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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MooseJets View Post
I wonder how many sets of traffic lights the Chief Peguis extension will have?

4 - Henderson Hwy, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 3:21 PM
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 5:26 PM
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There is no way this project can be justified given current construction costs. Wait for the next recession, if ever.
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 6:17 PM
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There is no way this project can be justified given current construction costs. Wait for the next recession, if ever.
^ I would venture to guess that you don't live in NE Winnipeg, those of us living in NE Winnipeg have waited for close to 30 years for this project to proceed as south Winnipeg roadways were transformed and modernized, ex. Sterling Lyon, Bishop Grandin, etc. We too pay taxes, some of us more than most in south Winnipeg!
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 6:39 PM
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There is no way this project can be justified given current construction costs. Wait for the next recession, if ever.
Actually , there's probably a good case to be made that it's the cheaper alternative in the long run. The roads that carry all the East/West traffic right now were never meant to and the solution is to either reconstruct them all (and in the very short term probably) or allow them to slip beyond tolerable maintenance standards.
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 7:15 PM
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I'm just saying that at some point, when the cost of a project doubles, you have to reevaluate it's value. I would say the same for any project in south Winnipeg. I don't live in the north or south end, but more central.

I suppose the only rationale I can find for doing it now, is that it may cost more to do it later. But I have a hard time thinking this is the best way to spend $65M.
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 10:58 PM
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I believe it is a P3 project ... as the Charleswood Parkway is. The City's contribution to construction will only be a fraction of the total cost.
You would think that would be a given if the city is only going to spend $65 million and people are expecting more than one interchange. How long is the extension supposed to be? Realistically, $65 million is not going to get you much.
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2007, 11:31 PM
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You would think that would be a given if the city is only going to spend $65 million and people are expecting more than one interchange. How long is the extension supposed to be? Realistically, $65 million is not going to get you much.
About 3 km, give or take a few.
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2007, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
I'm just saying that at some point, when the cost of a project doubles, you have to reevaluate it's value. I would say the same for any project in south Winnipeg. I don't live in the north or south end, but more central.

I suppose the only rationale I can find for doing it now, is that it may cost more to do it later. But I have a hard time thinking this is the best way to spend $65M.
The fact is they were using labour rates from an 80's report.. of course it was out of date. Prices have gone up since 1986.

Buracrats basing there estimates on out of date info just doesn't work.
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2007, 3:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
4 - Henderson Hwy, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.

That's already too many lights. According to the drawing in yesterday's Free Press the Peguis extension will also cross Religh and Springfield Road. So we're looking at possibly 6 sets of lights!
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2007, 4:09 AM
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2007, 4:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MooseJets View Post
That's already too many lights. According to the drawing in yesterday's Free Press the Peguis extension will also cross Religh and Springfield Road. So we're looking at possibly 6 sets of lights!
Living in cowtown, I don't have access to everything. Is there design picks you can post online?
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2007, 5:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
4 - Henderson Hwy, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.
I heard somewhere that Rothesay is going to be a no-access flyover.

I wish they budgeted a little bit more to create a simple overpass at Raleigh / Gateway.
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2007, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MooseJets View Post
That's already too many lights. According to the drawing in yesterday's Free Press the Peguis extension will also cross Religh and Springfield Road. So we're looking at possibly 6 sets of lights!
The plan is actually to sever Raliegh at Donwood to the south and Gilmore to the North (so no intersection). They are also severing Springfield Rd after the access to Dunits Drive to the West and just after the automotive businesses on the east end by the lake (so no intersection). There is only the possibility of 4 intersections - Henderson, Rothesay, Gateway and Lagimodiere.

The Rothesay flyover might be a no go because they underestimated the cost of moving all of the utilities in the area to accomodate the underpass. Apparently the actual flyover would only cost approx $4 to $5 mil but the prep work might make it cost prohibitive.
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2007, 3:28 PM
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Well, at least the traffic lights should be synchronized by then. Going down Route 90 on Kenaston the other day was a breeze.
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 3:16 PM
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Rising costs force changes in city's Chief Peguis plans
Residents fear trail's new design will end quiet neighbourhood

By: Joe Paraskevas

Updated: March 17, 2008 at 02:00 AM CDT


Residents of North Kildonan and people who attend a church there fear the latest plans for the proposed Chief Peguis Trail extension will signal an end to their quiet neighbourhood.

Rising infrastructure costs have forced the city to drastically alter the project, surprising residents of Douglas Avenue and Rothesay Street and members of the Douglas Mennonite Church.





Residents had been led to believe the major new road would sweep underneath Rothesay, but new plans now have Chief Peguis east from Henderson Highway to Lagimodiere Boulevard meeting Rothesay at a level, traffic-light-controlled intersection.

City sources say building an underpass as initially planned would cost millions of dollars more than had been expected.

The change is a huge cause of concern for residents in the area, many of whom will now find their homes behind a 3.6-metre-high concrete sound barrier as they also face increased traffic jams and pedestrian safety concerns.

Even to area residents who had known since they bought their homes that the Chief Peguis extension was on the drawing board at city hall, the design changes are disappointing.

"We bought the house knowing the freeway was coming, but not a barrier in our front yard and not a four-way (intersection), which I'm deeply concerned about because we have elementary school children and they'll be crossing six lanes of traffic," said one resident whose house will look onto the new road and who asked not to be identified.

"I'm not sure who would buy our house after we have such a thing to look out on," the resident added, referring to the concrete sound barrier.

An engineer with the city's public works department said the same number of houses would be hidden behind the barriers whether the city built an underpass or a level intersection. The same official admitted, however, that an underpass would have meant Chief Peguis would be built about five metres below the level of Rothesay, further buffering the sound.

Recently, the city held an open house at Douglas Mennonite. The city revealed plans for a level intersection as well as plans for the new road and it solicited feedback from the public.

The church is situated at what would be the corner of Rothesay and the Chief Peguis Trail. Under the new plan, the pulpit of the church will be less than a stone's throw from a major traffic-light intersection of double-lane roads.

More than 500 people attended the meeting at Douglas Mennonite Church and by Friday the city had received more than 250 replies to its survey and request for comments.

The city originally gave residents eight days to be heard, but it extended that deadline on the public works department web page to March 19.

"This is still in the preliminary design stage," said Neil Myska, streets planning engineer for the department of public works.

"So, that's the option that has been presented to the public to get comments," Myska added, referring to the level-crossing design. "Based on the comments that we get back, there can be a number of changes made to the plan. So, it's not set in stone yet. There's a possibility of change."

George Klassen, a spokesman for Douglas Mennonite's 500-member congregation on the new road plans, said the church would lose some of its property for a turning lane with a four-way intersection. Such a move could hamper the church's growth, he added.

"I really question the wisdom of (a level intersection)" said Klassen, a project manager for a Winnipeg construction company.

Don Rempel Boschman, the church's senior pastor, said traffic lights at Rothesay and Chief Peguis would lead to congestion, traffic noise and safety problems for children heading to three area schools.

"The design change changes a lot of things," Rempel Boschman said. "For our church, in summer and late spring you have your windows open on a Sunday morning. Right now it's very quiet, but suddenly our church windows will be open on a very, very busy intersection."

The first design of an underpass at Rothesay and Chief Peguis would almost double the cost of the entire extension project, increasing it by $40 million to $60 million, Myska said.

Asked if the city now rejected the possibility of an underpass, Myska was unsure. "I can't answer that, at this point," he said.

The proposed $64-million Chief Peguis Trail extension is one of the biggest infrastructure projects on the city's horizon.

It is scheduled to be completed by 2010.

North Kildonan Coun. Jeff Browaty said the addition of land drainage pumps and other construction costs had pushed up the price of an underpass at Chief Peguis and Rothesay.

Civic officials made the decision to replace the underpass with traffic lights after a private company conducted a design study last year, said Browaty.

"It certainly is an inconvenience for the church," he added.

Final designs for Chief Peguis aren't slated to be ready until early 2009, Browaty added. Residents have until next Wednesday to submit feedback for the current design, he said. There is no hurry to submit feedback for the final design plans.

joe.paraskevas@freepress.mb.ca

Chief Peguis Trail history

Chief Peguis Trail was identified as part of the city's Inner Ring Route in the 1968 Winnipeg Area Transportation study.

Phase 1 of the trail linking Main Street and Henderson Highway, including the Kildonan Settlers Bridge, opened in October 1990.

More than 26,000 daily trips are made over the bridge today. Springfield Road, a collector street, carried about 5,900 vehicles per day before the bridge opened. Now, it carries more than 18,000.

The Chief Peguis Trail extension is being planned with accompanying paved multi-use paths and a 200-space Transit Park Ride stop at Henderson Highway.

Plans call for the closure of Raleigh Street between Donwood Drive and Gilmore Avenue and between Algonquin Avenue and Knowles Avenue.

City council chose the Peguis project for a public-private partnership.
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  #77  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 4:45 PM
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What a joke.

Although, its not like any of us didn't see this one coming. Winnipeg has a proud history of doing things half assed to save a few bucks, why break that tradition?
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 5:59 PM
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Should NK residents be concerned that an at-grade highway will do to their neighborhood what the Disraeli did to Point Douglas?
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 7:35 PM
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^That's apples and oranges though.

The Disraeli isn't at grade. Point Douglas was already in decline (although it's certainly fair to point out that the freeway didn't help) There has always been a plan to construct the CPT extension and its construction doesn't actually change the fact that there is a corridor that bisects the area already.

Anyway, we can argue about cost as well but in the long run this is the cheaper route even with cost-overruns. Sprinfield, McLeod, Knowles...all of these streets are carrying the traffic that the CPT extension is supposed to. These strees aren't designed for the kind of traffic they are handling. If we have to rebuild all of them it will cost us far more than to simply construct the CPT extension. Aside from that, these streets are residential collectors not arteries meaning that this also presents a safety concern as traffic increases. If we want to stop any future CPTs then the solution is to re-think the planning principles down at city hall. It's too late for this particular area but in future we might be able to avoid this sort of dilemma.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 7:43 PM
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What a joke.

Although, its not like any of us didn't see this one coming. Winnipeg has a proud history of doing things half assed to save a few bucks, why break that tradition?
Well, this city is already known for being the frugal and thrifty type out of the other cities in Canada, so we're bound with it. One of many reasons why we have a Red Apple downtown.

I'm no traffic engineer, but I think an at-grade crossing of Rothesay and Chief Peguis is a bad idea, and I mean, very bad. If the city wants things done right, they have to stick to the original plan!

Unfortunately, that last part is null, all because the city caved in due to rising costs. "Oh man, the costs are rising! Better take out that underpass instead!"

It would be very unusual to be stopping every 900 metres with the speed limit at 80 km/h at every intersection between Henderson and the Lag. Then again, they should implement traffic light synchronization to it by then.
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