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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg View Post
Fixing it?
Last I heard, the Government already made efforts at 'teaching a man to fish' - now tax dollars are-a-flowing to each aboriginal person who attended a residential school. Time to stop throwing good money after bad.
That is hardly 'teaching a man to fish'. The Government screws it up more and more with all the money they throw at the problem, hoping it will go away. I agree with you guys completely on that one.

It comes down to education and opportunity and hope and a sense of pride in one's culture and one's self. I waffle back and forth over whether a government can actually provide any of those, or how much has to come from within.

Trying to apply Western "Individualism" solutions to Aboriginal problems will result with nothing but continued frustration. It doesn't work. Their cultural makeup and the social blood are so different (no matter how far from their culture things have strayed) that different solutions and different ways of approaching the problem are needed.

There is a great local anthropologist named Menno Wiebe who has spent most of his life learning and teaching on reserves and has much to say on the matter. And he will rightly argue that much of our attitude today is still closed because we refuse to learn from their culture and continue to impose our solutions. It ultimately needs to be an honest 2-way discussion. The Aboriginal community already has within its history and spirituality and social system all the tools it needs for healing and re-alignment ... it just needs the vision and leadership and strength to be able to carry them out.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 2:55 AM
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Entire generations of aboriginals (how many? 3 at least...) were forced into residential schools where CHILDREN were often used as slaves, left to die of hunger, etc. by good christian white people. Then the survivors of these children grew up and were sent back to aboriginal communities, and after 40 years or so of legal struggle handed some checks in reparation. What these people ended up doing? Abuse their own children, which in turn will abuse their own children, and so on. It will take double the number of generations abused to solve this; the last residential schools were still active 10 years ago. So white canadians should blame only themselves for having destroyed a civilization (just like spaniards did in Mexico etc.) trying to exploit them just like Hitler did in his camps with Jews. What goes around comes around.

Don't be hypocrite at least for once, it's disgusting.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 3:16 AM
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Originally Posted by spiritedenergy View Post
Entire generations of aboriginals (how many? 3 at least...) were forced into residential schools where CHILDREN were often used as slaves, left to die of hunger, etc. by good christian white people.
You don't think that maybe this is a bit of an exaggeration? Residential schools were an attempt to help natives become educated and modern, which people sincerely believed was the best thing to do at the time. I'm sure many if not most natives believed this too. Schools in general were much tougher places then, and life in general wasn't nearly so comfortable for anyone. I'm sure some people were abused and have legitimate cause for complaint. (I'm also sure the treatment my parents' generation received in their ordinary non-native schools would have entire faculties condemned to prison today for "abuse" as well.) However, it is totally unfair to the many genuinely good people who worked in these schools, and devoted their careers to helping young native people, to paint every residential school as some sort of torture chamber or to start comparing them with Nazi death camps.
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 5:56 AM
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You don't think that maybe this is a bit of an exaggeration?
It is and it isn't. Nazi death camps they were not. I've heard stories on both ends. Some came out scarred for the experience, while others went on to lead prosperous lives. It's the good stories that are missing in media articles.
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 6:40 AM
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Former band chief calls for review

Updated at 10:28 PM

By Aldo Santin

A former First Nations chief who was removed from office by Indian Affairs six years ago is now calling for a forensic audit of his band’s finances.
Dennis Pashe said bills are going unpaid at the Dakota Tipi band, welfare cheques are bouncing and funds set aside for children’s education is being spent to cover travel expenses.

“Where is the money going - that’s basically what people want to know,” Pashe said today.

Dennis Pashe is no stranger to controversy. Pashe had been chief of Dakota Tipi, located west of Portage la Prairie, for 23 years before Indian Affairs removed him from office in 2002 and ordered a new election that was won by his second cousin, Cornell Pashe.

Dennis Pashe held office according to band custom, without elections, and his final years were mired in allegations of corruption and cronyism, of jobs being given to friends and family members, and those who questioned his actions were cut off welfare and lost local services - many of the same allegations he’s now making against Cornell Pashe.
The province also investigated allegations that VLT revenue had been misappropriated. The machines were removed in 2002 and only returned in 2005.

Dakota Tipi is a small community, only about half of the 329 band members live on the reserve.

Dennis Pashe said he was accused of a great deal of wrong-doing but never charged or convicted in relation to how he ran the community.

“Some of things that happened (when I was chief) is nothing compared to what is going on today,” Dennis Pashe said, adding that Cornell Pashe had been the band manager during his last two years as chief.

Dennis Pashe was also charged with assaulting his ex-wife in 2000 but he was acquitted at trial. He didn’t contest the 2002 election but ran for chief in 2004, losing to Cornell Pashe.

Ottawa placed the band’s finances under third party management in 2002, when it was $3.4 million in debt. Under chief Cornell Pashe, the band regained control of its finances in 2006, with its debt reduced to about $700,000.

However, auditors reports for the fiscal years 2002-03 to 2005-06, show that the band had run operating deficits for three of those four years and that the band regularly under-spent its education and social assistance allocations and over-spent for welfare payments and band government allocation.

In those four years, the band had accumulated $988,000 in education money that was not spent and over-spent its band council salaries and expenses by $805,000. Over the four-year period, that band has accumulated a $26,000 deficit.

Dennis Pashe said a superficial reading of the auditors’ report seems to indicate that the band administration is using un-used education dollars to cover band council expenses and other expenses. Dennis Pashe said that Ottawa should conduct a forensic audit of band finances and that the band government should be returned to a third-party management.

Cornell Pashe said the band was placed into deep debt as a result of Dennis Pashe’s administration, adding it’s taken a few years to re-organize band government. Cornell Pashe said that the band was forced to use excess education dollars to pay down its debt and for other expenses, adding he has nothing to hide.

“If Ottawa wants to hold a forensic audit, I’d welcome it,” Cornell Pashe said.
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  #46  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 9:17 AM
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Here's a silly question : Why doesn't the government simply send cheques to individuals instead of to the band administration ? That wouldn't necessarily solve all problems , or any for that matter but it seems like a reasonable question to ask in my opinion. After all, that's what the government does for everybody else.
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  #47  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Here's a silly question : Why doesn't the government simply send cheques to individuals instead of to the band administration ?
That makes sense, doesn't it?

They also have to crack down on band councils running welfare scams. Fort William First Nation was getting cheques under the names of dead people or simply stealing from residents of the community. (That band council was entirely replaced in 2006)
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hexrae View Post
It is and it isn't. Nazi death camps they were not. I've heard stories on both ends. Some came out scarred for the experience, while others went on to lead prosperous lives. It's the good stories that are missing in media articles.
Which is why, I suppose, they call it "common experience' payments - for any/all who attended residential schools and regardless of their experiences.

I have, first hand, seen how those who have received payments have used the money - I wonder how the government will compensate for those who end up dying after receiving such payments, or if that will end up being an expectation 50 years from now.
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  #49  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2008, 1:20 AM
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You guys are real couple of pieces of work.

Maybe you should learn the lyrics for " Deutschland Deutschland Uber Alles "
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2008, 3:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby View Post
You guys are real couple of pieces of work.

Maybe you should learn the lyrics for " Deutschland Deutschland Uber Alles "
Who you callin' a guy?

And you really need to relax a bit - maybe mix yourself a nice strong one and take a couple pills ending in 'pam'....but not at the same time.
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2008, 3:36 AM
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Why is it that when non-aborigionals express opinions that aren't 100% in agreement with aborigionals, are branded as racistsb by many, yet clearly aren't upon carefully reading their posts?

Time to put the race card down for a while, folks, because sometimes it just ain't true.
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2008, 3:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg View Post
Who you callin' a guy?

And you really need to relax a bit - maybe mix yourself a nice strong one and take a couple pills ending in 'pam'....but not at the same time.
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 4:06 AM
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We pretend race has nothing to do with it

By TOM BRODBECK | Winnipeg Sun |March 13, 2008


A Manitoba Court of Appeal ruling upholding the rights of bar owners on Indian reserves to ignore the province's indoor smoking ban is really a moot ruling.

Treherne bar owner Robert Jenkinson has been fighting for what he believes are his constitutional rights to be treated equally when it comes to the enforcement of Manitoba's smoking ban.

Jenkinson argues he's being discriminated against based on race because he has to follow the indoor smoking ban and aboriginal-owned bars on reserves do not.

He lost that fight yesterday when Manitoba's highest court said he was not discriminated against based on race.

Welcome to the world of native policy in Canada where we have two sets of laws for two sets of people, but we pretend race has nothing to do with it.

Tiptoe

Whether it's taxation, hunting, or indoor smoking bans, we have one set of laws for treaty Indians and another set of laws for everyone else.

We tiptoe around it with bogus court rulings like we saw yesterday.

But let's face it. There are two, often contradictory, sets of laws in this country -- one for First Nations and one for everybody else.

It's beyond me how the Court of Appeal could have ruled the exemptions reserves enjoy, such as ignoring provincial smoking bans, are not based on the race of the people who make up those reserves.

The court argued it's not Jenkinson's race that was in question. It was simply he didn't happen to own a bar on a reserve.

"If Jenkinson were to carry on business on a reserve -- the possibility of which may arguably be described as remote, but not impossible under the Indian Act -- he would enjoy the benefit of the exemption," the court wrote.

"His race would not dictate whether the smoking ban provisions applied; rather, it would be the location of his business."

So the court acknowledges it's nearly impossible for a white, non-native person to operate a bar on a reserve, yet they say the two sets of rules have nothing to do with race?

It's a bit of a stretch when you consider reserves were set up under the Indian Act based on the race of the people the federal government shuffled into them.

The entire Indian Act is based on race. So how can the rules that govern reserves not be based on race?

It makes no sense.

Yet the court insists the only thing that matters in this case is Jenkinson simply didn't own a bar on a reserve and basically, tough luck for him.

The court goes on to suggest it's within Jenkinson's control to own a bar on a reserve, which is ludicrous.

Two sets of laws

"I agree with the Crown that the distinction is premised on what he does and where he does it," the court ruled. "Both of these are within his control."

They are? Jenkinson can fix his problem by simply setting up shop on a reserve?

Obviously not.

None of this really matters, anyway. Because the fact we have two sets of laws for two sets of people based on their race has been settled years ago.

Courts can call it whatever they want and claim this type of segregation has nothing to do with race, but we all know it does.

Even without the province's smoking ban exemption for Indian reserves, First Nations -- under the Indian Act -- can still bring in their own smoking bylaws that would override the provincial ban.

They've been doing it in places like Yorkton, Sask., -- which has an urban reserve -- for years.

One set of laws for one race, a different set of laws for another.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
We pretend race has nothing to do with it

By TOM BRODBECK | Winnipeg Sun |March 13, 2008


A Manitoba Court of Appeal ruling upholding the rights of bar owners on Indian reserves to ignore the province's indoor smoking ban is really a moot ruling.

Treherne bar owner Robert Jenkinson has been fighting for what he believes are his constitutional rights to be treated equally when it comes to the enforcement of Manitoba's smoking ban.

Jenkinson argues he's being discriminated against based on race because he has to follow the indoor smoking ban and aboriginal-owned bars on reserves do not.

He lost that fight yesterday when Manitoba's highest court said he was not discriminated against based on race.

Welcome to the world of native policy in Canada where we have two sets of laws for two sets of people, but we pretend race has nothing to do with it.

Tiptoe

Whether it's taxation, hunting, or indoor smoking bans, we have one set of laws for treaty Indians and another set of laws for everyone else.

We tiptoe around it with bogus court rulings like we saw yesterday.

But let's face it. There are two, often contradictory, sets of laws in this country -- one for First Nations and one for everybody else.

It's beyond me how the Court of Appeal could have ruled the exemptions reserves enjoy, such as ignoring provincial smoking bans, are not based on the race of the people who make up those reserves.

The court argued it's not Jenkinson's race that was in question. It was simply he didn't happen to own a bar on a reserve.

"If Jenkinson were to carry on business on a reserve -- the possibility of which may arguably be described as remote, but not impossible under the Indian Act -- he would enjoy the benefit of the exemption," the court wrote.

"His race would not dictate whether the smoking ban provisions applied; rather, it would be the location of his business."

So the court acknowledges it's nearly impossible for a white, non-native person to operate a bar on a reserve, yet they say the two sets of rules have nothing to do with race?

It's a bit of a stretch when you consider reserves were set up under the Indian Act based on the race of the people the federal government shuffled into them.

The entire Indian Act is based on race. So how can the rules that govern reserves not be based on race?

It makes no sense.

Yet the court insists the only thing that matters in this case is Jenkinson simply didn't own a bar on a reserve and basically, tough luck for him.

The court goes on to suggest it's within Jenkinson's control to own a bar on a reserve, which is ludicrous.

Two sets of laws

"I agree with the Crown that the distinction is premised on what he does and where he does it," the court ruled. "Both of these are within his control."

They are? Jenkinson can fix his problem by simply setting up shop on a reserve?

Obviously not.

None of this really matters, anyway. Because the fact we have two sets of laws for two sets of people based on their race has been settled years ago.

Courts can call it whatever they want and claim this type of segregation has nothing to do with race, but we all know it does.

Even without the province's smoking ban exemption for Indian reserves, First Nations -- under the Indian Act -- can still bring in their own smoking bylaws that would override the provincial ban.

They've been doing it in places like Yorkton, Sask., -- which has an urban reserve -- for years.

One set of laws for one race, a different set of laws for another.
This is not about race, the author is clearly ignorant of something called legal jurisdiction. Reserves are self-governed and akin to a province, meaning provincial laws have no jurisdiction. The only laws that apply are federal laws and local laws. It would be beyond the scope of the provincial government legal authority to enforce their laws on another jurisdiction. This is the equivalent of a Dauphin bar owner claiming a local bylaw imposing minimum drink pricing was discriminatory because the bar owner in Brandon doesn't have to follow such a rule.

I can understand the common person not have such an understanding of the reality of the laws concerning First Nations, but we should expect more from journalists.
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 5:17 AM
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^ who funds/controls the provincial health care system?

That should trump the juristictional arguments where smoking is concerned.
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 7:25 AM
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^ who funds/controls the provincial health care system?

That should trump the juristictional arguments where smoking is concerned.
First Nations citizens receive their health care via the federal government, so it doesn't trump anything. It's like Saskatchewan telling Manitoba to raise there drinking age since it isn't "fair".
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 7:58 AM
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Too bad there aren't more Chief Clarence Louie's in this country!!! Anyone and everyone should google this man or do whatever you can to tell aboriginal people to listen to his word.

http://www.naaf.ca/html/c_louis_e.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...=M1ARTM0013137
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 2:41 PM
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Too bad there aren't more Chief Clarence Louie's in this country!!! Anyone and everyone should google this man or do whatever you can to tell aboriginal people to listen to his word.

http://www.naaf.ca/html/c_louis_e.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...=M1ARTM0013137
Or we could just let them decide on it themselves...for a change. Frankly, his message may be o.k. coming from an "insider", but I, as an "outsider" do not feel it my place to comment in it, especially to tell First Nations people what they should think of it. I think it is great to hold up he and his band as a counter example to all of the stereotypes, but it would be overly simplistic, like all of our attempts to "help" First Nations, to argue that his is the best and only path out of the mess we have all created.

Before anyone goes and accuses me of being a "liberal" or whatever, I think it is perfectly appropriate for anyone to have their own expectations regarding lateness etc., and to enforce that on anyone they employ, but I don't think it is appropriate to insist that everyone share our values, or conform to any particular behaviour unless it directly impacts on us (for example and emplyee). THerefore, I do not believe it is appropriate for anyone outside of the First Nations culture to comment on whether "Indian time" is "true" or not. I do believe it is fair for each of us to decide whether we would accomodate it or not if we are entering into a bussiness relationship.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
Too bad there aren't more Chief Clarence Louie's in this country!!! Anyone and everyone should google this man or do whatever you can to tell aboriginal people to listen to his word.

http://www.naaf.ca/html/c_louis_e.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...=M1ARTM0013137
Native bands in BC have a natural advantage in economic opportunity over those on the prairies. It is much easier for them to find profitable business to compete within due to location for tourism, climate for wine or natural resources for mining/timber. Most bands on the prairies occupy land that has no value beyond farming. To compare Chief Louis' success in BC to failures in Manitoba and Saskatchewan would be improper and akin to saying that those living in a desert should grow wheat. It is easier said then done.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 5:40 PM
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Native bands in BC have a natural advantage in economic opportunity over those on the prairies. It is much easier for them to find profitable business to compete within due to location for tourism, climate for wine or natural resources for mining/timber. Most bands on the prairies occupy land that has no value beyond farming. To compare Chief Louis' success in BC to failures in Manitoba and Saskatchewan would be improper and akin to saying that those living in a desert should grow wheat. It is easier said then done.
His message went right over your head hey???? Jesus you make Saskatchewan sounds like a barren wasteland. Makes you wonder how its possible that there are literally hundreds of civilized communities in this province all the while leading the country in economic growth.

That said, his message is straight forward and to the point and he deserves accolades for turning his band around and not being afraid of telling it like it is.
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