Lamenting the decline of the car

[SpongeG]

this might fit in here

As electric vehicles age, here's how the batteries are finding a second life

With EV sales projected to hit 130 million by 2030, the industry faces a potential battery waste problem

Jason Vermes · CBC Radio · Posted: Nov 09, 2019

In his pursuit to completely get off fossil fuels, David Elderton has switched anything with a motor — from his car to his chainsaws — over to battery power.

Even the three-bedroom home he shares with his partner on B.C.'s Salt Spring Island is powered, in part, by a battery from a wrecked Tesla Model S he bought last year; it charges via solar panels mounted on his shed.

The size of two large coolers side by side, he says the battery can keep the lights on for up to five days with conservative power use, and about a day when almost everything is running.

Elderton is part of a community of do-it-yourself electricians offering the batteries from totalled or end-of-life electric vehicles a second life.

"It's a good feeling not to be buying gas anymore," he told Day 6.

...

Like a cellphone battery, electric vehicle batteries lose capacity as they are charged and discharged. That means less range and more frequent charging — but not that it's necessarily ready for the dump.

"Once the battery degrades to, let's say 20 per cent below its nominal capacity, then you can actually use it, repurpose it for stationary applications," said Trescases. "Then finally [move to] recycling and repurposing."

This year, Nissan began powering streetlights in Japan and a stadium in the Netherlands with customers' used batteries. In 2015, General Motors took on a similar project at their data centre in Michigan.

...

A handful of Canadian companies, including Li-Cycle, say they have developed processes that can mine the valuable — and finite — materials that might otherwise remain locked in depleted lithium-ion batteries.

"The process that we've been developing is able to produce raw material — very pure, so battery-grade material — that we can ship back directly for people that are producing batteries," said Samuel Fournier, head of business development at Montreal-based Lithion Recycling.

Both Li-Cycle and Lithion use a process called hydrometallurgy; after the batteries are mechanically dismantled, solvents are used to separate the essential minerals and metals.

Li-Cycle says their process can recover 80 to 100 per cent of materials, and Lithion claims 95 per cent.

...

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/recycl...pVh-V3H5lCVAHU

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well, you said that there is no such thing as a domestic car but I provided evidence to the contrary...

Anyway, I'm kidding. It's pretty obvious in the North American context, the Big 3 are regarded as 'domestic' even in Canada because of their massive presence here.

Back in the days of the Auto Pact calling American car companies domestic may have had some sense, but those days are long gone. GM, Ford and Chrysler are no more domestic than Google or Wal-Mart or BP, which also have a large Canadian presence.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Back in the days of the Auto Pact calling American car companies domestic may have had some sense, but those days are long gone. GM, Ford and Chrysler are no more domestic than Google or Wal-Mart or BP, which also have a large Canadian presence.

Yes any multi-national, publicly traded company is hard to think of as "belonging" to a particular country. Or even what that means in terms of actual benefits to that country.

Unless we are talking about something like Huawei, national ownership is more of an emotional concept than anything.

[whatnext]

I thought this was an interesting stat:

More Americans Buying Electric Cars Than Manual-Transmission Cars

My mom drove a manual right up until she was 75, but then traded it in for an automatic. One of the reason was none of her friends could drive a stickshift anymore!

[Coldrsx]

My gf wants to get an auto VW Golf 4dr. I like the car, but we simply don't drive and I hate autos.

Hoping to redirect those funds into 2 incredible trips to Scandinavia and SE Asia.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I thought this was an interesting stat:

More Americans Buying Electric Cars Than Manual-Transmission Cars

My mom drove a manual right up until she was 75, but then traded it in for an automatic. One of the reason was none of her friends could drive a stickshift anymore!

It depends on what kind of car it is.

I don't necessarily lament the loss of the stick-shift option on a Camry, SUV (Jeep Wrangler excepted) or truck. They're appliances.

On small cars, they're at least a cost-saving feature and can the best out of a small-displacement engine's power. On sports cars, they make it part of the driving experience.

The auto market in North America is moving away from my interests at breakneck speed, I guess.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes any multi-national, publicly traded company is hard to think of as "belonging" to a particular country. Or even what that means in terms of actual benefits to that country.

Unless we are talking about something like Huawei, national ownership is more of an emotional concept than anything.

That's somewhat true, which is another reason why the whole concept of domestic and import cars is outdated. Especially for Canada, for which the "domestic" companies were never truly domestic in the first place.

That being said, the other side of that argument would be that having major companies headquartered in a country benefits a country more than simply having branches of foreign companies.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Mister F

That's somewhat true, which is another reason why the whole concept of domestic and import cars is outdated. Especially for Canada, for which the "domestic" companies were never truly domestic in the first place.

That being said, the other side of that argument would be that having major companies headquartered in a country benefits a country more than simply having branches of foreign companies.

Head office accounts for a bit I'm sure. The average $30k new car is about $5k of parts from around the world, about $3-5k in labour (including benefits) and the rest is deploying fixed assets like factories, and marketing, along with profit margins.

You can see why factory decisions are so big.

The most "American" company by far is probably Tesla, because they also employ a lot of higher paid software engineers that generate a big part of their revenue. Things will change as they start to manufacture around the world.

[whatnext]

The electric car seems popular:

Federal electric-car rebate uses nearly half its 3-year budget in 8 months

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton gets one step closer to open parking!

[ssiguy]

One of the problems that all the big auto companies have, and one of the primary reasons why they have not gotten more EVs on the road while Tesla sales soar, is due to a genuine fear of how it will effect their revenue.

When people think of car manufacturers they automatically think of revenue being from basically just car sales but their second biggest source ,even ahead of financing, is parts and service. Repairs, parts, and general maintenance are a huge section of their revenue and one of it's most reliable and EVs are bad news in this regard. EVs don't require oil changes, as much regular maintenance, and have a fraction the number of actual parts so there are far fewer things that can go wrong and/or need replaced.

Tesla, due to being very new to the game and only producing EVs, doesn't have this huge infrastructure in place to maintain and it doesn't rely on it near as much for their current revenues. Except for Tesla, all our automakers {both foreign and domestic} have a business model and infrastructure based on an internal combustion engine and the transition will not be as smooth as many think and could easily result in a few of the larger makers to go under and offer more opportunity for new EV manufacturers.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

One of the problems that all the big auto companies have, and one of the primary reasons why they have not gotten more EVs on the road while Tesla sales soar, is due to a genuine fear of how it will effect their revenue.

When people think of car manufacturers they automatically think of revenue being from basically just car sales but their second biggest source ,even ahead of financing, is parts and service. Repairs, parts, and general maintenance are a huge section of their revenue and one of it's most reliable and EVs are bad news in this regard. EVs don't require oil changes, as much regular maintenance, and have a fraction the number of actual parts so there are far fewer things that can go wrong and/or need replaced.

Tesla, due to being very new to the game and only producing EVs, doesn't have this huge infrastructure in place to maintain and it doesn't rely on it near as much for their current revenues. Except for Tesla, all our automakers {both foreign and domestic} have a business model and infrastructure based on an internal combustion engine and the transition will not be as smooth as many think and could easily result in a few of the larger makers to go under and offer more opportunity for new EV manufacturers.

The word "effect" is usually used as a noun; but the word you are looking for is "affect", usually a verb. You may think of the noun "effect" as the recipient of the verb "affect".

I think it's possible for Tesla to succeed based on owner loyalty, and it's just as likely for major manufacturers to fail as for Tesla to succeed.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

One of the problems that all the big auto companies have, and one of the primary reasons why they have not gotten more EVs on the road while Tesla sales soar, is due to a genuine fear of how it will effect their revenue.

When people think of car manufacturers they automatically think of revenue being from basically just car sales but their second biggest source ,even ahead of financing, is parts and service. Repairs, parts, and general maintenance are a huge section of their revenue and one of it's most reliable and EVs are bad news in this regard. EVs don't require oil changes, as much regular maintenance, and have a fraction the number of actual parts so there are far fewer things that can go wrong and/or need replaced.

Tesla, due to being very new to the game and only producing EVs, doesn't have this huge infrastructure in place to maintain and it doesn't rely on it near as much for their current revenues. Except for Tesla, all our automakers {both foreign and domestic} have a business model and infrastructure based on an internal combustion engine and the transition will not be as smooth as many think and could easily result in a few of the larger makers to go under and offer more opportunity for new EV manufacturers.

Do car manufacturers actually profit on maintenance? I thought it was just the dealers, who are on their way out anyways.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I thought this was an interesting stat:

More Americans Buying Electric Cars Than Manual-Transmission Cars

My mom drove a manual right up until she was 75, but then traded it in for an automatic. One of the reason was none of her friends could drive a stickshift anymore!

I'm part of the 1.1% and proud. It is a very useful skill to have and if you travel outside of North America and want to rent a car your costs are higher with an automatic.

I'm going to have the opportunity in a couple of months to drive one of these for a weekend.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46529088@N05/35852515273

and apparently it is a manual. I gather it is a column mounted shifter which I've never used (the old 'three on a tree'). Any tips.

It would be interesting to see similar manual #'s for europe. I would think at least 70%

[harls]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

I'm part of the 1.1% and proud. It is a very useful skill to have and if you travel outside of North America and want to rent a car your costs are higher with an automatic.

I'm going to have the opportunity in a couple of months to drive one of these for a weekend.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46529088@N05/35852515273

and apparently it is a manual. I gather it is a column mounted shifter which I've never used (the old 'three on a tree'). Any tips.

It would be interesting to see similar manual #'s for europe. I would think at least 70%

My next car is going to be a manual. A big part of that decision is to teach my now 12-year-old how to drive a stick when he gets his license.

[Acajack]

I know it's low but I am surprised manual sales are that low, even in the U.S.

This must also be a difference between Canada and the U.S., because although it's definitely a small minority here as well, I'd estimate that probably around 10% of the cars on the road that I am aware of (friends, family, acquaintances) are manuals.

[drew]

Originally Posted by harls

My next car is going to be a manual. A big part of that decision is to teach my now 12-year-old how to drive a stick when he gets his license.

I want my kids to learn manual as well - might even force them to take their drivers test on it like I had to..!

We always have one manual trans. car on the road. It does force you to be a better driver, and as mentioned above - once you get out of North America - its almost a required skill to have.

Best part might be the theft deterrent. None of the car thief's around here can drive stick - so there really isn't any chance it will ever get stolen.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

I'm part of the 1.1% and proud. It is a very useful skill to have and if you travel outside of North America and want to rent a car your costs are higher with an automatic.

I'm going to have the opportunity in a couple of months to drive one of these for a weekend.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46529088@N05/35852515273

and apparently it is a manual. I gather it is a column mounted shifter which I've never used (the old 'three on a tree'). Any tips.

It would be interesting to see similar manual #'s for europe. I would think at least 70%

I think these had a 'four on the tree'? Haven't driven one of those, but driving a column shifted 3-speed manual is quite simple once you get a hang of the gear pattern (as long as there isn't a lot of slop in the bushings, which could cause the shifter to bind up when well worn).

The only advice I can give is to make sure you are comfortable with the shift pattern before you start to drive, so you won't have any missed shifts when you are driving. Otherwise, drive the same as a usual manual and enjoy!

[Innsertnamehere]

I would be surprised if it’s 10% in Canada, even if it’s higher than the US. Reality is very few cars are stuck shift.

I’ve never actually learned how to drive stick simply by lack of cars to learn on. Only person I know with a stick is my cousin who has a (quite expensive) Camaro that I wouldn’t want to go learning on.

[niwell]

I have a weird habit of glancing into parked cars as I walk down the street (when there's street parking) to see if they are manual or automatic. I'd say that in my area of Toronto it's probably around 10%, but skews lower in more suburban areas. Generally areas with a higher proportion of smaller cars seem to have more that are manual.

Count me in on the camp that will be pushing for one if/when we end up needing a car. Very useful overseas where even bigger vehicles seem to be predominantly manual transmission.