Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals

[Urban recluse]

So tired of hearing about green space. There is enough around.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I can think of many more appropriate places for mini wildlife exhibits. The zoo maybe.

The opportunity to redefine urban living in Winnipeg and add thousands of new residents to downtown is far more attractive than a wetland in the centre of the city to me. Downtown needs people. Urban parkspace of any kind is wasted without people to use it. The Forks open space (plus Bonycastle park, Stephen Juba Park and Upper Fort Garry Park) is more than sufficient.

And wouldn't those thousands of new residents and their condos have a much more effective impact if they were located on the numerous empty parking lots flooding the south portage area? Look, I understand the urge to fill up every empty space and crevice with shiny new high rises, but all that charm that comes with the big city concrete jungle quickly becomes unlivable if you don't have some natural space around you to retreat to (and vice versa to a tiny extent).

I don't think you understand just how powerful of a force urban parkspace can have on an area's livability. Take Vancouver's downtown peninsula as an example. It's quite likely the most densely populated and built up neighborhood in N. America, yet it's also considered to be one of the most livable at the same time. One of the biggest reasons it's able get away with this is the fact that right next to it is a nature park nearly as big as the downtown area itself - Stanley Park. Of course, you could imagine just how amazing downtown Vancouver would look like if we simply paved over the park with a wholenother sea of high rises, but you'd do so at the cost of it even being worthwhile for anyone to live there in the first place. The same can be said for central park in Manhattan. Can you even comprehend all the brand new slick skyscrapers we could add to New York's skyline if it weren't for that damn giant green rectangle hogging up all that space in the middle of the island?

[trueviking]

Trust me. I get it. It's the whole point. Using the natural attraction and livability of the green space at the Forks to create an urban neighbourhood. We completely agree. It's what makes the opportunity so great.

Do you know the difference between New York, Vancouver and Winnipeg? Density.

The Forks is a large enough green space (along with all the other parks I mentioned) to achieve what you are talking about. Have you ever been to Bonnycastle Park? Probably not. Nobody has. But it's beautiful. How about Upper Fort Garry park. Ever seen anyone in there?

We don't need more green space downtown to be a catalyst for population growth. We need population growth to fill all the green space we have.

The Forks is a very unique opportunity. A lot of people will live there that would not otherwise choose to live two blocks away at SkyCity. The developers lining up to develop there understand this. It is a market that is not available in the rest of downtown. If they cancelled Railside all those developers wouldn't start looking for parking lots across the tracks to fill. The attraction to them. The catalyst. Is that it is at the Forks. The same attraction that will bring buyers for their units.

The green space at the Forks is disconnected from the city. The only way to engage it is to bring the city to the Forks.

Why can't the Forks be what it is. Why would it be better if it was bigger? Has anyone ever thought the Forks isn't big enough? The Forks itself wants to have people living there to make the market sustainable and bring people there permanently instead of being a drive up destination.

I share your dream of filling all the parking lots downtown but I don't think putting a forest in the parking lots at the Forks will help achieve that. I do think that 1000 people living at the Forks, many of which would otherwise be living in the suburbs, is a greater catalyst for filling those other lots. People don't live downtown because nobody lives downtown. Not because there's not enough parks.

This is an opportunity to redefine urban living in winnnipeg that can not be achieved in the Exchange or in a tower on a parking lot. It could make people think urban living is attractive. The existing park space is the catalyst for that. We don't need more. We need to exploit that catalyst. Just like they did in New York.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by biguc

I don't know why you think we aren't taking the Exchange seriously, anyway. Calvary Temple's bulldozers and ceaseless thirst for parking present far more of a threat to it than residential developments in a different neighborhood.

Don't worry I'm not talking about you. You guys are cool. I mean the city in general and it's chronic lack of vision.

And I wouldn't be too worried about the Calvary temple just yet. The most recent building they tore down was an unremarkable piece of junk from the very start. All this extra bloated parking lot means is just another potential spot for a shiny new development in the future.

[biguc]

It wasn't a remarkable building, but it was a building occupied by a business that no longer exists in downtown. Any building is better than no building. If our parking lots turned into favellas overnight I'd call that a win. But, like Curmudgeon said in the general construction thread, the obsession with parking here is pathological.

Anyway, the city's lack of vision is something we can all agree on, even if we don't share our own particular visions for Winnipeg. This city is about 50 years deep in an existential crisis where it's not even sure it wants to be a city, and has been pretty much actively working against its very being.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by biguc

Any building is better than no building.

We'll have to remember that one next time Earls comes to the table...

[balletomane]

Winnipeg's downtown definitely has enough greenspace for the population. The issue with The Forks is that it is relatively disconnected from the rest of Downtown and almost invisible even if you're on Main. Sure you can go build some residential units over there and bring the people to the parks, but that still won't do much for the downtown resident living over by Central Park, which is essentially a soccer field and spray park. I'd love to see some shiny, low to mid-rise buildings rise on Parcel 4, but I would be focused on trying increase the overall connectivity The Forks has with the rest of downtown.

[Urban recluse]

Ballet, there is much to be achieved downtown. It is still overwhelming in terms of what downtown needs.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Ballet, there is much to be achieved downtown. It is still overwhelming in terms of what downtown needs.

It's equally overwhelming in what has happened. The downtown population has surged. Progress is worth recognizing.

[Urban recluse]

Not really, as the number of surface lots has not been reduced by much.

Albert Street, which should be a bustling destination, is still a dead zone, as are most streets in the Exchange.

Main Street still remains a great example of urban blight.

Plenty of gaps all over downtown needing to be filled.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

Don't worry I'm not talking about you. You guys are cool. I mean the city in general and it's chronic lack of vision.

And I wouldn't be too worried about the Calvary temple just yet. The most recent building they tore down was an unremarkable piece of junk from the very start. All this extra bloated parking lot means is just another potential spot for a shiny new development in the future.

Ha ha. Yes. Winnipeg is truly the city of opportunity then. Same argument was used to demolish the McIntyre building at Portage and Main 40 years ago. You know. That gravel parking lot.

The three buildings they tore down were the perfect low rent type of commercial space that provide opportunity for local business and create amenities for urban living. It is a complete fallacy that urban renewal is about shiny new developments. It is far from it.

No shiny new development is more likely because there is no building anymore. Instead the property owners will rake in cash, pay almost no taxes and have zero incentive to search for a higher use. Leaving us with a destroyed streetscape for decades to come.

[1ajs]

hows the forks compare to the size of central park in ny

[Urban recluse]

Great cities all over have neighborhoods with the necessary mixture of spaces that make them vibrant.

[Urban recluse]

Based on the conceptions, this development will be done right.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by biguc

But, like Curmudgeon said in the general construction thread, the obsession with parking here is pathological.

Not like a sophisticated city such as New York, e.g. you'd hardly expect there to be any Seinfeld plots that revolved solely around an "obsession with parking".

Obviously people are going to have to be able to park if there is going to be a viable downtown. And retail is going to have a hard time succeeding if it is competing against free-parking alternatives elsewhere. These seem to me to be facts that can't be wished away.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

hows the forks compare to the size of central park in ny

It's about a fifth of the size. That's just my rough guess from looking at Google Earth.

[GreyGarden]

Reading these comments as a 21 year old I'd love to be able to go back in time and see what Calgary, Edmonton and obviously Toronto/Montreal were like at 800,000 people (not suggesting we are going to be like these cities), but I wonder if at that point in their history they were struggling with some of the same urban issues we are. To keep it on topic I'm quite optimistic about this project seeing as the forks has demonstrated pretty good vision lately, I kind of trust them. I could also totality see the Forks being a future home, fingers crossed.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

Reading these comments as a 21 year old I'd love to be able to go back in time and see what Calgary, Edmonton and obviously Toronto/Montreal were like at 800,000 people (not suggesting we are going to be like these cities), but I wonder if at that point in their history they were struggling with some of the same urban issues we are. To keep it on topic I'm quite optimistic about this project seeing as the forks has demonstrated pretty good vision lately, I kind of trust them. I could also totality see the Forks being a future home, fingers crossed.

Future home indeed , if they don't price units out of everyone's range or build a seniors theme park essentially. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be good to have a few senior citizens living in the new development, but I'm afraid that the forks might end up with a bunch of people who will complain about the noise at 9 pm on a weekend and won't do anything to support the retail units in their building. Fingers crossed that they don't market units to the 55 plus suburban crowd.

[lilwayne]

people are being far to harsh when describing our downtown. Sure it has its desolate, run down parts but overall its a major improvement from what it was in 2003.

they've added

mts center
millennium library park
shaw park
U of W has added new buildings to its campus, and redeveloped some of thier older buildings
mb hydro bldg.
alt hotel
glasshouse condos
d condos
heritage landing
true north square
waterfront drive redevelopment
restored older buildings in the exchange
upgraded exchange district public spaces
redeveloped Canada post building
possibly adding sky city condos
true north square
provencher pedestrian bridge (looks nice)
Canadian human rights museum
central park redevelopment
red river dt campus upgrades and redevelopments (possibly adding another 90 million dollar facility)


r downtown is going to be nicer than every other downtown in Canada soon I promise you its not going to be this big concrete jungle like it is in Toronto and Calgary.. r downtown is so diverse from one district to the other its going to be amazing once everything is completed. the only blight is portage place I hope they tear that mall down


our downtown was a shit hole beyond shit holes just 13 years ago...

[balletomane]

Perhaps I seemed naive or under appreciative of the progress made downtown in my above post. I think the development downtown over the past decade or so is absolutely amazing. Winnipeg at the turn of the millennium would've believed that the city was headed for a very uncertain and desolate future, a lot needs to be done, but downtown is completely changed from what it was in 2000.
I would say that downtown is still very disconnected, but that will improve in the coming decade(s), and that is also not the fault of city planners or development. Downtown Winnipeg has a very large footprint for a city of its size, so increasing overall connectivity will take time.