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  #141  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by alexjon View Post
Part of the problem is land-ownership difficulties-- it's VERY difficult to wrench free enough useable land within the loop, which is why this sort of thing grows like weeds in SA.

I think that if there were a strict UGB and a little more freedom to buy/sell property a bit more easily, you'd see more development on the inner roads. But, as it stands, property is hard to come by within the loop.
Where would one find 120-acres of ideal undeveloped land within 410?
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  #142  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 8:04 PM
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Where would one find 120-acres of ideal undeveloped land within 410?
The west side.

... wait, no. Sorry, that's the eastside hater in me, haha.

I'm trying to think, and I can't seem to find it in my head in a place that wouldn't require a total neighborhood relo.
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  #143  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 8:20 PM
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In terms of the west side, a lot of the undeveloped land along 151 is owned by the military because of Lackland and former Kelly AFB.
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  #144  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 8:34 PM
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I was implying we bulldoze the whole west side.

But I don't mean that. I promise!
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  #145  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 8:41 PM
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Oh, lol. That flew over my head.
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  #146  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Wait, so one reluctantly does and the other encourages. Give me a break. Also, please don't try to compare this development with anything being built off any interstate frontage roads up there. Please don't.
It doesn't matter how sustainable the inside of the development is - if it is stuck on a frontage road, it will not be sustainable, ever, as far as transportation goes, which is a huge part of overall sustainability. If you don't understand how critical this is, I'd be happy to explain further.
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  #147  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 9:01 PM
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It doesn't matter how sustainable the inside of the development is - if it is stuck on a frontage road, it will not be sustainable, ever, as far as transportation goes, which is a huge part of overall sustainability. If you don't understand how critical this is, I'd be happy to explain further.
It is sustainable transportation wise, it may not be the best sustainability achievable but the attempt is commendatory with it being 20 miles northwest of the urban core. Any access to any development that far out will require frontage/access road usage. Whether it's adjacent to the frontage or half a mile inward. Question, what is problem with anything SA? You criticized Quarry Market and now Eilan. Would you criticize The Landmark?
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  #148  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 9:31 PM
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SA is just like the entire rest of the south and central portions of texas-- building sprawl and fringe developments like these because of problems in the center city; it's the same in Austin, too.
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  #149  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 9:49 PM
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I don't have a major problem with suburban development if its done responsibly. Developments like La Joya, The Landmark, The Reflection, Eilan and some others I can tolerate.e
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  #150  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
You're just hating for the sake of hating. You have no reason to bash this project other than it being built in the suburbs. Sustainable, yes. Just ignore the 1,400 luxury apartment units being built why don't you. This won't be a development that needs outside consumerism. Did you bash Las Colinas in Plano for building directly off a freeway and frontage road? lol

Just have a read:

Eilan
http://www.cbre.com/NR/rdonlyres/E7F...AL012907LR.pdf
Just a small correction,the Las Colinas suburban/business park is in Irving, but I agree with you and Alex about Eilan.
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  #151  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2007, 10:07 PM
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You are correct, Irving. I also get the DFW suburbs mixed up.
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  #152  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2007, 8:07 AM
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Agora Palms officially announced.



Quote:
2 deals announced

Web Posted: 11/30/2007 08:34 PM CST

Creighton A. Welch
Express-News Business Writers

An emerging player in medical office real estate is going to boost its portfolio by at least 300,000 square feet with two San Antonio health-care buildings, in the South Texas Medical Center and Stone Oak.

As part of a 69-acre mixed-use project announced Friday, called Agora Palms, DAG Healthcare, a division of San Antonio-based Dominion Advisory Group Inc., plans to build medical offices on what is one of the largest undeveloped land tracts left in Stone Oak. The site is north of Loop 1604 and sandwiched between Hardy Oak Boulevard and U.S. 281.

The land connects to the site of the Methodist Stone Oak Hospital, which will open next year.

"With the continued growth in the Stone Oak area, our goal is to create an upscale development that serves the space users around us," said Larry Baumgardner, principal at DAG.

DAG also announced Friday its November acquisition of the South Texas Cardiovascular Center in the Medical Center.

The Stone Oak area includes several of the ZIP codes with the highest average household income in town, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. That has made it a lucrative market for hospital companies and doctors.

Not only are residents in the Stone Oak area well heeled with good insurance, but they are also approaching the age when medical needs increase.

By 2013, the population of those 65 and older is expected to have grown 65.2 percent in 10 years in the 13 ZIP codes in and around Stone Oak. For all of Bexar County, that growth rate is 24.6 percent.

Baptist Health System doubled the size of its hospital in Stone Oak for $80 million, and the Methodist hospital will be a $160 million facility.

"The key reason we bought that land was because of the Methodist hospital," said Lee Jackson, vice president of DAG Healthcare. "And this area is the new wealth of San Antonio."

That wealth has attracted numerous medical businesses and physician offices, turning the area into a major medical cluster that eventually could rival the medical assets downtown.

Ten years ago, there was little office space in the Stone Oak area, but now there is 1.5 million square feet, said Kimberly Gatley, director of research at NAI REOC Partners, which monitors the San Antonio commercial real estate market.

"We've now seen a lot of those medical buildings popping up in the area," Gatley said. "This is really going to substantiate that area."

And though a 69-acre development may not be considered a lot of land in some parts of town, it's becoming harder to find open space in Stone Oak.

"Sixty-nine acres in Stone Oak is a substantial development because the land up there is so limited," Gatley said. "This is a new wrinkle in the scheme of things, and I think it's very significant."

The first building at Agora Palms will be a 120,000-square-foot medical facility. Construction will start on it in the third quarter of 2008. The project eventually will include a wellness and fitness center, residential components, a senior living center, more office space, retail and restaurants.

This is a long-term plan that DAG expects to develop out during the next 10 years. The company has few details except that Agora Palms eventually will have 1.2 million square feet of total product.


In November, DAG also acquired the South Texas Cardiovascular Center, which has 66,000 square feet of medical office space at the Medical Center. Beginning in the summer of 2008, DAG will expand the center by 120,000 square feet.

"We want to it to be not just cardiologists, but we're going to be expanding to include other specialists and primary-care doctors," Jackson said.

DAG has been involved in medical office building real estate since October, when the company acquired the 65,000-square-foot Physician's Plaza II, also at the Medical Center.

"This is just the beginning for DAG Healthcare," Baumgardner said. "We can only grow as fast as the market allows, and we are very fortunate to be able to set a good pace now."
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  #153  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2007, 8:08 AM
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Town Creek along with Creekside are going to both change the face of New Braunfels.











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  #154  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2007, 4:41 PM
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I wonder how San Antonio metro compares to other cities across the country with these kinda urban projects?

Any news on Cibolo's new downtown?
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San Antonio economy and largest economic sectors. Annual contribution towards GDP.
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  #155  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by alexjon View Post
SA is just like the entire rest of the south and central portions of texas-- building sprawl and fringe developments like these because of problems in the center city; it's the same in Austin, too.
No, there's a big difference - yes, Austin suburbs do the same stuff, but Austin itself has so far successfully resisted plans to make 360 into what 1610 is in San Antonio (both in terms of roadway design and in not just approving every single development on the road). And thus, there aren't access roads out there, and the sprawl is qualitatively and quantitatively different.

To see something like the 1610 awfulness, you have to go outside the city limits, in other words - Cedar Park / Round Rock / Pflugerville.

We've also tried (succeeded sometimes, failed other times) to maintain more of a network of major arterial roadways as an alternative - the Riata development I pointed to in one of the more recent posts is one of the few cases inside Austin that ISN'T accessible from major arterials instead of the frontage road.
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  #156  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 3:20 PM
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Ha ha, you wrote "1610!" Must be from elsewhere.
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  #157  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by M1EK View Post
No, there's a big difference - yes, Austin suburbs do the same stuff, but Austin itself has so far successfully resisted plans to make 360 into what 1610 is in San Antonio (both in terms of roadway design and in not just approving every single development on the road). And thus, there aren't access roads out there, and the sprawl is qualitatively and quantitatively different.

To see something like the 1610 awfulness, you have to go outside the city limits, in other words - Cedar Park / Round Rock / Pflugerville.

We've also tried (succeeded sometimes, failed other times) to maintain more of a network of major arterial roadways as an alternative - the Riata development I pointed to in one of the more recent posts is one of the few cases inside Austin that ISN'T accessible from major arterials instead of the frontage road.
1604 in most areas is still a country road of sorts; the reason it is the way it is now is because the area has boomed so quickly. Furthermore, a lot of developments move outward since there's plenty of space and quick access to major roads. In the central city, you have to contend with far more historic districts than in Austin, military bases, larger industrial areas, etc.

And let's not forget that San Antonio has annexed a lot of our suburbs-- so we can go ahead and equalize the Austin and San Antonio areas in that.

And I don't think you quite understand San Antonio as well as you think. 1604 is 110+ miles long, how long is 360? 410, the road you are probably thinking of, is 50 miles long.
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  #158  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 7:34 PM
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No, actually, I was thinking of 1604 - I'm remembering the many drives to Sea World. It's exactly what the state legislature and developers would have liked 360 to turn into here in Austin (same terrain; very different development).

We've annexed just about all we can annex too - lots of previously unincorporated but developed crap has been brought within the city limits - but if you think there hasn't been any difference in the effect of policy in the two cities, you don't know much about the region. (Austin only got to keep about 1/3 of the land-use laws they tried to stick on our part of the Hill Country, so keep that in mind too - most of the other 2/3 was overridden by the state, then reinstated by the courts years later - in the meantime, lots of bad development happened, and the city has chosen not to make people tear down the stuff they built on the incorrect theory that most of them didn't know any better).
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  #159  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul in S.A TX View Post
I wonder how San Antonio metro compares to other cities across the country with these kinda urban projects?

Any news on Cibolo's new downtown?
Probably right along many other cities (metro areas) of similar size. I would say Orlando.
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  #160  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2007, 12:56 AM
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Probably right along many other cities (metro areas) of similar size. I would say Orlando.
Since Paul was asking about the new urbanism like developments, you need to remove Orlando from any list you came up with. Have you ever been to Orlando, outside of a trip to Disney World?
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