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  #121  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Wouldn't that mean there is something wrong with the system, and not the individual?
To a certain extent; e. g. cost of living has gone up. But the individual must and should step up and assume their share of the responsibility. A lot of the parents I see posting above took responsibility of being able to provide for their children; education, careers, stability, etc.
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  #122  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
To a certain extent; e. g. cost of living has gone up. But the individual must and should step up and assume their share of the responsibility. A lot of the parents I see posting above took responsibility of being able to provide for their children; education, careers, stability, etc.
If poor people weren't having kids there would be a hell of a lot fewer people. Most of us reading this thread probably wouldn't be here. So, I think the finger is pointed in the wrong direction.

The eight richest people on Earth have the same amount of wealth as the poorest 4 billion people on Earth. If poor people have a responsibility to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, then rich people also have a responsibility to not be so greedy. If rich people want to continue to hoard resources, then we have to be okay with creating a very large social safety net. I don't think capitalism will survive without a compromise on one or the other.

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/meet-t...conomic-forum/
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  #123  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
If poor people weren't having kids there would be a hell of a lot fewer people. Most of us reading this thread probably wouldn't be here. So, I think the finger is pointed in the wrong direction.

The eight richest people on Earth have the same amount of wealth as the poorest 4 billion people on Earth. If poor people have a responsibility to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, then rich people also have a responsibility to not be so greedy. If rich people want to continue to hoard resources, then we have to be okay with creating a very large social safety net. I don't think capitalism will survive without a compromise on one or the other.

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/meet-t...conomic-forum/
Jeff Bezos is worth $120 billion because Amazon is worth $850 billion and the vast majority of his wealth is tied up in Amazon. And Amazon is worth that much because of investors' confidence in him and that company. All that wealth is on paper...or in some computer. He and that entire company along with the other billionaires on your list can vanish tomorrow and the worlds' poor will stay poor.

Here in this country, I've seen a lot of people over the years who could barely take care of themselves then have a couple of kids with an unstable partner and then wind up on public assistance...because kids are expensive. Never went to college or invested in their career but that's not some tech billionaire's fault.
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  #124  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Someone obviously raised you. You owe it to humanity to pay it forward. This is why I favor gay adoption. Why should homosexual people get off the hook from raising children?

If your don’t have kids, supporting children in need in other ways with all that money you save, seems the most logical and moral thing to do.
Even without religion, people will still come up with higher moral grounds to justify forcing people to do anything.
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  #125  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
If poor people weren't having kids there would be a hell of a lot fewer people. Most of us reading this thread probably wouldn't be here. So, I think the finger is pointed in the wrong direction.

The eight richest people on Earth have the same amount of wealth as the poorest 4 billion people on Earth. If poor people have a responsibility to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, then rich people also have a responsibility to not be so greedy. If rich people want to continue to hoard resources, then we have to be okay with creating a very large social safety net. I don't think capitalism will survive without a compromise on one or the other.

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/meet-t...conomic-forum/
The issue with this article is it's conflating assets with income and GDP. 40 billion is a pittance in the grand scheme of things. If Bezos liquidated his entire fortune and donated it, that's a mere $100 divided among just the American population. There are billions of individual choices and structural inefficiencies that lead to poverty and inequality around the world.

Most of modern society is built around eternal competition and growth - of energy, of labor, of resources, of land, of lifespan, of customers - and has been for several hundred years. Prosperity only happens when all those are in equilibrium, which is rare.

Is it much of a surprise that rising inequality starting in the 80s just happens to coincide with the greatest working population boom this world has ever experienced.? Just as cheap energy and new technology are reducing the need for labor?

Having fewer children is the peaceful modern answer to a problem that would have traditionally been resolved by pillaging neighbors and executing kings.
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  #126  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 9:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Even without religion, people will still come up with higher moral grounds to justify forcing people to do anything.
Who’s forcing you?
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  #127  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
The issue with this article is it's conflating assets with income and GDP. 40 billion is a pittance in the grand scheme of things. If Bezos liquidated his entire fortune and donated it, that's a mere $100 divided among just the American population. There are billions of individual choices and structural inefficiencies that lead to poverty and inequality around the world.

Most of modern society is built around eternal competition and growth - of energy, of labor, of resources, of land, of lifespan, of customers - and has been for several hundred years. Prosperity only happens when all those are in equilibrium, which is rare.

Is it much of a surprise that rising inequality starting in the 80s just happens to coincide with the greatest working population boom this world has ever experienced.? Just as cheap energy and new technology are reducing the need for labor?

Having fewer children is the peaceful modern answer to a problem that would have traditionally been resolved by pillaging neighbors and executing kings.
So... I actually do think there are too many humans on Earth. But I get off the train when we start to insinuate that social status should encourage certain people to reproduce and others not to. I'm not anti-birth control -- people should have the right to choose either way.

Also, without derailing this thread too much, the wealth imbalance is a pretty good proxy of inequality, and I think we would agree that we're in an era of pronounced inequality. My point is that people who financially benefited the most from technological advances will have to accept that they, or the companies from which they derive their wealth, will be leaned on to fund a larger social safety net. Or, they will have to accept that their dynasties will be targeted for monopolistic concerns.
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  #128  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2019, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Who’s forcing you?
My own desires that don’t conflict with other people’s basic desires. If I want kids and have the means to have them successfully, I will.
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  #129  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2019, 1:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Someone obviously raised you. You owe it to humanity to pay it forward. This is why I favor gay adoption. Why should homosexual people get off the hook from raising children?

If your don’t have kids, supporting children in need in other ways with all that money you save, seems the most logical and moral thing to do.
How does this crap belong in a City Discussion?
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  #130  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2019, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
My own desires that don’t conflict with other people’s basic desires. If I want kids and have the means to have them successfully, I will.
Ok great, but what I’m saying is if you don’t have kids, in my opinion you are morally (if not legally and financially) obligated to contribute to the next generation in other ways. Particularly monetarily, like 10023.

Many people who don’t have kids make huge differences in the lives of children that they don’t happen to be related to. I wish we had more of this.
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  #131  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2019, 1:59 AM
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How does this crap belong in a City Discussion?
How are you so offended?
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  #132  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2019, 3:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Ok great, but what I’m saying is if you don’t have kids, in my opinion you are morally (if not legally and financially) obligated to contribute to the next generation in other ways. Particularly monetarily, like 10023.

Many people who don’t have kids make huge differences in the lives of children that they don’t happen to be related to. I wish we had more of this.
Okay, great, but what you're saying here has nothing to do with the topic, and has no place in a City Discussion.
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