in the winter. Usually see one or two people every winter laying on the road after being hit. I don't drive that way everyday anymore, but have been for the last six years.

I would say it's an issue and is not safe to be standing two feet away from vehicles travelling 80 km/h or more.
You see two people hit by a car yearly at a single intersection? I've maybe seen two people hit by vehicle in my lifetime.
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  #192  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 12:33 AM
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Actually yeah, I did see two people hit at St Mary's and Bishop in the same year. I would hear about it on the news as well.
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  #193  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 2:30 AM
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hull's or foreplay spring to mind most for this...

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/palomino-...ipeg-1.2598651
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  #194  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 3:56 AM
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You see two people hit by a car yearly at a single intersection? I've maybe seen two people hit by vehicle in my lifetime.
Image of Bomber Jet's commute from a few years back

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  #195  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 6:09 AM
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hull's or foreplay spring to mind most for this...

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/palomino-...ipeg-1.2598651
I actually think this is fantastic. The Pal has drawing power. The fact that it has existed in it's original form for nearly 30 years in an industry that gets stale after 3 years is a testament to its strength of brand. I'm actually really optimistic that it could be a huge success near MTS.

The existing Pal location makes much more sense to me as residential or mixed use. The Pal is a fish out of water more or less where it currently stands.
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  #196  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 10:15 AM
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^That's exciting! I'll miss the classic signage, I hope the new location is even better. I'll miss that cultured stone façade too, but it'll be nice to see something bigger in that spot. Which one is 323 Portage? The green office block on the corner? Was that not involved in the Alt Hotel/Glasshouse project?

edit: I should also say that the Pal is one of the earliest Winnipeg placenames that I can remember. As long as I've known the name I've known it to be a popular place for people to get shot or stabbed--it always seemed to be in the news.
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  #197  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 1:19 PM
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New location will be where 4Play was, across MTS Centre.
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  #198  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
hull's or foreplay spring to mind most for this...

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/palomino-...ipeg-1.2598651
There is also the vacant Masonic Lodge (aka Mother Tuckers) location.

EDIT: Nevermind. Looks like the CBC confirmed the former 4Play location. I like the idea of making the Palomino a pub on the main level and a nightclub in the basement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...tion-1.3260094
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  #199  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 2:36 PM
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The Masonic Temple (aka Mother Tuckers) at Donald and Ellice could have worked well for something like The Pal too. A little surprised it has sat empty this long after the return of the Jets.
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  #200  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2015, 2:39 PM
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Never understood the love for The Pal. What a dump with a lousy crowd, lousy service, lousy atmosphere. Felt awful for any female friends I happened to be there with as they were constantly fending off gropers.
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