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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 6:12 AM
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{SA} 200 Million Dollar East/West Parkway Proposed for Far North Side

  • Will connect 10 with 281
  • It would be similar to Wurzbach Parkway
  • Could begin construction in 2010


Quote:
Proposed Road Project Would Connect I-10, Highway 281

POSTED: 8:52 pm CDT September 24, 2008

SAN ANTONIO -- If approved by county commissioners, a new road project designed to alleviate traffic congestion north of Loop 1604 between Interstate 10 and Highway 281 could begin by 2010 -- and it wouldn't be a toll road.

Company officials involved with the project tell KSAT 12 News they want to build an east-west parkway that would stretch from Interstate 10 between La Cantera Parkway and Camp Bullis Road to Highway 281 and Redland Road.

The construction of the road, which is also expected to connect Huebner Road to Highway 281, has been praised by a high-ranking Camp Bullis official for potentially limiting development near the military installation located near Loop 1604 and Interstate 10. In a letter dated Monday and addressed to San Antonio Mayor Phil Hardberger and Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff by Maj. Gen. Richard Czerw, he wrote, "This entire project appears to be a very positive initiative in terms of Camp Bullis."

Czerw is the commanding general of Fort Sam Houston, which runs Camp Bullis.

The projected six-and-a-half mile road would have sound barriers set up for the installation, and also include connecting roads to decrease congestion in the Stone Oak, Sonterra and Hardy Oak areas.

Harry Jewitt Associates, HTNB, Earl and Associates and the Yantis Company are all part of the project, according to sources close to the project.

The proposal calls for a public-private partnership to set the project in motion, the source said.
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 1:22 PM
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sounds like the public will be giving the wealthy a handout here.

i don't know if i like this. hundreds of thousands of people move into an area that was not designed to hold them, gripe about how terrible traffic is, and then get a new highway built for them.

all this will do, without proper growth controls, is allow that many more people to justify moving out there, creating worse traffic and more griping.

i am now going to Jim's to have coffee and grumble.
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 2:04 PM
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How about spend the money on putting rail in the middle section of 1604 before they decide to use that space for adding more lanes to the road?
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  #4  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakyle04 View Post
sounds like the public will be giving the wealthy a handout here.

i don't know if i like this. hundreds of thousands of people move into an area that was not designed to hold them, gripe about how terrible traffic is, and then get a new highway built for them.

all this will do, without proper growth controls, is allow that many more people to justify moving out there, creating worse traffic and more griping.

i am now going to Jim's to have coffee and grumble.
Amen. I agree with every word you said. Its time to stop acting like cowed parents rewarding the temper tantrums of whiny spoiled brats.

I too would go to Jim's, if they were in Kansas City
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 3:13 PM
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Originally Posted by oldmanshirt View Post
Amen. I agree with every word you said. Its time to stop acting like cowed parents rewarding the temper tantrums of whiny spoiled brats.

I too would go to Jim's, if they were in Kansas City
you can be an honorary "Crusty Old Grumbling San Antonian Drinking Coffee at Jim's"...
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 3:13 PM
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Quote:
Proposed Road Project Would Connect I-10, Highway 281

POSTED: 8:52 pm CDT September 24, 2008

SAN ANTONIO
The construction of the road, which is also expected to connect Huebner Road to Highway 281, has been praised by a high-ranking Camp Bullis official for potentially limiting development near the military installation located near Loop 1604 and Interstate 10. In a letter dated Monday and addressed to San Antonio Mayor Phil Hardberger and Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff by Maj. Gen. Richard Czerw, he wrote, "This entire project appears to be a very positive initiative in terms of Camp Bullis."
So alleviating traffic congestion is helpful to potentially limiting development? Lets see what First American Commercial Property Group has to say about traffic congestion in a report done about traffic on 281:

..."Traffic congestion is an important factor in the perceived desirability of living in various areas."
..."The 281 north area is in very high demand; however, the amount of traffic you’d have to put up with by living out there is not. Now imagine if there was no congestion, the demand and value would skyrocket."
..."Also, by increasing accessibility, and improving linkages throughout the city, builders, developers, corporations and other business entities will be more willing to locate here."
..."In conclusion, the greater proportion of inter-corridor activity only helps stimulate all aspects of economic activity across a broad spectrum of industries, further allowing the growth of this far north central sector and promoting more overall development."

I know this talking about 281, but it goes for alleviating traffic congestion in general.

Quote:
"This entire project appears to be a very positive initiative in terms of Camp Bullis."
????
Boy, they really have no clue.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by miaht82 View Post
I know this talking about 281, but it goes for alleviating traffic congestion in general.

"This entire project appears to be a very positive initiative in terms of Camp Bullis."

????
Boy, they really have no clue.
welcome to the club miaht82...

we'll make you the treasurer. oldmanshirt can be the president-at-large. i'll be the vice president and chief grumbling officer.

Crusty Old Grumbling San Antonian Drinking Coffee at Jim's Association
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 3:25 PM
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UGH.

I remember the outrage of the inner-ring neighborhoods (especially Government Hill and Tobin Hill -- Dignowity Hill was not polled due to war zone status) over the Wurzbach Parkway being a giveaway and now this?

Oh, San Antonio just keeps getting better and better.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 3:49 PM
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Stop the insanity San Antonio. Charge it to the folks living in that area of the city. Time to start putting money into a real comprehensive transportation program. Time to start acting like the big city you think you are.
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sakyle04 View Post
oldmanshirt can be the president-at-large.

Crusty Old Grumbling San Antonian Drinking Coffee at Jim's Association
Thanks kyle, I accept

First meeting will be held Sept. 31st at the meeting room of the downtown Days Inn and Suites Eyes Over Texas at the Tower of Americas. Parking: $300


Seriously, though, I can't wait until they build this thing to alleviate congestion in the Northwest (which the 1604 toll road is already supposed to do), then turn around and go "we have no money for Kelly Parkway or rail!" It'll be absolutely flippin' hilarious, in a kind of way.
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Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 4:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago3rd View Post
Stop the insanity San Antonio. Charge it to the folks living in that area of the city. Time to start putting money into a real comprehensive transportation program. Time to start acting like the big city you think you are.
I agree completely. Split it between the people of that area and Camp Bullis; since they think it is such a good idea.

Somehow they will find a way to make everyone pay for it, just like the Dominion/I-10 situation.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 4:28 PM
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Though I agree, 200 million could be spent on something a hell of a lot better and I also think "WTF?" when a Bullis spokesperson says this is a good thing... however, for those who are complaining about the financing, wouldn't a TIFZ (mentioned in the video) be the public source and if so wouldn't that mean the people developing within the TIFZ would be the ones funding it?


If that's the case, well then, about time developers paid for some of the roads around here.

Lastly, maybe we should campaign hard with the county to have them add a light rail line connected to this new Parkway. It would probably be a better line than a 1604 line, imo. The parkway line could then connect with the one currently being proposed (east of 10).
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Lastly, maybe we should campaign hard with the county to have them add a light rail line connected to this new Parkway. It would probably be a better line than a 1604 line, imo. The parkway line could then connect with the one currently being proposed (east of 10).
is intra-exurban rail ever a good idea?

i'll freaking move if they put a LRT line on an exurban parkway before they address all of the more densely populated urban areas.
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  #14  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sakyle04 View Post
is intra-exurban rail ever a good idea?

i'll freaking move if they put a LRT line on an exurban parkway before they address all of the more densely populated urban areas.
I'm said that as an alternative to the 1604 suggestion. I agree that LR lines inside 410 should go first.

However, if they proposed a line that would connect La Cantera/The Rim/UTSA with Stone Oak east to west, you'd say no?

Unless VIA jumps on the bandwagon hard, it'll be a while before LR lines are put inside 410 outside the current line being proposed by the county.
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  #15  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 5:21 PM
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Lightbulb

If VIA jumps on the current proposal to run light rail down the soon to be abandoned UP line north of downtown, I'd like to see them extend the line to the southeast. Then when ASA gets around building the commuter rail line northeast to Austin, extend that line southwest to Kelly AFB.
Then there would be a cross of rail through San Antonio. A rapid bus line west, possibly along US 90, would just about complete a good mass transit system for the city.
TODs will develop along both rail lines, and every corner of the city will be connected by rail. If the light rail proposal is too expensive, consider using the cheaper to implement commuter rail on it too.
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  #16  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 7:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
However, if they proposed a line that would connect La Cantera/The Rim/UTSA with Stone Oak east to west, you'd say no?
I would SHOUT "no".

working LRT requires density or park and ride. you're crazy if you think jane-soccer-mom is going to drive her mercedes to a LRT station, park, unload the kids, and then pay to ride to the Rim.

or utsa.
or la cantera.

i am not even convinced that the Rim/La Cantera area is dense enough for LRT to be useful there. i really think the purpose of it there will be to pick up folks to go downtown. for example, if i want to go to DICK's and Target and Gap, I would either have to walk 8 miles in the blazing sun or have some sort of annoying intra-shopping center conveyance (that happens to cross under I-10).

LRT in stone oak? only as a connector to the med center there and only after a thousand other corridors have been served.

rich people don't get out of their cars. not even for the most convenient rail-system. ask new yorkers.
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  #17  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakyle04 View Post
I would SHOUT "no".

working LRT requires density or park and ride. you're crazy if you think jane-soccer-mom is going to drive her mercedes to a LRT station, park, unload the kids, and then pay to ride to the Rim.

or utsa.
or la cantera.

i am not even convinced that the Rim/La Cantera area is dense enough for LRT to be useful there. i really think the purpose of it there will be to pick up folks to go downtown. for example, if i want to go to DICK's and Target and Gap, I would either have to walk 8 miles in the blazing sun or have some sort of annoying intra-shopping center conveyance (that happens to cross under I-10).

LRT in stone oak? only as a connector to the med center there and only after a thousand other corridors have been served.

rich people don't get out of their cars. not even for the most convenient rail-system. ask new yorkers.
I can somewhat understand your concern, I really can, but I think you're looking at this through a very narrow window. I am all for urban development and building as urban and dense as possible. However, I don't see the big deal with a light rail line next to this Parkway instead of through the median of 1604.

Remember, it'll be a similar parkway as to Wurzbach, which is a hybrid road. It performs like a freeway and not like a busy road with stop lights and intersections.

A line east to west would connect 281 with 10.

It would serve big developments like Ridgewood Park and Agora Palms, run through Stone Oak then go west until it hit the Rim and could then connect to the UP line rail.

Also, not everyone in Stone Oak is "rich." I'm not sure what your definition of rich is but there are middle class families in the greater Stone Oak area, as well as the Encino area east of 281.

You also have to think about people who have to drive to Stone Oak for work. A downtown line that connects to the Parkway line would be used by people going to and coming from Stone Oak. It's a bigger picture issue than a "it's not urban or dense so no" issue. There's a reason the VIA express line from Stone Oak to Downtown is packed every day. People, rich and not rich are getting out of their cars and getting on a bus.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/MYS..._html4895.html

I think the pros out weigh the negatives.

That's just my two cents on the matter.
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  #18  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 9:31 PM
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I agree with you SKW, but I also agree with them.

The density is there for LRT in Stone Oak, and unfortunately, all those people probably work up there as well. So, it you put a LRT system north of 1604 across east/west, it will probably work. As long as the stops are within walking distance of major intersections and major subdivisions.

I would much rather them walk and ride, rather then drive their gas guzzling SUV's two miles.
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  #19  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 10:02 PM
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I love how highway projects get money for massive projects in a flash, but asking for rail funding is like trying to pull someone's brain out through their nose.
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  #20  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 10:17 PM
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umm, wait does anyone realize that Wurzbach parkway is still unfinished? Can we finish that before we build anything North of 1604?
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