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  #441  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2014, 7:25 PM
Wayward Memphian Wayward Memphian is offline
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Birmingham's Bowl attendance:

December 23, 2006 South Florida 24 East Carolina 7 32,023 notes
December 22, 2007 Cincinnati 31 Southern Miss 21 35,258 notes
December 29, 2008 Rutgers 29 NC State 23 38,582 notes
January 2, 2010 Connecticut 20 South Carolina 7 45,254 notes
January 8, 2011 Pittsburgh 27 Kentucky 10 41,207 notes
January 7, 2012 SMU 28 Pittsburgh 6 29,726 notes
January 5, 2013 Ole Miss 38 Pittsburgh 17 59,326 notes
January 4, 2014 Vanderbilt 41 Houston 24 42,717 notes


Outside of Hugh Freeze's surprise first season success that had the faithful with bowl cuts over in droves, you can't justify going over 55,000 (how many of those Ole Miss fans actually stayed in Birmingham for one night let alone two) So... it's really the Magic City Classic that may ever really go over 60,000. Ask those teams if they would like to play in a smaller but more capable facility for generating revenues that's more protected from the elements and I bet they won't have an issue.

What some of you need to do is research the soccer stadiums in Europe to see how a 50 to 55 thousand seat facility can be pulled off and how impressive it can be. I'd place it by the convention center and also market it as exhibit space.

Last edited by Wayward Memphian; Jul 2, 2014 at 7:37 PM.
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  #442  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2014, 4:21 AM
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There's nothing wrong with impressively filling up a 55K stadium, no one is arguing against that. What we find short-sighted is building a facility that is sure to succeed only in the very near term (stadiums these days are meant to last 30 - 40 years).

Wayward, the example you post above was a very poor one... what you just showed were figures that prove a point, that Birmingham's bowl attendance is good. During each year in which the SEC had a participant in the bowl game in Birmingham attendance was been over 40,000. Since the SEC expanded, attendance has been over 42,000, and because of expansion it is MUCH more likely that an SEC team will be featured each year. If you want to use the "how much of the capacity was filled" argument, you should probably check and see how much capacity has been filled by each of the BCS games recently... not all of them have been full.

You know, it also stands to reason that a nicer facility in a nicer/safer part of town would increase attendance. Yes, this newer facility would be in a MUCH nicer/safer part of town.

Btw, next time you don't want to start a riot, you probably shouldn't say something as inflammatory or demeaning as How in the world would Birmingham outgrow 55,000? We all understand you're trying to be constructive, but it doesn't help when your initial comment is offensive.
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  #443  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2014, 12:54 PM
Wayward Memphian Wayward Memphian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tascalisa View Post
There's nothing wrong with impressively filling up a 55K stadium, no one is arguing against that. What we find short-sighted is building a facility that is sure to succeed only in the very near term (stadiums these days are meant to last 30 - 40 years).

Wayward, the example you post above was a very poor one... what you just showed were figures that prove a point, that Birmingham's bowl attendance is good. During each year in which the SEC had a participant in the bowl game in Birmingham attendance was been over 40,000. Since the SEC expanded, attendance has been over 42,000, and because of expansion it is MUCH more likely that an SEC team will be featured each year. If you want to use the "how much of the capacity was filled" argument, you should probably check and see how much capacity has been filled by each of the BCS games recently... not all of them have been full.

You know, it also stands to reason that a nicer facility in a nicer/safer part of town would increase attendance. Yes, this newer facility would be in a MUCH nicer/safer part of town.

Btw, next time you don't want to start a riot, you probably shouldn't say something as inflammatory or demeaning as How in the world would Birmingham outgrow 55,000? We all understand you're trying to be constructive, but it doesn't help when your initial comment is offensive.
You don't need it. If that's insulting, so be it. I've looked at the Liberty Bowl numbers as well. When an SEC plays in the Liberty Bowl. The attendance rises as well but it's only reached nearly completely full 2 or 3 times and that involved teams from next door with MSU and Arkansas drawing over 60,000. Both teams coming off a rough patch with optimism about the future success of the teams and not a team that at the time that was disappointed in the season just like Ole Miss was and look how closer that campus is to Birmingham. I feel the same about Memphis as you do about Birmingham and I've always advocated a new stadium off Beale that is SMALLER than the Liberty Bowl, somewhere between 55 and 60 thousand with 55 being best in my book. There is something to be said for an amenity filled smaller stadium that helps makes tickets worth more. It's like swanky condos in new skyscrapers that one can entertain friends in on weekends and the spec house in the burbs that's got tons of space like that dining room used once a year. Which one usually sells for more per square ft.
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  #444  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2014, 4:19 PM
Tourian Tourian is offline
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Originally Posted by arkitekte View Post
Facts and attendance show that people go to the Compass Bowl, Magic City Classic, and not UAB football games. I'd like to see the facts that say that a 55K "expandable" domed stadium (which structurally would be a nightmare) is needed. Is revenue from just the Compass Bowl and a Classic game going to pay for a new stadium? I seriously doubt it. I also doubt that Bama or Auburn want to sacrifice a home game to play in Birmingham, especially when one would be sacrificing roughly 50K seats and the other 30K.
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Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian View Post
You don't need it. If that's insulting, so be it.
It is funny how you make the point about "where people would rather go" but want to ignore that when people here are making the same argument. Legion Field is old, not pretty to look at and not in a good neighborhood. This facility would be built in a better neighborhood with 2 good hotels nearby (and maybe a 3rd) with a thriving entertainment district (its just restaurants right now, but there are plans for more phases). Attendance will increase because of this. So that is why building a facility that is barely enough for the events we already have, and too small for one we have now, and too small for events we are chasing after is not all that appealing.

They have said 45-55K. Not definitely 55k. I say 55k is the bare minimum. People from Memphis (and Atlanta) want to tell us we don't need, can't pay for it, can't use it and won't ever have any need for anything larger. That's why you are getting the pushback. You don't have all the facts and/or are selectively ignoring the ones that don't fit your narrative. You are hypocritical when you talk about people would rather go to a swanky stadium in an entertainment district in Memphis, but just want to examine cold numbers with no thought processes about how they could be improved when you compare what Legion Field is to what the multidome will be. In short, you just don't know what you are talking about and just come off as some out of town snob that doesn't want to see a rival city improve itself in any shape form or fashion.
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  #445  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2014, 5:38 PM
Wayward Memphian Wayward Memphian is offline
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I don't live in Memphis and haven't since 1991. I just know the fates or pending fates of the old large city stadiums that are not on a college campus of an SEC school. I know that with exception of the largest of cities that stadiums larger than 65 to 70 thousand are not advisable and that's NFL towns like Nashville, Cincinnati and so on. Atlanta could fill a new stadium of a 100,000 for the SEC Championship but they dare not go over 80,000 by much and that's a booming town with an NFL team. Why some in Birmingham thinks a stadium the size of most mid and smaller market NFL teams is wise is beyond me. I think of the Alamo dome in San Antonio as the perfect oops it's too big blunder. Truth be told the new Cowboys stadium really only seats 80 thousand, that 100,000 figure Jerry throws around includes all kinds of SRO numbers. Most SEC ADS will tell you the money is in the suites and premium seating not size. I seem to remember Saban asking folks to stick around last season cause those sold empties look bad l. Most schools are now doing survey after survey to ask for game day enhancements to make sure they fill their overbuilt stadiums and enflated ticket prices because watching it on a hd 70 in tv set with great wifi service is so much cheaper.
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  #446  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2014, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
It is funny how you make the point about "where people would rather go" but want to ignore that when people here are making the same argument. Legion Field is old, not pretty to look at and not in a good neighborhood. This facility would be built in a better neighborhood with 2 good hotels nearby (and maybe a 3rd) with a thriving entertainment district (its just restaurants right now, but there are plans for more phases). Attendance will increase because of this. So that is why building a facility that is barely enough for the events we already have, and too small for one we have now, and too small for events we are chasing after is not all that appealing.
Was this directed at me? What I meant by Bama and Auburn not wanting to play in Birmingham was solely based on how much less money each school would make by sacrificing thousands of seats. I wasn't implying they wouldn't want to play in Birmingham because of Legion Fields condition (don't believe that excuse when it's thrown out by the schools, it's all about money) or because of the neighborhood or the city. I'm fairly certain Bama and Auburn would play the Iron Bowl in hell if they could make money on it.
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  #447  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2014, 2:02 AM
Wayward Memphian Wayward Memphian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkitekte View Post
Was this directed at me? What I meant by Bama and Auburn not wanting to play in Birmingham was solely based on how much less money each school would make by sacrificing thousands of seats. I wasn't implying they wouldn't want to play in Birmingham because of Legion Fields condition (don't believe that excuse when it's thrown out by the schools, it's all about money) or because of the neighborhood or the city. I'm fairly certain Bama and Auburn would play the Iron Bowl in hell if they could make money on it.
It's the same reason why Little Rock is down to one Arkansas Razorback game and when the university fills in the north end zone in Fayetteville with suites and club seating, they'll be none.
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  #448  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2014, 3:13 AM
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Guys, this is getting really old. This is no longer a constructive conversation.

As the creator of this thread, I respectfully ask that this argument end.

I am not requesting this as a sign of surrender, but because this entire conversation is entirely unproductive. If people want to argue why Birmingham cannot outgrow a 55K facility, they should be presenting reasons as to why a 55K facility is a perfect fit, not why the city could never outgrow one of that size. Otherwise, there is no reason why Central Alabama residents shouldn't discuss all potential options.
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  #449  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2014, 5:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tascalisa View Post
Guys, this is getting really old. This is no longer a constructive conversation.

As the creator of this thread, I respectfully ask that this argument end.

I am not requesting this as a sign of surrender, but because this entire conversation is entirely unproductive. If people want to argue why Birmingham cannot outgrow a 55K facility, they should be presenting reasons as to why a 55K facility is a perfect fit, not why the city could never outgrow one of that size. Otherwise, there is no reason why Central Alabama residents shouldn't discuss all potential options.
Is it unproductive because you don't agree with it? It's been stated why a 55K stadium is the right fit, maybe not how you expected it to be presented, but it was presented.
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  #450  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2014, 4:17 AM
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Is it unproductive because you don't agree with it? It's been stated why a 55K stadium is the right fit, maybe not how you expected it to be presented, but it was presented.
There were no arguments given that were either 1) constructive, or 2) that presented a preponderance of evidence as to why a 55K facility would be the perfect fit (a statement that 55K is the perfect fit is not proper evidence).

Again, as the creator of this thread, I ask that this argument/conversation end. It is not productive, not even in the slightest.
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Last edited by SpawnOfVulcan; Jul 5, 2014 at 4:52 AM. Reason: edited the "either" part, the newer version just sounded better
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  #451  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2014, 7:40 PM
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I was in town the other day and took a few pictures at Railroad Park. Drove around town and, as expected, there was a good bit of construction activity around Railroad Park. The Rotary Park/Trail still has fresh dirt upturned. Tower cranes at UAB for the new student center and new dorm, didn't drive by, though. Sadly, I didn't see any activity around the site of the tower in The Highlands.





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  #452  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2014, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tascalisa View Post
I was in town the other day and took a few pictures at Railroad Park. Drove around town and, as expected, there was a good bit of construction activity around Railroad Park. The Rotary Park/Trail still has fresh dirt upturned. Tower cranes at UAB for the new student center and new dorm, didn't drive by, though. Sadly, I didn't see any activity around the site of the tower in The Highlands.





Great pictures!!!!!
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  #453  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 3:10 AM
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Construction on the new 15 story tower is slated to break ground in 2 months. They did a complete replanning of the ground floor facilities at the last minute.
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  #454  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 2:28 PM
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^ thanks for the update. glad it's still moving forward, then. where'd you hear this?
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  #455  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 7:56 PM
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very preliminary at this point, but it looks like the powell avenue steam plant may become some type of venue:

http://powellsteamplant.com/
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  #456  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 7:57 PM
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Thanks for the update jslaughter!


'New venue for new era': Alabama Power Railroad Park area steam plant to bring Birmingham a new kind of energy


Joseph D. Bryant
Birmingham News
July 9, 2014
LINK

Quote:
For more than 100 years the Powell Avenue steam plant served a major source of energy for Birmingham.

Now leaders at Alabama Power Company want to use the historic building to generate new civic and cultural energy.

Alabama Power President Mark Crosswhite this afternoon announced the company's plan to redevelop the former industrial plan into an entertainment and cultural center just across from Railroad Park and near the upcoming Rotary Trail.

"Lately we've been thinking a lot about the future of Powell Avenue," Crosswhite told the Birmingham Rotary Club.

That vision could include restaurants, entertainment space and a possible museum at the site.
....................
Well, we've finally found out what Alabama Power is planning to do with the property they bought up next to the steam plant and Railroad Park. I was kinda iffy about this idea until I looked through the website they created for this concept: powersteamplant.com

That website has a good video at the bottom showing what they want to do. I'm pretty impressed, it looks like it will create a better link between Railroad Park and the Rotary Trail. I'm loving the rooftop idea. Looks like it would be a great place to have dinner in the evening.

I think the video I mentioned above does a better job illustrating what they want to do, but below are some pictures from the AL.com story I posted above.









BTW, here's a screen capture from Google Maps of downtown. The red square is the steam plant and the parking lot that will become the plaza type part of the project. The yellow star is where the Rotary Trail begins. And yes, I did this in paint.

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  #457  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 8:00 PM
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^ thanks for the update. glad it's still moving forward, then. where'd you hear this?
It was in a news article on the bbj about a month ago. They have already bought the land around the building for the project. They are just finalizing plans. Also whats up with the Jefferson Tower?
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  #458  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 8:07 PM
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^ thanks for the update. glad it's still moving forward, then. where'd you hear this?
http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingha...lion-will.html
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  #459  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 9:18 PM
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definitely loving the possibilities for this venue. just replacing all the bricked-up openings with windows makes a huge difference. this thing has so much potential.

*edit*

nice work on the map, tasc! I use MS paint for this kind of thing all the time lol. glad google maps finally updated so you can see regions field completed!
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  #460  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 10:36 PM
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What a slick presentation those slides and video provide. That steam plant makes for an awesome venue. Alabama Power stepped up.
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